Register Groups Members List Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Like Tree1Likes

Forum Home - Go Back > Pow Wow Arena > Men's Dance Styles > Gourd Dance A history of the Gourd Dance. A history of the Gourd Dance.

Reply LinkBack Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 12-05-2004, 09:19 PM   #101
Tiny Tot Dancer
 
User InfoThanks / Tagging InfoGifts / Achievements / AwardsvBActivity Stats
redsky is an unknown quantity at this point
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 28
Credits: 0.00
Savings: 0.00
Zotigh,

Yeah, its been a little boring without your posts.
redsky is offline   Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
Old 08-27-2005, 01:07 AM   #102
Pow Wow Visitor
 
User InfoThanks / Tagging InfoGifts / Achievements / AwardsvBActivity Stats
KiowaFivebabe is an unknown quantity at this point
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 1
Credits: 0.00
Savings: 0.00
Quote:
Originally Posted by miss tradish
I don't see you at black leggins, kiowa gourd clan, etc.

you probably did see me but never paid any attention....but i see people and i've never seen you....
I am also a Kiowa and getting on this forum alittle late, but to answer your question about Scott, he does make it to Blackleggings as much as he can. I have danced and honored him on many occassions at Indian City. I have also seen him dance at the Gourd Clan and was glad to see him participate. But I myself have not participated at Carnegie for years, but do support Mr. Tsoodle and his family in many ways as possible.
KiowaFivebabe is offline   Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
Old 09-20-2005, 03:20 PM   #103
Teen Dancer
 
Camp7Kiowa's Avatar
 
User InfoThanks / Tagging InfoGifts / Achievements / AwardsvBActivity Stats
Camp7Kiowa has a reputation beyond reputeCamp7Kiowa has a reputation beyond reputeCamp7Kiowa has a reputation beyond reputeCamp7Kiowa has a reputation beyond reputeCamp7Kiowa has a reputation beyond reputeCamp7Kiowa has a reputation beyond reputeCamp7Kiowa has a reputation beyond reputeCamp7Kiowa has a reputation beyond reputeCamp7Kiowa has a reputation beyond reputeCamp7Kiowa has a reputation beyond reputeCamp7Kiowa has a reputation beyond reputeCamp7Kiowa has a reputation beyond reputeCamp7Kiowa has a reputation beyond reputeCamp7Kiowa has a reputation beyond reputeCamp7Kiowa has a reputation beyond reputeCamp7Kiowa has a reputation beyond repute
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Oklahoma
Posts: 293
Credits: 0.00
Savings: 0.00
Quote:
Originally Posted by NDNTacO49
My first name begins with a K..... My Family are the Botones
My first name starts with a "M"... I would like to buy a vowel, please! Ay-Nay-Nay-Nay!!!!
Camp7Kiowa is offline   Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
Old 10-05-2005, 12:09 AM   #104
USMC
 
Zotigh's Avatar
 
User InfoThanks / Tagging InfoGifts / Achievements / AwardsvBActivity Stats
Zotigh has a reputation beyond repute
Zotigh has a reputation beyond reputeZotigh has a reputation beyond reputeZotigh has a reputation beyond reputeZotigh has a reputation beyond reputeZotigh has a reputation beyond reputeZotigh has a reputation beyond reputeZotigh has a reputation beyond reputeZotigh has a reputation beyond reputeZotigh has a reputation beyond reputeZotigh has a reputation beyond reputeZotigh has a reputation beyond reputeZotigh has a reputation beyond reputeZotigh has a reputation beyond reputeZotigh has a reputation beyond reputeZotigh has a reputation beyond reputeZotigh has a reputation beyond reputeZotigh has a reputation beyond reputeZotigh has a reputation beyond repute
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Texas
Posts: 358
Credits: 1,588.46
Savings: 1.00
Wikipedia :P

