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Old 06-12-2002, 04:36 PM   #1
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Memphis Tia Piah

IF there are any members of the Memphis Tia Piah on here Please respond to this post
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Old 06-13-2002, 11:49 PM   #2
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Brother:

Still trying to figure out the significance of the bees coming into the circle last weekend.

Any thoughts on the subject?

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Old 06-14-2002, 11:38 AM   #3
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Can't resist

What are talking about?
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Old 06-14-2002, 11:59 AM   #4
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How many members do you guys have?

Do you have an annual gourd dance?

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Old 06-14-2002, 12:28 PM   #5
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Them Bees were brought by them Comanches:D
We have about 150 members and our newest members are Billy Evens Horse and Kinney Gimmesaddle.
Our annual is in the first weekend in April at Memean Shelby Forrest in Memphis TN.
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Old 06-14-2002, 12:52 PM   #6
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Not a member just curious what tia piah are?is?
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Old 06-14-2002, 03:18 PM   #7
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Well, there's a park near Anadarko, OK by that name. I went to a GREAT powwow over there! It was my first REAL powwow and boy was it GREAT! Cozad was drumming and there were two other drum groups. Awsome gourd dancing there as well.
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Old 06-14-2002, 08:36 PM   #8
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Tia Piah means honored warrior society. They protect the circle and the Native American Church and in the old days helped prepare the sun dance circle.This is where all the gourd dance songs come from. :chief:
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Old 06-16-2002, 06:19 PM   #9
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Hmmm

With all due respect, "Tia-piah" does not mean "honored warrior society." I bet you know that, though.

Where have you heard that the Tia-piah protects the NAC?

One last question, are you saying the gourd dances songs are sun dance songs?

Just wonderin'
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Old 06-16-2002, 11:47 PM   #10
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MEMPHIS TIA PIAH SOCIETY

The Memphis Tia Piah Society is a daughter society of the Kiowa Tia Piah Society, one of the oldest warrior societies in the Americas. Our traditions are therefore Kiowa.

The literal meaning of Tia Piah is debatable. The creed of the Memphis Tia Piah Society is TY-Piah-AH-Gaw which translates:
"UNAFRAID OF DEATH". One could translate Tia Piah as "unafraid".

Researchers indicate that the Gourd dance was revived by the Kiowa in the middle 1950s as a way to honor Tribal members who had served in WWII and Korea. It was instantly imbraced by the Kiowa, Comanche, Cheyenne, Arapaho and the Ponca. Historians have said that many of the Kiowa Gourd Dance Societies were originally made up of descendants of Satanta (White Bear)

It would be a stretch to say that the Gourd Dance is similar to the Sun Dance. It is a dance for warriors, but even the sun dance is observed in various ways by different tribes.
Hope this helps. Smiling Badger
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Old 06-24-2002, 06:21 PM   #11
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Headsman,
I'm a member and proud of it !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Old 06-29-2002, 07:20 PM   #12
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Gourd Dancing

Hau, Kola Park

Gourd dancing never has been a part of the annual Sun Dance. Beside being a most sacred cerimony, in the old days it was a time when everyone came together with a lot of fellowship and feasting in addition to the religious aspects of the event. Then, in a deliberate event to wipe out NDN culture, the U.S. Government forbid the Sun Dance. In some places Sundancing continued in secret, in other places it died out to be revived only recently. However, there was still a cultural need for a family reunion / gathering of the tribe / cultural activity. Gourd dancing by warrior societies filled the need for a social activity until the old warriors had mostly all crossed over.

Only after the World Wars when young men returned from combat back to the rez was gourd dancing revived. Veterans who gourd dance now enjoy the companship of fellow warriors, but since most of us also remember our comarades who never returned, it also has high spiritual aspects.

Although I'm not a Tia Phai member, I try to drive up every year to dance with them and do honor their organization.

Since I "have shaker and will travel" they help me to
keep 'smilin. I wish the same for you.

Aho.
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Old 07-08-2002, 03:52 PM   #13
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Cool

Well, now that I am back in the world again ( good or bad ?) , I'd like to invite R I Whiteside, Park and anyone and everyone else to the Millington Powwow in November.... more dtails later. We can then discuss these matters at length.

Headsmen, was that a great trip or what ???
Billy Two Hawks, Smiling Badger...... looking forward to seeing you BOTH out there.... send me a PM and we will discuss...

RI... "have shaker will travel" that is CLASSIC !!!!!

Just my thoughts for the day.... have a nice one yourselves.
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Old 07-10-2002, 07:37 PM   #14
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Thumbs up

Just wanted to say Aho ! to park on behalf of my wife,kids & my Kiowa family . I guess when people see the fans , rattles & blankets they think gourd has something to do with the N.A.C. infact it has little to do with it, other than some people belong to both. In Cherokee Gourd we are asked not to use real gourds (or anything that belongs to church) into the dance grounds out of respect for the church. I was at Memphis Powwow about Five years ago When Cherokee Gourd was host ,our headsmen went to the M.C. & asked that all gourd dancers please put there real gourds away & not to bring their medicine into the dance grounds,
this was done in a respectful way, but there were some people who would not(& they were members of menphis t.p. one was there headman). I am not a member of the N.A.C. but many of my family & friends are & it's like one of them said " protecting the N.A.C. the N.A.C.needs more attorneys & understanding legislators , than it needs menphis t.p..
Once agian AHO Park
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Old 07-11-2002, 12:46 AM   #15
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MEMPHIS TIA PIAH SOCIETY

Siyo LWB:

I am a member of the Memphis Tia Piah Society. It was an honor for me to Gourd Dance with the Cherokee Gourd at the Bell Pow Wow 2 years ago and at the Annual Celebration in Tahlequah last year. I hope to Gourd Dance with them in Tahlequah this labor day week end as well.

