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Old 07-08-2005, 06:22 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by ndnmba
I was at Carnegie last night and I have to say that it was very beautiful and moving. . . . . It so cool to see all the "giving back" to the gourd society. . . . Almost made me wish I was Kiowa....

Thanks ndnmba,

Your post makes me feel real good! Miigwetch!
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Old 07-14-2005, 04:28 PM   #22
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Yeah. The real way, the Kiowa way. Not the powwow type of gourd dance where people dress with short sleeve & t-shirts, tennis shoes, ball caps and shorts. I wish them people would learn how to things correctly, gosh!
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Old 07-14-2005, 04:30 PM   #23
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Yeah. The real way, the Kiowa way. Not the powwow type of gourd dance where people dress with short sleeve & t-shirts, tennis shoes, ball caps and shorts. I wish them people would learn how to do things correctly, gosh!
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Old 07-14-2005, 06:50 PM   #24
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There is one extremely powerful and emotional song that is sung at the Kiowa Gourd Clan ceremonies.

It is started by the gourd dancers and you can hear it sung by the gourd dancers clear around the arena. While it is sung, only the gourds are used in accompanyment.

After it is started 4 times, the singers hit the drum hard, give the wolf howl and start it another four times at the drum.

Can any of you K'goy-goo help me out. This song has a Kiowa name?
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Old 07-17-2005, 11:41 PM   #25
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For those of you who do not know... this song is called the "tohn daw gyah". this song belonged to chief whitebear. yet again this year Dawes has made another mistake; they have referred to this as the "paw daw gyah" (although there is such a song) but in recollection i know this is the "tohn daw gyah". in past years fred tsoodle had the part of starting this song and later handed the responsibility to his grandson Freddie Cozad. on the main day the song rendered was that which belonged to red wolf, in memory of his grandpa Leonard Cozad Sr.
(just a brief history)
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Old 07-18-2005, 12:21 AM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by saycoin311
Yeah. The real way, the Kiowa way. Not the powwow type of gourd dance where people dress with short sleeve & t-shirts, tennis shoes, ball caps and shorts. I wish them people would learn how to things correctly, gosh!
Gah, no need to act hi-yi. Kiowa Gourd Clan Pres. Glen Hamilton had on some ate up lookin' jeans. It sure is sad to see how judgemental they've become, and to think that if long time ago, all the old Kiowas were dancing and one of 'em looked down to see that, lets say, Chief Lonewolf, had a hole in his moccasin, the other's would look down on him and say,"Sorry, but you're gonna have to go sit down because you have a hole in your moccasin." Maybe that's why the Kiowa Gourd Clan is having so much trouble within themselves. Their judgemental ways are catching up with them. There's only one man who has the right to judge others, and thats the man upstairs.
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Old 07-18-2005, 12:43 AM   #27
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Old 07-18-2005, 02:17 PM   #28
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Kiowa Gourd Clan protocol & etiquette

It's too bad that not even the clan itself, isn't going by what they're suppose to be wearing when it comes to regalia. I guess anything goes, there's no more of a proper way of doing things in that ceremonial arena. Things aren't the way it was when the old-folks were here. Things change, people change, too. Too much of, Aw, it's okay. Be hi-ga-hain, it's okay long as nobody is offended. Let's just accept the fact that nobody's going to remember and practice ways of the past. Tradition dosen't mean traditional to anyone, it's not that I feel hi-yi, I feel appalled.
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Old 07-18-2005, 05:19 PM   #29
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Well, if people are going to practice ways of the past, then some of them better learn their language. I know many young Kiowa singers today can really belt them out but if you were to ask them what the words meant in the songs they are singing, they probably couldn't tell you. Also, if the old folks were here, you wouldn't see all the families who show off and build themselves up. They don't have a right and the old folks know that.
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Old 07-19-2005, 01:24 PM   #30
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practice of the old ways

Yeah, I agree with what you've said about certain people can build themselves up. We're taught not to boast or brag about what you're/we're doing as Kiowa people, actually, it shouldn't matter what tribe or race you come from. You see, even nowadays, we're really getting away from those teachings. We Indian people, or some of us take things a bit too seriously, and it gets very personal. Yes, I wish the old-folks were still here to set us straight, keep us on the right track. That is what I miss. Like I said earlier, things and people are constantly changing things around, especially when it comes to the old or traditional ways of our people.
Ah-Koh
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Old 07-19-2005, 02:57 PM   #31
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Yeah, we all need a good old-fashion bawling out like the old people used to do at Kiowa Gourd Clan back in the day. I remember Old Man Tsoodle use to give it to the crowd about how things were turning out for the Kiowa people. There isnt anyone telling the younger generations how things are done and why things are done.

Everything the Kiowa people did had a reason and a lesson behind it but today everyone is out for themselves and no lessons are being learned.
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Old 07-19-2005, 04:35 PM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nativemah
Yeah, we all need a good old-fashion bawling out like the old people used to do at Kiowa Gourd Clan back in the day. I remember Old Man Tsoodle use to give it to the crowd about how things were turning out for the Kiowa people. There isnt anyone telling the younger generations how things are done and why things are done.