[Edit: This was in reply to "Historian" who was quoting verbatim the Wikipedia entry (www.wikipedia.com) regarding the Kiowa tribe and asking whether his "research" was accurate. His post is now gone...wierd (*cough* moderator power abuse *cough*)..so this post I made now seems out of place.]
__________________
Scott Zotigh
Kiowa Black Leggings
Kiowa Gourd Clan
Kiowa Tiah Piah
Kiowa Marine Veterans
American Indian Veterans


Last edited by Zotigh; 10-06-2005 at 10:18 PM..
Zotigh is offline   Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
Old 10-05-2005, 03:40 AM   #105
USMC
 
Zotigh's Avatar
 
User InfoThanks / Tagging InfoGifts / Achievements / AwardsvBActivity Stats
Zotigh has a reputation beyond repute
Zotigh has a reputation beyond reputeZotigh has a reputation beyond reputeZotigh has a reputation beyond reputeZotigh has a reputation beyond reputeZotigh has a reputation beyond reputeZotigh has a reputation beyond reputeZotigh has a reputation beyond reputeZotigh has a reputation beyond reputeZotigh has a reputation beyond reputeZotigh has a reputation beyond reputeZotigh has a reputation beyond reputeZotigh has a reputation beyond reputeZotigh has a reputation beyond reputeZotigh has a reputation beyond reputeZotigh has a reputation beyond reputeZotigh has a reputation beyond reputeZotigh has a reputation beyond reputeZotigh has a reputation beyond repute
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Texas
Posts: 358
Credits: 1,588.46
Savings: 1.00
Quote:
Originally Posted by http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kiowa
After 1840 the Kiowas joined forces with their former enemies, the Cheyennes, as well as the Comanches and the Apaches, to fight and raid the Eastern natives then moving into the Indian Territory. The United States military intervened, and in the Treaty of Medicine Lodge of 1867 the Kiowa agreed to settle on a reservation in southwestern Oklahoma. Some bands of Kiowas remained at large until...
The "my research.." is what gained you negative respect points, Wikipedia.
__________________
Scott Zotigh
Kiowa Black Leggings
Kiowa Gourd Clan
Kiowa Tiah Piah
Kiowa Marine Veterans
American Indian Veterans


Last edited by Zotigh; 10-05-2005 at 05:14 AM..
Zotigh is offline   Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
Old 10-05-2005, 05:04 AM   #106
USMC
 
Zotigh's Avatar
 
User InfoThanks / Tagging InfoGifts / Achievements / AwardsvBActivity Stats
Zotigh has a reputation beyond repute
Zotigh has a reputation beyond reputeZotigh has a reputation beyond reputeZotigh has a reputation beyond reputeZotigh has a reputation beyond reputeZotigh has a reputation beyond reputeZotigh has a reputation beyond reputeZotigh has a reputation beyond reputeZotigh has a reputation beyond reputeZotigh has a reputation beyond reputeZotigh has a reputation beyond reputeZotigh has a reputation beyond reputeZotigh has a reputation beyond reputeZotigh has a reputation beyond reputeZotigh has a reputation beyond reputeZotigh has a reputation beyond reputeZotigh has a reputation beyond reputeZotigh has a reputation beyond reputeZotigh has a reputation beyond repute
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Texas
Posts: 358
Credits: 1,588.46
Savings: 1.00
www.wikipedia.com is, btw, a great resource of knowledge regarding uncountable topics. A community built encyclopedia, where folks contribute to the entries contained therein. (he actually quoted part of the entry I made...lol).

Just not promoting using entries there as your own "research".

http://www.wikipedia.com
__________________
Scott Zotigh
Kiowa Black Leggings
Kiowa Gourd Clan
Kiowa Tiah Piah
Kiowa Marine Veterans
American Indian Veterans


Last edited by Zotigh; 10-06-2005 at 10:27 PM..
Zotigh is offline   Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
Old 10-05-2005, 09:06 PM   #107
Banned
 
kiowakat's Avatar
 
User InfoThanks / Tagging InfoGifts / Achievements / AwardsvBActivity Stats
kiowakat is a splendid one to beholdkiowakat is a splendid one to beholdkiowakat is a splendid one to beholdkiowakat is a splendid one to behold
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: St.Louis
Posts: 1,240
Credits: 0.00
Savings: 0.00
Smile

