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Old 11-30-2002, 02:07 PM   #21
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honoring ppl

in the honoring process, my family out Oklahoma way always tought me that when honored with money for dancing or what not, that you were suppose to pass that along to the drum for singing the songs, or perhaps the head singer for starting that perticular song, say if it were a family song or something. Thats how I was tought, are there folks out there that keep the cash for themselves? I was always tought that to give back, when being honored.
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Old 11-30-2002, 07:25 PM   #22
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Gourd dance honoring ppl

Yes, 49r, you are correct. I didn't even mention this because, with one exception, I've never seen honoring at gourd dances performed any other way in 40 some odd years in the circle. In fact if you want to be picky about protocol (how's that for a big word to mean "the right way") the person being honored shouldn't even touch the money. The Head Gourd Dancer who designated the honoree picks up the $1's and puts them in his/a hat which is goven to the honoree. That person then takes the money to the drum, shakes hands with the lead singer, and returns to his place. (Some places, the honoree just picks up the $$ and puts them on the drum, but this is a little sloppy. When the Head GD picks it up, that indicates that it's not important to the honoree, except as a way to show generosity to the drum.

Unfortunately, I keep running into this anglo woman in bucksin (in 3 states) who brings her lady friend out to be honored herself. (That's a no - no and is the Head Gourd Dancers perogative.) The dancers usually file by to avoid creating an embarresing situation, and the women keep the money!! Uggh.

Honoring is a great tradition when done right and not overdone. It helps us to

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Old 12-02-2002, 02:48 PM   #23
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just do what u know is right quit worring about everyone else if some of those elders want to get on to them let them
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Old 12-07-2002, 02:26 AM   #24
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I was taught that the gift is placed at the feet of the honoree in the middle. The person that was invited to help honor is the recipient of the gift. Any and all of the gift belongs to the assistant. That person can do with the gift(s) as he wishes. If he wants to give it to the Honoree he can, if he wants to give it to the drum he can, if he puts it in his pocket- thats OK too. The person doing the honoring is giving two (2) honors.

I hope I explained this the way I ment to.
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Old 02-13-2003, 10:19 PM   #25
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MORE GOURD DANCING ETIQUETTE

Old times it was them that knew what they were doing as what was out in the dance arena. Ya Know what i mean? Now don't get me wrong i gots some fine relatives who are non-native who try to do the native thing but sometimes they just don't get it (good intentions and all)

Out in my area, i think maybe there are just one or two people who KNOW what they are doing in the arena, and the singers, that's another thing. AS a young man, i was taught that because i was not kiowa or commanche or cheyenne, that i did not have the right to chastise anyone for the way they were dancing or the things they did while they were dancing.

But come on, have some sense. don't dance in front of someone when they are being honored, don't walk in front of someone while they are dancing or being honored.

SHOOT MY BIGGEST PET PEEVE, IS THAT THEY USED TO TELL US TO SHOW RESPECT TO THE DRUM, AND THAT MEANT COVERING UP OUR LEGS (EVEN ON THE HOTTEST DAYS, WITH PANTS) NOW I SEE SINGERS WHO COME TO THE DRUM IN SHORTS

S-H-O-R-T-S, MIND YOU, its a matter of discipline i tell you. the same way with SITTING at the drum. You sit down and show to the people and to the drum that you are committed to singing and making the songs a blessings for the people.
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Old 02-14-2003, 02:40 AM   #26
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These are good thoughts. I was taught that we should dress as well as we can. This doesn't mean a tuxedo is necessary but dress well as you can. Some of us aren't fortunate to have great deal of fundings, but we don't have to wear rags/shorts and ragged t-shirts. This is a pet peeve of mine also.
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Old 02-20-2003, 02:48 PM   #27
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honoring people

I sing, and there are times when singing that the spirit hits you, i think those are the times that justify my singing, that good feeling. Now lately i have been hearing a lot of talk from people, the biggies out in Oklahoma, about how they go to church and how they don't drink or do drugs, and how they love the good holy lifestyle.