We were very pleased to accept Billy Evans Horse, Chairman of the Kiowa Nation into the Memphis Tia Piah Society at our annual gathering last April. Chairman Evans Horse will be Head Singer at the Millington Pow Wow to be held the first week end in November.

On behalf of the Memphis Tia Piah Society, I would like to invite you to the Millington, TN Pow Wow. The Memphis Tia Piah will be the host Gourd Society. We welcome you brother.

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Old 07-11-2002, 01:21 PM   #16
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Exclamation Free Advice

Free advice for members/headmen of Memphis Tia-Piah who are unfamiliar with Kiowa culture:

1. Do your best to learn about Kiowa people, culture, history and other aspects of Kiowa life before claiming to be a part of it in any way, shape or form.

2. Donít depend on other people to teach you about it second- or thirdhand; learn for yourself. If there are no Kiowa people in your area or visits with Kiowa people are few and far between, then read books by the following authors for a good start: Maurice Boyd, Eric Lassiter, Clyde Ellis, Bill Meadows, Gus Palmer, Jr. and N. Scott Momaday. Also, read the essays written in "Gifts of Pride and Love: Kiowa and Comanche Cradles." Avoid Mildred Mayhall. If your latest members include former tribal chair Billy Evans Horse, then you should learn from him and really listen.

3. Donít just take what you want from gourd dancing or Kiowa people in a cafeteria-style way and leaving what you donít want. Thatís the lowest form of cultural appropriation. However, donít become hell-bent on becoming Kiowa, either, just to be able to wear tab leggings and brag about being adopted Kiowa or a Tia-Piah member. Respect and quiet observation are helpful.

4. As far as I understand it, Tia-Piah-Gau served as one of the societies chosen to serve as the Sun Danceís police force. The society chosen varied from year to year in some cases. Although gourd dance may take the place of Sun Dance as an annual encampment for the Kiowa, the gourd dance was not the sun dance, and is not an equivalent to sun dance.

5. Although some gourd society members may also be Native American Church members, and some items of regalia may be similar, they are not connected. Gourd societies have nothing to do with "protecting" the NAC. The NAC needs attorneys, solid officers, understanding legislators and prayer by its members. It does not need Big River Clan to "protect" them.

6. The Kiowa language is difficult, but do your best learn if this is your "mother society." Last I heard, I donít believe the meaning of "Tia-Piah" changed to "honored warrior society." Itís also not pronounced "tie pay" or "thigh pay," as Iíve heard it sometimes. Be carefuló youíre close to pronouncing the society name as being "white-colored vaginas." The closest way to type this pronunciation is "tdien pbay" or "tdien pbday gau," with "tdien" nasalized toward the end. This means "unafraid of death," roughly. "Tdien pbay ay gau" means "skunkberry," according to the writings of the late Kiowa scholar, Parker McKenzie, a Kiowa man who spent over 80 of his 101 years dedicated to Caui-tdoen-gya: the Kiowa language.

7. This is a start, but not definitive. Itís just friendly advice. Maybe it will keep someone from learning such endearing Kiowa terms as "bo-on," "mau-bain," haigya-hain" and "kíyagop-hain."

8. Remember: The Kiowa community is southwest Oklahoma.

9. There are too many people important to me within the Kiowa community ó both Kiowa by blood and Kiowa by adoption ó to just let some of these above statements slide and sit in cyberspace. This is for all of my relations, especially my wife and son. Itís not out of a need to be "an haigyadau." Aho de onde! Aho to Park and LWB.

Tíaultaun Ondep
City Councilman
Bote, Oklahoma
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Old 07-11-2002, 02:04 PM   #17
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Cool

A big AHO!! to you T'aultaun Ondep.
Bote Oklahoma Rocks so hard, if you turned it over you would probably find a worm underneath
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Old 07-11-2002, 02:19 PM   #18
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Free Advice

t'aultaun ondep

Your free advice is gratefully accepted. We need to learn as
much as possible about the Kiowa Culture.
The Kiowa warriors of the past were some of the best
light cavalry the world has ever seen.
Ah Ho

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Old 07-11-2002, 02:19 PM   #19
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thanks to the info on this society tia-piah
t'aultaun ondep - lots of info from you, many thanks
I have seen gourd dancing in TN (one time at mt juliet) i think they came in from OK back in '91

anyway, never really understood the dancing and the putting money down at everyones feet (honor I think) got to watch some dancing over at union grove NC, still left me confused

but i am glad someone on here knows and was willing to share.
thanks again
one of our guys from here Eddie Swimmer he gourd dances, don't know what society or anything but he dances
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Old 07-12-2002, 01:29 PM   #20
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Re Smiling Badger


Thanks but no I choose to dance with my Cherokee people & my Kiowa relations , Grandpa always told me "if you cant go out there and have good feelings for EVERYBODY then don't dance"
but thanks for the invite , I think what T'aultaun Ondep said you should realy take to heart especily about listening to what the Kiowa people have to say & not getting it secound hand ,ask MR Horse he is a very knowledgable man & a great singer I was very honnerd to have met him when my father was asked to be headman dancer at the Horse family dance.( this posting goes out with love & understanding not malice)
LWB
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