Hi Scott
Aho! happy to see you. I haven't talked with you very much I'm still meeting people. I'm glad you are doing better:)...My name is Kathy I am also Kiowa,I'm decendent of Haungooah Silverhorn, also decendent of the Tongkeamha's and Stumblingbear's, I been enjoying you sharing our history, I have nothing to add this subject dang lol, but I wanted to say hi and I have carnegie pictures on my website...I took alot of pictures and I can say that I don't post any pictures that are showing any sacred Kiowa Items!! I respect the Kiowa ways and I also try to teach about tribal identity through my craftwork I hope you enjoy.

p.s. that was a hint to vote for me in th e 2005 craft contest finals.... ayeeeeeeee.....LOL
kiowakat is offline   Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
Old 10-05-2005, 09:32 PM   #108
USMC
 
Zotigh's Avatar
 
User InfoThanks / Tagging InfoGifts / Achievements / AwardsvBActivity Stats
Zotigh has a reputation beyond repute
Zotigh has a reputation beyond reputeZotigh has a reputation beyond reputeZotigh has a reputation beyond reputeZotigh has a reputation beyond reputeZotigh has a reputation beyond reputeZotigh has a reputation beyond reputeZotigh has a reputation beyond reputeZotigh has a reputation beyond reputeZotigh has a reputation beyond reputeZotigh has a reputation beyond reputeZotigh has a reputation beyond reputeZotigh has a reputation beyond reputeZotigh has a reputation beyond reputeZotigh has a reputation beyond reputeZotigh has a reputation beyond reputeZotigh has a reputation beyond reputeZotigh has a reputation beyond reputeZotigh has a reputation beyond repute
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Texas
Posts: 358
Credits: 1,588.46
Savings: 1.00
Hey! Nice to meet you, ma'am!

I'm looking at your site right now. WOW! Awesome!!

Made me stand up when I first got in there, though! :D

The drawings your grandfather made have facinated me since I was young. I've looked at them for hours and hours.

Thank you for sharing your site, Kathy.
__________________
Scott Zotigh
Kiowa Black Leggings
Kiowa Gourd Clan
Kiowa Tiah Piah
Kiowa Marine Veterans
American Indian Veterans

Zotigh is offline   Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
Old 10-23-2006, 03:54 PM   #109
pow-wow gear central!
 
tribaltagz's Avatar
 
User InfoThanks / Tagging InfoGifts / Achievements / AwardsvBActivity Stats
tribaltagz has a reputation beyond reputetribaltagz has a reputation beyond reputetribaltagz has a reputation beyond reputetribaltagz has a reputation beyond reputetribaltagz has a reputation beyond reputetribaltagz has a reputation beyond reputetribaltagz has a reputation beyond reputetribaltagz has a reputation beyond reputetribaltagz has a reputation beyond reputetribaltagz has a reputation beyond reputetribaltagz has a reputation beyond reputetribaltagz has a reputation beyond reputetribaltagz has a reputation beyond reputetribaltagz has a reputation beyond reputetribaltagz has a reputation beyond reputetribaltagz has a reputation beyond reputetribaltagz has a reputation beyond reputetribaltagz has a reputation beyond reputetribaltagz has a reputation beyond repute
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Jay, OKlahoma
Posts: 164
Credits: 0.00
Savings: 0.00
permissions to dance


Last edited by tribaltagz; 10-25-2006 at 10:55 AM..
tribaltagz is offline   Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
Old 01-16-2008, 01:12 PM   #110
Powwow Dude
 
