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-   -   honoring ppl (http://forums.powwows.com/f27/honoring-ppl-6312/)

MaggieB 11-12-2002 02:22 AM

honoring ppl
 
I remember when honoring someone during gourd dancing was a rarity.

I remember only being honored when being introduced to someone. Now it is when I am head staff or something.
Also when I am head staff. I like to give stuff away to my friends on the sidelines during gourd dance and honor them. but now we have lemonns (ppl that follow) and nothing is personal.

Then I notice the same people honoring eachother ALL the TIME! I just don't get it. What has happened. Have things changed for the worse or for the better?

What do yo think?

sunkato 11-12-2002 02:41 AM

I've seen the whole gourd dance(all the men dancing) stop and line up to shake hands with the person being honored. Then every song there was someone being honored, so every song all 12 gourd dancers dropped money and honored the person [and probably didn't even know why they were doing it] . It's like the gourd dance was being shifted from one end of the arena to the other.

TTMNO 11-12-2002 04:08 PM

I always wondered what that was about.

travelingmocs 11-13-2002 12:41 AM

I agree honering was a way to introduce people or to honer a vetran or someone you have not seen in a long time, and only family and close friends would come and dance with you. Now a days the whole arena comes and dances with you. Thats fine in a way but it also takes something away from it too, cause alot of the people who come up have no clue whats going on they just come up to put money down and follow the crowd.

Well thats it, I hope I have not offened but I wanted to add my two cents...........

MaggieB 11-13-2002 12:45 AM

what do you guys think about shaking hands during the dance?
I was taught that it is what you do. I have heard ppl griping about it. where do you guys stand??

park 11-13-2002 10:42 AM

Honoring
 
I agree that most don't know what's going on when someone is being honored during a gourd dance. If you don't know the person, don't feel obligated. A lot of people don't know the ways in which such honorings are done (for some tribes and groups, there are "rules"). I've also seen some abuses, such as honoring over and over to try to raise gas money (puh-lease). Things have definitely changed over time in this respect.

I think you should shake hands with everyone dancing after you are honored. Everyone includes the women, by the way, who are often left out. If it's a huge dance, I've seen people kind of wave around and do a little sign language to say thanks. I think that's appropriate also. If people are griping, I'd say it's because they don't understand.

CHEROSAGE 11-15-2002 02:36 AM

I agree, this is a pet pieve of mine. I call it line dancing. I don't understand why everyone has to think they need to give to every honoring.

I look at it like this- would you invite yourself to a party you were not officially invited to by the host. I don't get into the honoring if it isn't family or a very close friend.

This is different from a special such as a 1 on 1,etc.

We didn't see this until a few years ago. We noticed that many were not associated with any recognized Veteran Society. I still haven't seen this in Lawton, Carnagie, Anadarko, etc.

Pvt Butter 11-15-2002 03:11 PM

You might not want to go to a gourd dance in California, they'll just look goofy to you.

SBZ4life 11-15-2002 04:21 PM

Tia Piah GAW DANG
 
Heres my outlook on the whole deally dalley...honoring people just to get money is not the way..abusive in fact, If someone is getting honored and I dont feel led to honor them I go on my way...mostly where I see all this honoring every other song is with "HOBBIEST" you know them *cough cough*(Looks around) well you know....the more you get to the source(kiowas)you see em honoring vets,people in service,new borns,etc...not just because Ted and Billy are dancing keen..shee.lol. ITS THE HOBBIEST I TELL YOU!!!...........lol

MaggieB 11-15-2002 07:46 PM

well there have been songs that move singers. You know when they are so into singing the song that you just feel this rush to stand up. That is when they get honored at the drum. I have seen old women throw their shawls at theier feet they were so moved. I have also seen women moved while singing at the drum. It is a special thing when a song is so powerful to do that. I have never seen anyone do that for just the heck of it so i really can't say that it is wrong b/c of what i was taught.

sunkato 11-16-2002 12:46 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by MaggieB
well there have been songs that move singers. You know when they are so into singing the song that you just feel this rush to stand up. That is when they get honored at the drum. I have seen old women throw their shawls at theier feet they were so moved. I have also seen women moved while singing at the drum. It is a special thing when a song is so powerful to do that. I have never seen anyone do that for just the heck of it so i really can't say that it is wrong b/c of what i was taught.
I like gourd dance. Thanks for putting that picture in my mind Maggie. There's nothing like a good song

