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Old 08-05-2001, 05:12 AM   #1
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Wink Mustang Songs

A while back a friend gave me a sheet that had Lenord Cozad Sr. talking about the songs that were recorded on Kiowa Gourd dance songs part one and two.

Cozad said he added the Musatng songs on there so they would not be lost. So I was wondering where thease songs come from and if they are related to more then just the kiowas? Thanks.....................
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Old 08-06-2001, 12:42 AM   #2
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As I have been told, the Mustang Songs are usually the last set of the Gourd Dance and are the faster songs. The name Mustang Songs is in reference to the fast tempo as the drum sounds like horses running across the plains.
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Old 08-06-2001, 10:20 AM   #3
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I have a question about the Mustang songs on that recording. If the Mustang songs are sang at the end of the Gourd Dance then why are the first 3 songs Mustang? I was under the impression that the order in which the songs were sung on the recording is the order in which they should be sung.

Are the songs sung out of order on the recording or are the other songs faster the Mustangs?
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Old 08-06-2001, 02:14 PM   #4
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I haven't heard that tape in years, but traditionally (sp?) the Mustang Songs do come at the end. Sometimes on recordings the songs aren't in any particular order. I am not sure why the fast songs came first on this particular one.
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Old 08-06-2001, 02:22 PM   #5
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I believe the mustang songs are generally the more upbeat songs. They are not however, the songs of the last gourd set. The songs that are sang during the last set have a different name. The Kiowa Gourd dance recording from Indian House is a good example of gourd dance singing. The singers on the album were the best in their day. This is how you should hear it at an actual gourd dance. The songs are in perfect order as I recall.

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Old 08-06-2001, 07:34 PM   #6
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The Mustang songs relate to one of the several Kiowa warrior societies which no longer exist. I understood it to be comprised of young men. These Mustang songs were absorbed into the tai-pe-go. This could have happened around the turn of the century or as late as the 1950s when the Kiowa gourd dance was "revived." Brown Hornet is right--they are different from the songs sung during the last set. You often will hear several of the Mustang songs, which are at a faster clip, sung together during the brush dance.
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Old 08-07-2001, 01:30 AM   #7
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I do not know if I am spelling this correctly but those songs that are sang as the last set at end of the gourd dance are called 'paddle toe gah' songs.
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Old 08-07-2001, 08:47 PM   #8
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I dont know if you spelled it correctly either! Its pronounced like "paw" "dull" 'daw" "gya" pBal(fast, jazzy) dawgya
(song)


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Old 08-14-2001, 09:33 AM   #9
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In addition to your original question TMS, are there other Mustang songs sung during the Gourd dance other than the the ones on that tape?

[ August 15, 2001: Message edited by: Travelingmocs ]
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Old 08-15-2001, 01:36 PM   #10
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Of course there are more of those songs than are on that tape. These two tapes are just a sampling of Gourd Dance Songs. There are several more of these faster songs that you woiuld hear toward the end of a Gourd Dance. You'll certainly hear some of the songs on that tape, but among them, you'll hear other "Mustang" songs as well.

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Old 08-15-2001, 05:53 PM   #11
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I guess my question is were Mustang songs originally composed as Gourd Dance songs? If so why arent they called Gourd Dance songs instead of Mustang songs? Where do they come from...
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Old 08-15-2001, 09:02 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally posted by wyat:
I guess my question is were Mustang songs originally composed as Gourd Dance songs? If so why arent they called Gourd Dance songs instead of Mustang songs? Where do they come from...
I think we covered this once before. These songs are "probably" from another Kiowa military society called Tse`ta'nma, or Horse Headress. The organization fell into disuse in the early 1900's but as frequently happens, the songs are the last thing to be forgotten and when they are remembered they are usually incorporated for other purposes.
Unfortunately there is probably no one alive who can speak with any authority to this matter. So, we just have to enjoy the songs as they are meant to be used today.
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Old 08-21-2001, 03:02 PM   #13
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Cool

wyat, these song that you are asking about come from the Kiowa gourd clan, there are a few other groups that claim they came out with this dance first. but it comes from the kiowa gourd clan in Carnagie, OK. these mustang songs are old timey song that were used before the regular songs came along, but they are used at the end of the dance. My grandpa was Oscar Tsoodle and one of the original members of the Kiowa gourd clan and he had most of the original stories of were these songs came from.
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Old 08-22-2001, 09:56 PM   #14
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Kudo's to Park! You have done yur homework. (I love to study them Kiowas n their Kulture)"you hafta say the K's with a click!"


