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Old 08-30-2006, 01:34 PM   #1
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Question One-and-One

I was wondering when doing a special during a gourd dance and a one-and-one is called for, is there a "correct" order for the songs? Last couple of times I've sat-in I noticed it the gourd song was second. But there was some discussion about if it should have been first.

If there is no specified order, who generally gets to decide the order; head singer, MC, honoree, AD?

So I thought that I'd ask to see if there is a consensus here.

As always, thanks for the info.
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Old 08-30-2006, 02:23 PM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hobbs49
I was wondering when doing a special during a gourd dance and a one-and-one is called for, is there a "correct" order for the songs? Last couple of times I've sat-in I noticed it the gourd song was second. But there was some discussion about if it should have been first.

If there is no specified order, who generally gets to decide the order; head singer, MC, honoree, AD?

So I thought that I'd ask to see if there is a consensus here.

As always, thanks for the info.
hobbs,

The one-and/on-one thing is a fairly new trend that has been readily accepted at southern style intertribal powwows.

It wasn't always this way.

In a speech by the late headsman of the Kiowa Gourd Clan (name withheld) we were reminded of certain guidelines to follow as KGC members. One of these was, if it was gourd dance time, you didn't have a one-on-one. You just had a gourd dance sung for your special.

Also, there was a time when the war dance portion was going on, and a special took place, they would simply have one wardance song sung for the honoree (aka. a personal, family, veterans, chief's or giveaway song).


"It's funny how powwows change tradition."
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Old 08-30-2006, 02:26 PM   #3
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I sure hear you WhoMe, it seems that many things go on during the time alotted for gourd dance, besides gourd dancing. But to address the question, all the one and one's I've seen, the gourd song comes second after the special.
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Old 08-30-2006, 07:31 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WhoMe
...if it was gourd dance time, you didn't have a one-on-one. You just had a gourd dance sung for your special.

Also, there was a time when the war dance portion was going on, and a special took place, they would simply have one wardance song sung for the honoree (aka. a personal, family, veterans, chief's or giveaway song).
I think the above quote WhoMe provided from a headsman of the Gourd Clan is a very good answer.

Which song goes first when one isn't suppose to mix songs?

LOL
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Old 08-31-2006, 08:55 AM   #5
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So, where did the one-and-one originate?
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Old 08-31-2006, 09:10 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Singerdad
So, where did the one-and-one originate?
Singerdad, great question! I was just getting ready to ask this myself

Until the last couple of years, it had been a while since I'd really looked at the gourd dance. I don't really remember if it was done when I was a punk or not. However, now that I am intent on learning these songs and more importantly trying to understand that which happens at a gourd dance, I'm curious to know why things are done. This seems, based on the great responses above (thanks), to be a relatively "new" trend so it would be interesting to me to know when it started and maybe even where if that can be discovered.

Unfortunately, my exposure is limited as I'm now on the east coast where it seems that the only place to really find any gourd dancing is at hobbs powwows. I had hoped to get to OK this past July to see it live and up close, but family issues prevented. Luckily for me, there's always next year.
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Old 09-01-2006, 11:55 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Singerdad
So, where did the one-and-one originate?
I always got the sense that it started out west - maybe in NM or AZ in the 1960s or 1970s, then got picked up by a FEW non-Kiowas back in OK. Even at the vast majority of non-Kiowa gourd dances in OK, its no where near as common as in NM - dang, every gourd dance out here has like 12 1&1 sets.... I think you could make a strong case that they aren't really even true "gourd dances" - just "pre-powwow socials" that just happen to be using gourd dance songs for better or worse (and there's alot of worse!).

Maybe WhoMe and Zotigh could ask some of their "connections" here in NM who were around in the 1950s, 60s and 70s and see what they have to say.... Ralph would probably have some good insight on this question....
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Old 09-01-2006, 12:37 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Str8Dancer49
I always got the sense that it started out west - maybe in NM or AZ in the 1960s or 1970s, then got picked up by a FEW non-Kiowas back in OK. Even at the vast majority of non-Kiowa gourd dances in OK, its no where near as common as in NM - dang, every gourd dance out here has like 12 1&1 sets.... I think you could make a strong case that they aren't really even true "gourd dances" - just "pre-powwow socials" that just happen to be using gourd dance songs for better or worse (and there's alot of worse!).

Maybe WhoMe and Zotigh could ask some of their "connections" here in NM who were around in the 1950s, 60s and 70s and see what they have to say.... Ralph would probably have some good insight on this question....

Str8,

That is a really good theory that the 1 and/on 1 began in NM, and deserves more investigating.

There were no powwows in NM in the 50's.

There was such a mix of tribes in the first powwows in NM, that everybody contributed parts of their tribal traditions to make NM powwows what they are today.