SBZ4life 11-17-2002 05:22 PM

Tia Piah Goodness
 
About honoring singers while they are singing...Im Comanche and Kiowa too if anyone was wondering.lol...BUT ANYWAYZ~~I sing gourd dance...and if someone likes a song being sung and they wanna honor the singer who started the song,thats what they do...put money at thier feet and that person dances. I dont see nothing wrong with dancing right at the drum. & about someone getting honored and you happen to be in front of them...Unless your like 5feet from them...I wouldnt worry about it. but Ive never really seen anyone dance in front of someone getting honored.

Hoka Bunz

MaggieB 11-17-2002 06:40 PM

usually when someone gets honored, the person who first puts the money down picks a spot where nonone else is. I think that if you purposfully dance infront of them just be be a butt. Then that is what you are!! i think that if someone accidently ends up there than it would be fine. however think about it. If you saw someone being honored would you try to dance over them?? No.

luvstraightdancrs 11-18-2002 12:00 AM

SBZ4life -- I for one enjoy seeing a singer on his feet, dancing at the drum. Really makes the other kick it into high gear and the jamming just gets better.

Never forget seeing Kenneth Cozad at the last Potawatomi Pow-Wow, singing with Scizzortail, last song of the weekend. Brought tears to a bunch of people's eyes. Danced that song through 14 or 15 times. Awesome sight!

:dancer: :dancer: :41:

park 11-18-2002 11:27 AM

Standing up at the drum
 
A lot of times those singers are being honored cuz it's their family song. You don't see that much outside OK.

R I Whiteside 11-18-2002 11:49 AM

Gourd dance honoring
 
It is sad that such a fine old tradition is being corrupted by over-use and inappropriate use. "Honoring" means "honoring," not "something for everyone." I have been to a couple of powwows where the same (anglo??) woman in buckskin brings out her lady-friend during a gourd dance honoring song to be honored also. No shawl, no pre-planning, nothing! The dancers look around confused, and then to prevent an embarrising situation, troop over to the woman and shell out a buck apiece. It's saddening more than disgusting. It makes it hard to

keep smilin'

Cheyenne_G 11-18-2002 08:54 PM

Gourd Dancing is tha bomb...
 
I think gourd dancing is the bomb b/c that's what i was raised on doing in Oklahoma i'm cheyenne and alot of my family and friends would met up at one place and it wouldn't quit until like 3 or 4 in tha morning... But i also seen it done in many other states and some times i think if them people knew what the heck their doing... Some did look funny..:rolleyes:

CHEROSAGE 11-21-2002 12:37 AM

Parks is correct. Many times if a family song is started and a family member is at the drum that singer(s) will stand to honor thier family.

I know that a common honor at the drum is the headsinger. I have seen this and the honor is at the drum just outside of the chairs usually.

I only wish that some of these superhonoringaddicts would actually dance in OK, especially in the Carnegie area. I would like to watch them honor everyone down there with some odd antics. Learn to dance right or don't do it at all.

park 11-21-2002 11:32 AM

More phenomenon
 
Like Cherosage said, if these folks like to participate, come on down to Kiowa country! At the July Annuals, it wouldn't be hard for someone to blow $100 in one session.

I have recently seen something else spreading down in Texas that I never saw too much before. Typically, people pass in front of the person being honored and simply drop a dollar in front of them. Sometimes they stop and shake hands or exchange a few words and a smile. For some reason, certain people have taken to placing the dollar bill on the back side of their fan and letting it slide to the ground, but ONLY after offering the dollar bill to what I take to be the four directions. Apparently, the dollar bill is now sacred or blessed as a result of some sort of mini-ceremony. Has anyone else seen this? I guess they're religious lemmings.

CHEROSAGE 11-24-2002 02:00 AM

yeh,

I've seen this and too wondered what was being blessed. I first started seeing this thing when they would raise the dollar into the air, whoop a bit and place it in front of the intended. This is part of the uninvited guest line up parade. THE LINE DANCERS.

Haven't figured out the blessings yet. Good luck figuring this one out!


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