Josiah's Avatar
 
Items DevilUser Name Style ChangeUser Title Style Change
User InfoThanks / Tagging InfoGifts / Achievements / AwardsvBActivity Stats
Josiah has a reputation beyond reputeJosiah has a reputation beyond reputeJosiah has a reputation beyond repute
Josiah has a reputation beyond reputeJosiah has a reputation beyond reputeJosiah has a reputation beyond reputeJosiah has a reputation beyond reputeJosiah has a reputation beyond reputeJosiah has a reputation beyond reputeJosiah has a reputation beyond reputeJosiah has a reputation beyond reputeJosiah has a reputation beyond reputeJosiah has a reputation beyond reputeJosiah has a reputation beyond reputeJosiah has a reputation beyond reputeJosiah has a reputation beyond reputeJosiah has a reputation beyond reputeJosiah has a reputation beyond reputeJosiah has a reputation beyond reputeJosiah has a reputation beyond reputeJosiah has a reputation beyond reputeJosiah has a reputation beyond repute
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Center of the Universe: Oklahoma
Posts: 7,097
Blog Entries: 4
Credits: 38,634.63
Savings: 1.00
Yes KiowaKat can makes some boots that will make your head spin
__________________
ᎠᏂᎩᏚᏩᎩ - Anigiduwagi
Till I Die!
Josiah is offline   Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
Old 01-18-2008, 10:56 AM   #111
Tiny Tot Dancer
 
LWB's Avatar
 
User InfoThanks / Tagging InfoGifts / Achievements / AwardsvBActivity Stats
LWB is an unknown quantity at this point
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: thorn in your side
Posts: 29
Credits: 440.05
Savings: 0.00
Great pics

Just droped in to say A BIG thank you to Kat for sharing her pics with all of us on her web site . Went there last night & stayed for hours ,Great stuff , seen alot of old faces i havent seen in years , esp. liked the pic of my younger brother danceing b/t Boots & Bruce . I didnt get to go the year he was brought in , so it was really nice to get to see that . Once again a BIG Thank You Kat
LWB is offline   Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
Old 02-21-2008, 01:54 PM   #112
Junior Dancer
 
tha mom's Avatar
 
User InfoThanks / Tagging InfoGifts / Achievements / AwardsvBActivity Stats
tha mom has a reputation beyond repute
tha mom has a reputation beyond reputetha mom has a reputation beyond reputetha mom has a reputation beyond reputetha mom has a reputation beyond reputetha mom has a reputation beyond reputetha mom has a reputation beyond reputetha mom has a reputation beyond reputetha mom has a reputation beyond reputetha mom has a reputation beyond reputetha mom has a reputation beyond reputetha mom has a reputation beyond reputetha mom has a reputation beyond reputetha mom has a reputation beyond reputetha mom has a reputation beyond reputetha mom has a reputation beyond reputetha mom has a reputation beyond reputetha mom has a reputation beyond reputetha mom has a reputation beyond repute
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Wapato,Washington
Posts: 228
Credits: 477.60
Savings: 64.33
I agree whole heartedly with learning and practicing your own tribal dances and customs. Just to follow what everyone else on the powwow trail is doing isn't right. At one time my daughters wanted to learn to Jingle Dance. My mother(RIP) got on to them and asked them how do they know that they have the right to do this dance? What do they know about why this dance is done and so fourth. So that was the end of them wanting to dance Jingle. They have both grown into fine young Yakama women that know the Yakama ways. I think that if you are adopted into some other tribe and that things are conducted in the right way. You have permission from the correct people etc. Then and only then practice what they have taught you. I am enrolled Yakama, I am also half Creek. I have been adopted by a Ponca family and by a Kiowa family. But still I don't feel comfortable practicing their tribal way of dressing and dancing. So I just live and dance what I grew up doing. Although I love and respect the families that adopted me.
__________________
tha mom is offline   Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
Old 02-21-2008, 03:38 PM   #113
Junior Dancer
 
