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Old 09-16-2010, 02:09 AM   #1
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New old (?)

I have been seeing this thing of honoring someone by placing a dollar on a fan and dropping it at the feet where all can see. What is with this? I know Smoky started waving the dollar in the air for all to notice him placing it at the feet but this is different.

I still don't like the line dancing thing either.
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Old 09-16-2010, 10:44 AM   #2
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to me a person isn't honoring someone else by attempting to draw attention to themself instead. And ditto on the line dancing thing...
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Old 09-16-2010, 11:41 AM   #3
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Originally Posted by streamhawk View Post
to me a person isn't honoring someone else by attempting to draw attention to themself instead. And ditto on the line dancing thing...
I agree.

When we go put gifts at the feet of a person during a dance we are helping them in their mini-give away.

That is why they ask someone to come stand by the person they are honouring so that, when the dance ends, that person can pick up the gifts in front of the honouree and give them to whomever the honouree and/or family designate. The gifts are not for the honouree. They are what will be given away. By placing gifts in front on the honouree, we help their giveaway.

Folks understand a formal giveaway where family gather gifts and call out names of folks to receive them. I wonder why the mini-giveaway during the dance is turned upside down to where I've seen the honouree pick up the gifts in front of them and keep them. Totally bizzarre.

And, the line dancing thing... At our last Gourd Clan ceremony the headsmen ordered us to stop doing 'line dancing'. So, if you see a Kiowa come help in an honouring by placing a gift in front of the honouree and then walk off and continue dancing instead of joining the chorus line of dancers, you'll know why.
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Old 09-17-2010, 09:19 AM   #4
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Originally Posted by streamhawk View Post
to me a person isn't honoring someone else by attempting to draw attention to themself instead. And ditto on the line dancing thing...

stream,

I had/have a lot of respect for the deceased that was mentioned. But I do whole heartedly agree with you.


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Old 09-17-2010, 12:18 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zotigh View Post
I agree.

When we go put gifts at the feet of a person during a dance we are helping them in their mini-give away.

And, the line dancing thing... At our last Gourd Clan ceremony the headsmen ordered us to stop doing 'line dancing'. So, if you see a Kiowa come help in an honouring by placing a gift in front of the honouree and then walk off and continue dancing instead of joining the chorus line of dancers, you'll know why.

good info Scott, think I'll take this over to the eastern side of the state and other places I go...I do my best to follow Kiowa thinking. And Who, agreed, I'm a member of the same society he was in, but we don't do that, our president is a member of the Clan, we follow things in that way. My other society I'm a member of is Kiowa. When you travel about, sure alot of strange things one can see, ennit? Strange in a, ummm, not good way.

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Old 09-17-2010, 08:34 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zotigh View Post
I agree.

When we go put gifts at the feet of a person during a dance we are helping them in their mini-give away.

That is why they ask someone to come stand by the person they are honouring so that, when the dance ends, that person can pick up the gifts in front of the honouree and give them to whomever the honouree and/or family designate. The gifts are not for the honouree. They are what will be given away. By placing gifts in front on the honouree, we help their giveaway.

Folks understand a formal giveaway where family gather gifts and call out names of folks to receive them. I wonder why the mini-giveaway during the dance is turned upside down to where I've seen the honouree pick up the gifts in front of them and keep them. Totally bizzarre.

And, the line dancing thing... At our last Gourd Clan ceremony the headsmen ordered us to stop doing 'line dancing'. So, if you see a Kiowa come help in an honouring by placing a gift in front of the honouree and then walk off and continue dancing instead of joining the chorus line of dancers, you'll know why.
Line dancing and dropping dollars left and right just to honor everybody and there mother
All of these I have seen and not just to the east
It has really gotten out of hand
I got one for you they stand in line after the honoring waiting to shake your hand
I seen a new one last weekend the man put a dollar coin on the back of his fan and wanted you to take it when he came by!
That was a bit bizzare...

I already miss the celebration on the 4th when things make a lot more sense
LOL
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Old 09-20-2010, 11:18 AM   #7
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that's a strange coincidence Josiah, I saw the exact same thing saturday (excpet it was a bill, not a coin), and I know we were not in the same place. Maybe he beamed himself over? Guy being honored HAD to take the money so the guy with the bill on the fan would move on. Just weird..
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Old 09-23-2010, 03:59 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zotigh View Post
I agree.

When we go put gifts at the feet of a person during a dance we are helping them in their mini-give away.

That is why they ask someone to come stand by the person they are honouring so that, when the dance ends, that person can pick up the gifts in front of the honouree and give them to whomever the honouree and/or family designate. The gifts are not for the honouree. They are what will be given away. By placing gifts in front on the honouree, we help their giveaway.

Folks understand a formal giveaway where family gather gifts and call out names of folks to receive them. I wonder why the mini-giveaway during the dance is turned upside down to where I've seen the honouree pick up the gifts in front of them and keep them. Totally bizzarre.

And, the line dancing thing... At our last Gourd Clan ceremony the headsmen ordered us to stop doing 'line dancing'. So, if you see a Kiowa come help in an honouring by placing a gift in front of the honouree and then walk off and continue dancing instead of joining the chorus line of dancers, you'll know why.
Hey there Scott. I was taught this when I first was introduced. I never did see this line dancing while I was stationed at Ft. Sill and was able to dance down there.
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Old 09-27-2010, 02:13 AM   #9
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I agree with Steamhawk's posting (9/17/10). That's more of the basic way to do that kind of honoring during the gourd dance. Mr. Zotigh has a positive comment as well...
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Old 09-29-2010, 03:07 AM   #10
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I agree with Steamhawk's posting (9/17/10). That's more of the basic way to do that kind of honoring during the gourd dance. Mr. Zotigh has a positive comment as well...
It simply comes down to the education one receives pior to them being inducted, that is if they are even inducted. I was instructed and instructed and instructed... on the correct way of doing business. I don't see much of this anymore. Folks simply go to a trader and buy a gourd and some feathers for a fan which "POOF" makes them a Gourd Dancer.
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Old 09-29-2010, 11:49 AM   #11
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It simply comes down to the education one receives pior to them being inducted, that is if they are even inducted. I was instructed and instructed and instructed... on the correct way of doing business. I don't see much of this anymore. Folks simply go to a trader and buy a gourd and some feathers for a fan which "POOF" makes them a Gourd Dancer.

Yep, basically, we learn one step at a time in our culture...
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Old 09-29-2010, 11:52 AM   #12
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gourd dance

Yep, it takes one step at a time in learning about certain things within our culture...Thanks, Cherosage...
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