I am not a hypocrite, i do drink occasionally, but i do not go out and preach to other people about how i don't when i actually do. I am HONEST> furthermore, i NEVER approach the drum or the dance under the influence. I think my late belovedgrandmother would come up out of her grave to show me how much something like that would shame her.

I put this here because this thread talks about honoring people, i honor my grandma, and my late uncle Dennis Coan, and the DRUM, by trying to spread this message. Respect the drum with this now message of HONOR>
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Old 02-20-2003, 06:51 PM   #28
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honoring ppl

A good heart is essential but proper regalia and good manners are also important. We older folk have a tendency to try and ignore the errors of others. Perhaps this is to keep harmony in the circle. However, if error is not corrected then it becomes accepted behavior and that is too bad.

If we teach instead of correcting, perhaps others will learn, and then we can all


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Old 05-20-2004, 07:00 PM   #29
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hehe

What about all the new 'honor-hostages' being created recently? :) You know...when they invite you to meet someone and introduce you, and then they place money at that persons feet while you dance next to them. So far, so good. But, then some folks put money at your feet, and maybe even the feet of the guy next to you...lol...thus rendering you helpless to escape! :) The honoree should not move from place until the person brought to help has picked up the money, yet they capture that person in place by honoring them, too. thus, taking quite a bit of honor away from the honoree, too, now that I think of it.

Anyway...it's a bad new custom. Made even worse when seeing those people sequestered so pick up the money in front of them themselves!

The honor is in the giving, folks. Not the taking. The person being honored is being helped in their gift by those coming to drop money in front of them. The honoree gets not the money, but the honor in 'giving' the money. (Typically, to the person they brought to stand next to the honoree so that someone would be there to un-anchor the poor soul from the dance floor by picking up the money.)

So, don't make your buddy a 'honor-hostage'. And, lol...don't give the money to the honoree...roflol...kinda kills the whole point of the honoring. (what is placed in front of them is the gift they are giving...not what they are getting)
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Old 05-21-2004, 06:47 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by park
A lot of times those singers are being honored cuz it's their family song. You don't see that much outside OK.
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park:

You are so right on with this comment.

Many songs that are sung at gourd dances today belong to clan members, families and individuals who are both alive and deceased. It is not uncommon for a singer to "unknowingly" sing a song that has an owner. If this occurs, the owner has an obligation to stand up and acknowledge the song. Originally men at the drum did not leave the drum or stand up while a song was in progress unless they were obligated to.

As the gourd dance has spread, owners of songs have travelled outside of what is considered "gourd dance country."
Of course singers outside of gourd dance country are not educated on the ownership of songs.

The example of Kenneth Cozad standing up and bringing tears to many people's eyes has an explanation. Kenneth's late dad Joe Cozad (for those Kgoy-goo reading this post, I ask that you excuse me for saying the name of the deceased. But, I am doing it in the name of education) has a song that is very beautiful and popular. When it is sung, Kenneth is obligated to stand up and acknowledge his father's song. This is the reason for the tears.

When gourd dance participants see men at the drum standing up, it can often be misinterpreted, if not explained.
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Old 05-22-2004, 10:10 AM   #31
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Honor Hostages?

This has been a really goot thread. Zotigh cracked me up about the honor hostages. I ain't seen that yet. Like SBZ4Life, I am Comanche and Kiowa, and was taught, not necessarily by words, but by actions, too dress your Sunday best. I bring lots of dollar bills with me and WAS told by words that I am to always give away anything that comes to me, and it will come back more. Thats been true for me. I hope to meet some of you July 4th weekend.... You know where!
I also enjoyed reading the posts about the history of gourd dance. My history started in the late 70's going to powwows with my grandma and grandpa. Its amazing to me, how times have changed. I remember getting candy and fruit at Christmastime...hmm... wonder if that still goes on. My grandpa was a member of the Comanche Gourd Clan, which is no longer existing. He worked the concession stand sometimes, dang i loved it! I would get free cokes, and bubble gum. Hee hee...sorry...just sitting here remembering.
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Old 05-25-2004, 04:52 PM   #32
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When we sing sometimes there will be 5 or 6 singers and they will honor two of them. Be trying to blast the song out. sometimes it sounds bad. but its for a good reason!! always try to give an extra two or three pushup when that happens.
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Old 08-03-2004, 10:20 PM   #33
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honoring someone