tha mom's Avatar
 
User InfoThanks / Tagging InfoGifts / Achievements / AwardsvBActivity Stats
tha mom has a reputation beyond repute
tha mom has a reputation beyond reputetha mom has a reputation beyond reputetha mom has a reputation beyond reputetha mom has a reputation beyond reputetha mom has a reputation beyond reputetha mom has a reputation beyond reputetha mom has a reputation beyond reputetha mom has a reputation beyond reputetha mom has a reputation beyond reputetha mom has a reputation beyond reputetha mom has a reputation beyond reputetha mom has a reputation beyond reputetha mom has a reputation beyond reputetha mom has a reputation beyond reputetha mom has a reputation beyond reputetha mom has a reputation beyond reputetha mom has a reputation beyond reputetha mom has a reputation beyond repute
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Wapato,Washington
Posts: 228
Credits: 477.60
Savings: 64.33
Sorry if my post seems a little off the subject.....I think I just just in on the subject a lil late. My father was Creek and my mother was Yakama........neither of them was blond.........I'm not blond either! Although my posts my make it seem otherwise!
__________________
tha mom is offline   Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
Old 06-15-2008, 04:07 AM   #114
USMC
 
Zotigh's Avatar
 
User InfoThanks / Tagging InfoGifts / Achievements / AwardsvBActivity Stats
Zotigh has a reputation beyond repute
Zotigh has a reputation beyond reputeZotigh has a reputation beyond reputeZotigh has a reputation beyond reputeZotigh has a reputation beyond reputeZotigh has a reputation beyond reputeZotigh has a reputation beyond reputeZotigh has a reputation beyond reputeZotigh has a reputation beyond reputeZotigh has a reputation beyond reputeZotigh has a reputation beyond reputeZotigh has a reputation beyond reputeZotigh has a reputation beyond reputeZotigh has a reputation beyond reputeZotigh has a reputation beyond reputeZotigh has a reputation beyond reputeZotigh has a reputation beyond reputeZotigh has a reputation beyond reputeZotigh has a reputation beyond repute
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Texas
Posts: 358
Credits: 1,588.46
Savings: 1.00
Quote:
Originally Posted by tha mom View Post
I agree whole heartedly with learning and practicing your own tribal dances and customs. Just to follow what everyone else on the powwow trail is doing isn't right. At one time my daughters wanted to learn to Jingle Dance. My mother(RIP) got on to them and asked them how do they know that they have the right to do this dance? What do they know about why this dance is done and so fourth. So that was the end of them wanting to dance Jingle. They have both grown into fine young Yakama women that know the Yakama ways.
Huge respect to you, ma'am. Thank you for sharing that anecdote.

I would no more take your tribe's dance for my own and give it to my daughters to dance than you would take my tribe's dance and give it to yours. Thank you.

It's not about 'sanctioning' or 'permission'. It's about simple respect, as you have demonstrated. It's about allowing the owners of a dance or song to gift such to others at their will.

I am impressed with and applaud your approach to the handling of that matter with your daughters. Fluffy words aside...you make me very proud, ma'am.

Thank you.
__________________
Scott Zotigh
Kiowa Black Leggings
Kiowa Gourd Clan
Kiowa Tiah Piah
Kiowa Marine Veterans
American Indian Veterans


Last edited by Zotigh; 06-15-2008 at 04:12 AM..
Zotigh is offline   Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
Old 06-22-2008, 12:49 AM   #115
Pow Wow Visitor
 
User InfoThanks / Tagging InfoGifts / Achievements / AwardsvBActivity Stats
jweare has a spectacular aura about
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 1
Credits: 0.00
Savings: 0.00
People just dont get it

I am Kiowa. Proud to be such as well. I dont think graydog is getting it. Sure the ability to learn is a great gift from our creator. But then again so is free will. But then again even more so, are our tribal traditions. I agree with zotigh ( strong kiowa name I might add. Almost as strong as Ware...aaaaaa.. ) we should focus on our tribal traditions. No one is going to tell you that you cant dance. (unless youre acting looney and/or disrespectful) I believe red wolf gave the songs with the intention of passing on the medicine. Enjoy the medicine greydog. It is good. But what I think zotigh is saying is, there is also medicine in your tribe. Perhaps even better for you as a member of that tribe because it is YOUR people. The stomp dance and its medicine would not do for me as a kiowa , what it would do for you as a cherokee.