Everything the Kiowa people did had a reason and a lesson behind it but today everyone is out for themselves and no lessons are being learned.
I hear what your saying, but I believe it is up to the FAMILY to teach the lessons, give direction. I am blessed to have Uncles who know it is for them to set me straight. I also have received good guidance from a few of our KGC leaders. In a very respectful way.
I don't feel its proper to gossip about my KGC leadership whether it be in cyberspace or sitting on my couch. If I feel something is wrong, perhaps I would approach a headsman and discuss it with him. I feel it is improper.
The most important thing to me, is this. Do "I" behave and dress in the proper way, as a member of the KGC? When I'm at home, or work, do I behave in a way that brings honor to my Gourd Clan? Am I a giver or am I a taker? A-Ho!
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Old 07-19-2005, 04:45 PM   #33
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Old-Folks

Hawww. I agree with you on that. Another thing is, we're slowly losing our language, hardly anyone talks Kiowa, a very few elders that we have left are, and that's starting to become a rare thing, depending where you live, and how often you might hear them talking Kiowa. For the rest of us, we'll just continue to mix it with English sentences and keep trying to learn it through our songs. The next best thing is to "Bpaye-Dawh-si", pray to Dawh-Kee (GOD) for help. I know the elders would encourge this, prayer, always. Things that make them Happy.
Ah-Koh...........
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Old 07-19-2005, 04:56 PM   #34
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Saycoin,
I'm preaching to the choir, I know. We can thank the indian schools for the destruction of our languages. I know my Grandpa and Grandma were punished if they spoke their language at the school. And if their parents didn't bring them to the school, they were punished by having their rations held back. So when my parents were being raised, the language wasn't passed on.
I used to love it when I would be at my Grandmas house and she'd be on the phone with her sister talking Kiowa. Sometimes, I'd hear my name, and I'd wonder what was so funny. Ha, ha, ha...
So today, I believe it will take a concerted effort from the elders who speak it fluently, giving it to the kids who, through the pain and sacrifice of our parents, now are encouraged to learn our language.
Numunu1971
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Old 07-19-2005, 05:03 PM   #35
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Talking olden days

Quote for today, tomorrow and forever.

"A positive anything is always better than a negative nothing"
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Old 07-20-2005, 12:35 PM   #36
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Red Shoes, Saycoin and Numunu,

We all agree that the Kiowa language is being lost.

I would venture to say that there is NOT a single Kiowa under the age of 50 who can hold a fluent Kiowa conversation with a K'goygoo elder - without using English words. If this is not true, can you name one Kiowa under the age of 50 who can?

I agree that most Kiowa young people who sing, cannot translate word-for-word what they are singing. But most know what they are singing about.

The K'goygoo language has diminished for many reasons: Boarding schools, Government ban on ceremonies for a 40 year period, intermarriage, relocation, non-functionality in today's society, disuse, lack of interest, etc. How many times have our young people been laughed at for pronouncing a K'goygoo word wrong? I think you get what I am saying....

Language extinction is affecting all tribes to different extents. K'goy-goo neighbors to the south (K'gyaigoo) have a fluent speaker who is 31 and lives in Apache. K'goygoo neighbors to the north across the interstate (Si K'awTdaw) have a fluent language speaker that is 26 and lives in Watonga. 8 Oklahoma tribes have no fluent speakers in their membership. 10 more tribes are one generation away from language extinction.


"Who's fault is it that the K'goygoo language is becoming extinct???" We as Native peoples are all facing this same issue.
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Old 07-20-2005, 03:07 PM   #37
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language

WhoMe,


I have to say, it's our ownselves who's letting the language lose out to a certain extent. Some won't get a chance to learn it. I know we all grew up hearing our parents, grandparents and great-grandparents speak fluently, everyday. Yes, those interventions had a way to keep tribes from learning their languages. That's been answered in that era. Today, it's different - maybe it is based on personal preferences, and how things are taught in the homes.

For encouragement purposes. As for all them young Kiowa singers, keep up the hard work at the drum. At least they're learning. There's nothing wrong with that. That's what learning is, they might make mistakes every now and then in pronouncing Kiowa words, but it dosesn't mean that they don't know anything. They should be encouraged. So, if they don't learn those songs, regardless, who's going to carry it on?

And for those who speak fluently regardless of age. They have a great gift to speak their respective languages. I'm sure they are using it helping others.
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Old 07-21-2005, 01:51 AM   #38
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I feel mul-bane when I talk to the old-folks and they tell me things in kiowa. I don't understand. usually I will ask if I don't know, but I listen and try to take everything in and learn.
I also think kids today are not interested in there NDN ways..

Numunu said it... boarding school are still working today in the assimalation of our people.
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Old 07-21-2005, 01:30 PM   #39
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Cool Feel Maw-bane?

Hey, I can relate to that. When you try to say something in Kiowa, they either laugh at you or make you feel maw-bane. I think that's why a lot of younger people choose not to learn. Seems like just the bad words we learn first, huh? You're doing good when some elder is talking Kiowa, and in their sentence or comments, you can only recognize or identify one or two words, and puzzle it together like I do. At least we have that much. I for one, ain't no Kiowa expert, never was, and never will be one.
Ah-Koh-awn...........
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Old 07-21-2005, 06:06 PM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by saycoin311
WhoMe,

... As for all them young Kiowa singers, keep up the hard work at the drum. At least they're learning. There's nothing wrong with that. That's what learning is, they might make mistakes every now and then in pronouncing Kiowa words, but it dosesn't mean that they don't know anything. They should be encouraged. So, if they don't learn those songs, regardless, who's going to carry it on?

Well said saycoin
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