Gourd dancing began in NM in the early 70's.
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Old 09-01-2006, 02:32 PM   #9
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I use to see the one on one thing at Benefit powwows out "west" in the 80's but I just recently came back to OK and dang if they are not doing them here!
Alot of other things are happening during our "Gourd Dance Time" such as specials and talking and talking rather then dancing but, sigh where you can you put the time everybody needs for specials???
Certainly not during the Fancy Dancers time no no.....
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Old 09-01-2006, 04:31 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Josiah
... but, sigh where you can you put the time everybody needs for specials???
Certainly not during the Fancy Dancers time no no.....
I'm getting the feeling that at least some are seeing these 1 and 1 specials for all types of occassions. I should state that the only times that I've really seen it used has been for recognizing those associated with the gourd dance itself. For example, the head gourd dancer for the weekend or maybe the sponsoring society or something like that. Are others seeing the 1 and 1's used for other recognition/honoring?
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Old 09-01-2006, 05:20 PM   #11
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The only times I have seen it has been when requested by the head gourd dancer or host organization.
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Old 09-04-2006, 02:35 AM   #12
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I remember that the 1 and 1 in the early/mid 80's in the NE OK area. I understand that around there it was and still is for the Head/Host GourdDancer(s) as an honor(special) time. We still use it today. I know that Robert Gouladdle(SP, sorry) and Kenneth Anquoe helped to bring the Gourd dance to the NE OK area along with Granddad(Jack Greenback) and Clifford Sloan.
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Old 09-05-2006, 09:30 AM   #13
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This past weekend I attended the 46th Annual Tecumseh Lodge pow wow in Tipton, IN for the first time and saw some nice gourd dancing there. I just watched both afternoons and saw three one-and-ones: one for the Head Singer (at his request), one for the host organization (White Star Gourd Dance Society), and one for a new member being inducted into the society. All three had really nice songs and were enjoyable to watch.

I'm certainly not arguing with anyone here as my knowledge of gourd dance is very limited, but if this is a "wrong" thing to do it would be odd because it sure seemed right and really seem to work very well in honoring those individuals and the organization. It was a very nice gourd dance and the songs sung there were top-knotch.
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Old 09-05-2006, 12:26 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wojapi4Me
... if this is a "wrong" thing to do it would be odd because it sure seemed right and really seem to work very well in honoring those individuals and the organization.

Wojapi,

When in Rome.....

There are not too many people, including myself, that tell an individual who is being honored not to request a one-on-one during their special.

As a visitor, I and most people I know, respect the ways of our hosts, when we visit a powwow.

In the northeastern part of my state, they request one-on-ones at midnight or even later! It's their way. They are used to it, so it is just best to go along with their protocol!
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Old 11-23-2006, 07:49 AM   #15
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Same

Being from Minnesota, I never saw gourd until I came here to AZ. I started sining some southern songs about 20 years ago...one time at a Vet's Day gourd dance, in between sets the MC joked "Them Chippewas can sure start them gourd songs."

Everyone snickered.
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Old 11-24-2006, 03:05 AM   #16
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I have never really seen a whole REAL GOURD DANCE (NDN), only hob ones. I did it once becuase I was pulled in by someone. The 2 things that bother me at hob ones (maybe it happens at NDN onoes) is the money train and the dancers that are just there to be there.

Money Train - when someone is being honored everyone else feels obligated to join in....even is they dont know why? They dont want to be the guy left standing on the other side of the arbor while everyone else is IN LINE on the other side.

DANCERS - I have witnessed some dancers who really get into it (which I would do if I was a regular, the songs actually move me) And some who just stand there and step from foot to foot and mill around and BS with others. They look around like they are in line at disney world. (i have seen other people who are in a world of their own when they dance, eyes closed and head in the air or tilted down and to the side like they are LISTENING to the songs)

Too many people just do things to be included.

But I guess it all comes from lack of knowledge and/or openness from others when they see this happen.
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Old 11-24-2006, 09:12 PM   #17
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BillyJoeJimBob,

We've been talking about the same kinds of things recently in a powwows.com thread started by Bob (Cherosage) in June of '02. What you call the "money train", he calls "line dancing". No matter the name; it seems to be what is happening. And we've also mentioned "dollar waving", which WhoMe says started in Arizona as a Krazy mundane thing. When I first saw dollars being held up, I thought it had to do with Father Sky and prayer, but no.
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Old 12-01-2006, 06:56 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gledanh Zhinga
BillyJoeJimBob,

We've been talking about the same kinds of things recently in a powwows.com thread started by Bob (Cherosage) in June of '02. What you call the "money train", he calls "line dancing". No matter the name; it seems to be what is happening. And we've also mentioned "dollar waving", which WhoMe says started in Arizona as a Krazy mundane thing. When I first saw dollars being held up, I thought it had to do with Father Sky and prayer, but no.

Gledanh,

The next time you see a gourd dancer "dollar waving," please inquire why they are doing it? I think they may be thinking about Father Sky and prayer too! ("OOOOOH great money god who lives in the sky......") *L
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Old 12-04-2006, 02:27 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by WhoMe
Gledanh,

The next time you see a gourd dancer "dollar waving," please inquire why they are doing it? I think they may be thinking about Father Sky and prayer too! ("OOOOOH great money god who lives in the sky......") *L
lol WhoMe, I guess that's one way of looking at it. I haven't had the "pleasure" of seeing this waving thing, since I dance primarily in Oklahoma, of course the line dancing is fairly commonplace.
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Old 12-05-2006, 04:58 AM   #20
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I was taught by my grandfather (Glenn Hamilton KGC President) that you "do not split the 2".
Everytime we are at a pow-wow together and this happens that is exactly what he tells me.
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