It is good that you enjoy the medicine and the ways of our people. Keep that sacred forever in your heart, however , move your focus, to learning more about your people. I do not mean this in a bad way. I do not mean to offend you or say you cant dance this dance. I am in no place to do so. I only speak for one KIOWA. That is me.
jweare is offline   Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
Old 06-24-2008, 01:27 AM   #116
USMC
 
Zotigh's Avatar
 
User InfoThanks / Tagging InfoGifts / Achievements / AwardsvBActivity Stats
Zotigh has a reputation beyond repute
Zotigh has a reputation beyond reputeZotigh has a reputation beyond reputeZotigh has a reputation beyond reputeZotigh has a reputation beyond reputeZotigh has a reputation beyond reputeZotigh has a reputation beyond reputeZotigh has a reputation beyond reputeZotigh has a reputation beyond reputeZotigh has a reputation beyond reputeZotigh has a reputation beyond reputeZotigh has a reputation beyond reputeZotigh has a reputation beyond reputeZotigh has a reputation beyond reputeZotigh has a reputation beyond reputeZotigh has a reputation beyond reputeZotigh has a reputation beyond reputeZotigh has a reputation beyond reputeZotigh has a reputation beyond repute
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Texas
Posts: 358
Credits: 1,588.46
Savings: 1.00
Quote:
Originally Posted by jweare View Post
I believe red wolf gave the songs with the intention of passing on the medicine. Enjoy the medicine greydog. It is good. But what I think zotigh is saying is, there is also medicine in your tribe. Perhaps even better for you as a member of that tribe because it is YOUR people. The stomp dance and its medicine would not do for me as a kiowa , what it would do for you as a cherokee.

It is good that you enjoy the medicine and the ways of our people. Keep that sacred forever in your heart, however , move your focus, to learning more about your people. I do not mean this in a bad way. I do not mean to offend you or say you cant dance this dance. I am in no place to do so. I only speak for one KIOWA. That is me.
Thank you, pahbi! You indeed clarified my meaning.

Aho!
__________________
Scott Zotigh
Kiowa Black Leggings
Kiowa Gourd Clan
Kiowa Tiah Piah
Kiowa Marine Veterans
American Indian Veterans

Zotigh is offline   Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
Old 08-13-2010, 08:18 PM   #117
pawnee drew
 
User InfoThanks / Tagging InfoGifts / Achievements / AwardsvBActivity Stats
afrost is an unknown quantity at this point
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Ignacio, Colorado
Posts: 8
Credits: 838.39
Savings: 0.00
this is one version that was told to me by my aunt who is from Concho, OK she is Cheyenne/Arapahoe and a traditional person. Her sons are sundancers down there and she is very proud of the traditional ways of the Cheyenne people.
In Concho at Sundance time, the Gourd is a part of the Sundance Ceremony each society partakes in the ceremony at the correct time during the ritual. My family is part of one such clan, the Dog Soldiers. Nothing about the ceremony is stolen or was taken from any other tribe and it is a part of the tradition and history of the Cheyenne people.
I know the Kiowa are a proud people and they have every right to tell their own origin story and this is always a source of animosity for them to hear that another tribe has their own origin story.
The Cheyenne is not the only 'other' tribe that has the gourd dance as part of their history and tradition, so it makes no sense to hear that only one tribe can claim the rights to the it. you can be angry at me but what is that going to solve?






A long time ago, the wolf would come and talk to us, the Cheyenne. The Cheyenne Bow String Society would always go into war parties looking for the enemy, and the wolf felt sorry for them. He told the Bow Strings that he would give them special songs that would help them to be successful in battle.

While the wolf was teaching these victory songs to the Cheyenne warriors out on the plains, Kiowa warriors heard the Bow Strings singing. The Kiowa went up on a hill to see where the songs were coming from and looked down at the Bow Strings dancing. They danced up and down, bending their knees. As they danced, the bow quivers on their backs made a rattling noise.