KIOWA GOURD SINGING 101:

The Kiowas originally had a society of young warriors (apart from the "Camp Police and Rough Riders" who were the Tdien-Pay-Gah (sp?) or present day Kiowa gourd dance societies). These young warriors were called the Young Mustangs. Like the other Kiowa societies, the Young Mustangs had songs specific to their society. (Much the same as the Kiowa Rabbit Society, who also have their own songs).

The young mustangs no longer exist as a formal Kiowa society. Some of their songs have been absorbed by the gourd dance societies. Their drum beat is exactly the same. During the modern gourd dance these "mustang songs" are sung either near the beginning set, when the oldest of gourd dance songs are sung or shortly thereafter.

The Kiowa brush dance also has certain songs that pertain to this symbolic "bringing the drum into the arena." Any song that does not belong in the brush dance set, will definitely not go unnoticed by accomplished Kiowa gourd singers.

Kudo's to Powwowbum49! The final four songs are Pbal-Dahl-Gah (sp?) or songs with a peppier beat. These ending songs are definitely NOT Mustang Songs.

The final song referred to as "Charlie Brown" is actually claimed as a family song by different families. Its use as THE final song is recent, but usually accepted as the last song sung during a gourd dance.

Hope I answered all yur questions.

That's Muh Story N I'mma Stickin Toit!


P.S. I found out the hard way that unless your In-din, you can't dance with the Kiowas at their celebration - at the Kiowa Gourd Clan, over there in Carnagie (sp?), Oklahoma. :( Oh well, I sure did learn alot anyways!

One "more" interestin' observation: Sum hardcore Northern singers actually LIKE to hear gourd dance singin'. I went with an NDN friend to a big dance at the Wind River Reservation in Wyoming, a couple of years back. This powwow was put on by LightFoot the Indian rap artist and actor (he was in NDN in a Cupboard). I saw a singer who is Nakoda and sings with the Stoney Park Drum and another singer who is Crow and sung with the Mandaree Singers - sitting in with the Host Southern Drum, (I think it was The Zotigh Singers) during an afternoon Gourd Dance. Stranger things have happened!


ANY COMMENTS OR FEED BACK OUT THERE? :o

[ August 22, 2001: Message edited by: powwower ]
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Old 08-23-2001, 10:29 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally posted by powwower:
P.S. I found out the hard way that unless your In-din, you can't dance with the Kiowas at their celebration - at the Kiowa Gourd Clan, over there in Carnagie (sp?), Oklahoma.
Ouch. Not just Indian, though. You'd better be Kiowa to try dancing or singing (or even camping) with the Gourd Clan in "downtown" Carnegie.
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Old 08-24-2001, 07:29 PM   #16
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Park:

I have to disagree. Seems the one year I went, they had other visitors who were dancin' with "the Clan."

Individuals placed money in front of That Indian Announcer who was the Comanche Tribal Chairman at the time. I think his last name is Coffee or tea or some kind of hot drink.

The Kiowa Gourd Clan also gave this dance to the Otos and I heard there were several there who were from this tribe participating.

I also heard them call up a man named Henry Collins (Ponca). He came up in full gourd dance regalia to someone's give away. Seems to me he was/is some big time modern song composer.

Just some observations from someone who has his ears and eyes open. Sorry I had to open my mouth this time.
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Old 08-24-2001, 08:08 PM   #17
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Don't let the (few) exceptions swallow the rule. My point is: I know plenty o' people who thought they could saunter in downtown, much to their surprise and disappointment (not to mention humiliation). I'm not opposed to others making honest mistakes or even thinking they're more than they are, so long as they learn the lesson and move on.
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Old 08-24-2001, 09:17 PM   #18
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Park:

Point well taken. Check out my new subject under "General."
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Old 08-26-2001, 02:51 PM   #19
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FYI
Henry Collins has been around for a long time composing songs. You probably sing them and don't know it. I personally like
a prayer song he made.
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Old 08-27-2001, 01:32 PM   #20
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henry collins made a prayer song? when did he make that?
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