I don't know where people get off throwing dollar bills to honor someone, because that's cheap and doesn't mean much. My mother told me when you honor your loved one you don't throw $1 in front of them, you throw $5 or $10. That is how it's suppose to be done.
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Old 08-10-2004, 11:01 AM   #34
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Angry

Quote:
Originally Posted by redberi
I don't know where people get off throwing dollar bills to honor someone, because that's cheap and doesn't mean much. My mother told me when you honor your loved one you don't throw $1 in front of them, you throw $5 or $10. That is how it's suppose to be done.
Because it's all about the $$$, right? So, the next time someone throws a $1 at my feet -- which happens about as often as a lunar eclipse -- I'm just going to walk away due to the insult! (That is what you'd have me do, right?) Better yet, I'll hold a grudge about how this individual has "shamed" my family honor in some way.

Yes, that's it! In the future, it will cost the troglodyte a slew of horses and blankets to enter the arena due to their pitiful donation, singers shall sing songs that curse them, and they shall be forced to wear the mark of the mottled yellow skunk tail for all to see! Quick secret: Most folks don't keep the $$$! The amount is meaningless.

It's about the process, which is overused to begin with. [Personal rant completed.]
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Old 08-10-2004, 06:05 PM   #35
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buh........
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Old 08-11-2004, 02:02 AM   #36
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Zeke:
Personal rant is duely noted.
See you in a few. Perhaps even in Tulsa this coming weekend.
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Old 08-18-2004, 11:05 PM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zeke
It's about the process, which is overused to begin with. [Personal rant completed.]
The message is harsh, but you are right-on in the content.

The honouring is a symbolic 'giving' to others. The amount put in front of the person being honoured is not the focus, since someone else is going to pick it up. (the person being honoured should not move from place until the gifts before him are given out.)

Seen too many folks being honoured picking up the money in front of them which is meant to give them honour by giving it away. Which is why they bring someone to stand next to them anyway.

The custom has turned from a native gesture of giving, to a euro-gesture of getting.

The person being honoured does NOT pick up the money put before them. That is the money or items (we used to put blankets and items at their feet...money is just easier) that they will 'give away'.

They can ask someone near them to pick them up, or a person is brought to stand next to them to make sure that it is given away or taken.

It's not a 'gimme' session. :P

Giving gives you honour.

hehe...next, we'll be seeing 'give aways' where folks lay blankets out and invite everyone to donate to the person being honoured.

:P
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Old 08-18-2004, 11:32 PM   #38
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Unhappy "Point taken"

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zotigh
The message is harsh, but you are right-on in the content.
I'm sorry, they touched a nerve. I don't really know why...
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Old 08-18-2004, 11:37 PM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zeke
I'm sorry, they touched a nerve. I don't really know why...
Prolly 'cause you understand the purpose of the honouring, bud.
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Old 08-23-2004, 01:45 AM   #40
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Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: midwest, USA
Posts: 843
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zotigh

hehe...next, we'll be seeing 'give aways' where folks lay blankets out and invite everyone to donate to the person being honoured.
For gawd sake please tell me you whispered that...cause if any of the goobers around here heard you I will see that happening at the dances next year. Don't even tease.

God forbid I ever see that come to pass.
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PB49

"Every child is an artist. The problem is how to remain an artist once we grow up." Pablo Picasso

"Yesterday is history, tomorrow is a mystery, but today is a gift...that is why is it called the Present." Master Oogway - KungFu Panda


My comments are based on what I have been taught and my experiences over the years I have been around the circle. They should in no way be taken as gospel truths and are merely my opinions or attempts at passing on what I have learned while still learning more.
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