The Kiowa warriors sneaked up on the Bow Strings, captured them, and took them to another place where they made the Bow Strings sing their victory songs all night. After they sang the songs, the Kiowa killed all of them. That is how the Kiowa stole the victory songs from the Cheyenne Bow Strings.

Today, these songs are known as gourd dance songs, and the Cheyenne use rattles to imitate the sound made by the bow quivers. There are many active gourd dance organizations, such as the Watonga Cheyenne Veterans and the Star Hawk Society of the Arapaho. The Cheyenne Bow String Society still exists and is getting stronger year by year.
afrost is offline   Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
Old 08-13-2010, 09:38 PM   #118
Tiny Tot Dancer
 
BigChef's Avatar
 
User InfoThanks / Tagging InfoGifts / Achievements / AwardsvBActivity Stats
BigChef has a reputation beyond reputeBigChef has a reputation beyond repute
BigChef has a reputation beyond reputeBigChef has a reputation beyond reputeBigChef has a reputation beyond reputeBigChef has a reputation beyond reputeBigChef has a reputation beyond reputeBigChef has a reputation beyond reputeBigChef has a reputation beyond reputeBigChef has a reputation beyond reputeBigChef has a reputation beyond reputeBigChef has a reputation beyond reputeBigChef has a reputation beyond reputeBigChef has a reputation beyond reputeBigChef has a reputation beyond reputeBigChef has a reputation beyond reputeBigChef has a reputation beyond reputeBigChef has a reputation beyond reputeBigChef has a reputation beyond repute
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 388
Credits: 0.00
Savings: 0.00
Quote:
Originally Posted by afrost View Post
this is one version that was told to me by my aunt who is from Concho, OK she is Cheyenne/Arapahoe and a traditional person. Her sons are sundancers down there and she is very proud of the traditional ways of the Cheyenne people.
In Concho at Sundance time, the Gourd is a part of the Sundance Ceremony each society partakes in the ceremony at the correct time during the ritual. My family is part of one such clan, the Dog Soldiers. Nothing about the ceremony is stolen or was taken from any other tribe and it is a part of the tradition and history of the Cheyenne people.
I know the Kiowa are a proud people and they have every right to tell their own origin story and this is always a source of animosity for them to hear that another tribe has their own origin story.
The Cheyenne is not the only 'other' tribe that has the gourd dance as part of their history and tradition, so it makes no sense to hear that only one tribe can claim the rights to the it. you can be angry at me but what is that going to solve?






A long time ago, the wolf would come and talk to us, the Cheyenne. The Cheyenne Bow String Society would always go into war parties looking for the enemy, and the wolf felt sorry for them. He told the Bow Strings that he would give them special songs that would help them to be successful in battle.

While the wolf was teaching these victory songs to the Cheyenne warriors out on the plains, Kiowa warriors heard the Bow Strings singing. The Kiowa went up on a hill to see where the songs were coming from and looked down at the Bow Strings dancing. They danced up and down, bending their knees. As they danced, the bow quivers on their backs made a rattling noise.

The Kiowa warriors sneaked up on the Bow Strings, captured them, and took them to another place where they made the Bow Strings sing their victory songs all night. After they sang the songs, the Kiowa killed all of them. That is how the Kiowa stole the victory songs from the Cheyenne Bow Strings.

Today, these songs are known as gourd dance songs, and the Cheyenne use rattles to imitate the sound made by the bow quivers. There are many active gourd dance organizations, such as the Watonga Cheyenne Veterans and the Star Hawk Society of the Arapaho. The Cheyenne Bow String Society still exists and is getting stronger year by year.
I've heard this story before. I've always wundered though how this story continued to be told if all of the Cheyenne warriors where killed.
Did Cheyennes hear Kiowa's tell this story of their victory over the Cheyenne warriors and thier taking the Cheyennes victory songs as spoils or war? Or did the warriors never returning and the Kiowa's all of a sudden dancing similar to the similar songs kinda "put too and too together"?
Just wondering... It's all just so fasinating.
__________________
ScarryWolf
BigChef is offline   Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
Old 08-16-2010, 04:09 PM   #119
PauWau Coordinator
 
WhoMe's Avatar
 
Items Devil
User InfoThanks / Tagging InfoGifts / Achievements / AwardsvBActivity Stats
WhoMe has a reputation beyond reputeWhoMe has a reputation beyond reputeWhoMe has a reputation beyond repute
WhoMe has a reputation beyond reputeWhoMe has a reputation beyond reputeWhoMe has a reputation beyond reputeWhoMe has a reputation beyond reputeWhoMe has a reputation beyond reputeWhoMe has a reputation beyond reputeWhoMe has a reputation beyond reputeWhoMe has a reputation beyond reputeWhoMe has a reputation beyond reputeWhoMe has a reputation beyond reputeWhoMe has a reputation beyond reputeWhoMe has a reputation beyond reputeWhoMe has a reputation beyond reputeWhoMe has a reputation beyond reputeWhoMe has a reputation beyond reputeWhoMe has a reputation beyond reputeWhoMe has a reputation beyond reputeWhoMe has a reputation beyond repute
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Land of 370 Broken Treaties
Posts: 7,150
Credits: 11,582.70
Savings: 0.00
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigChef View Post
I've heard this story before. I've always wundered though how this story continued to be told if all of the Cheyenne warriors where killed.
Did Cheyennes hear Kiowa's tell this story of their victory over the Cheyenne warriors and thier taking the Cheyennes victory songs as spoils or war? Or did the warriors never returning and the Kiowa's all of a sudden dancing similar to the similar songs kinda "put too and too together"?
Just wondering... It's all just so fasinating.

Big,

Yup. This tribal debate has been discussed in another thread. . . and doesn't hold water.

For instance, more than half of all tribes used a gourd or rattle of some sort. Using this argument, can these tribes also claim to be originators of the gourd dance?

and...

if the Kiowa saw the bowstring society dancing with "bow quivers on their backs making a rattling noise" why would they not incorporate this into the gourd dance instead of using rattles?

and...

Could the Kiowa REALLY take a whole society of Cheyenne warriors to another place and MAKE THEM sing victory songs? Hmmmm?

and...

How can a person learn a whole series of new victory songs by listening to them just one night and then be able to sing them ALL again? I don't think even the most gifted of singers can memorize multiple, new, society songs they never heard before, after hearing them sung only one night.

Whatcha' think?



I have a lot of respect for the Cheyenne people. I have been adopted by a Cheyenne mother from El Reno and a Cheyenne father from Hammon. My first cousins are Cheyenne. I take these adoptions seriously. I mean no disrespect to these relationships.
__________________
Powwows will continue to evolve in many directions. It is inevitable.
WhoMe is offline   Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
Sponsored Links
Reply

Bookmarks


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Gourd Dance Song Order Gray Fawn Gourd Dance 4 08-11-2006 03:13 PM
Straight Dance History hewman Straight Dancing 53 09-02-2005 06:09 PM
White Star Gourd dance travelingmocs Gourd Dance 37 01-31-2002 12:41 PM
Gourd Dance Gallery Paul G Gourd Dance 0 09-03-2001 11:17 AM
words to gourd dance starting song and translation Chicken Jerky Pow Wow Singing 10 12-09-2000 02:15 AM

    

Join the online community forum celebrating Native American Culture, Pow Wows, tribes, music, art, and history.

Join PowWows.com Today!

Your Guide to Native American Pow Wows Since 1996

Register For Free

Enjoy the benefits of being a member of PowWows.com!

Join our Native American online community focused on Pow Wow singing, dancing, crafts, Native American music, Native American videos, and more.

Add your Pow Wow to our Calendar

Share your photos and videos

Play games, enter contests, and much more!






New Threads

Pow Wow Calendar Search

 
Month: Year:

Location:
Facebook Profile Images

Videos

Featured Articles

Dance Styles

Crafts

Gallery