Register Groups Members List Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Forum Home - Go Back > Pow Wow Arena > Men's Dance Styles > Gourd Dance "Our" way? "Our" way?

Reply LinkBack Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 01-23-2006, 03:55 PM   #1
PauWau Coordinator
 
WhoMe's Avatar
 
Items Devil
User InfoThanks / Tagging InfoGifts / Achievements / AwardsvBActivity Stats
WhoMe has a reputation beyond reputeWhoMe has a reputation beyond reputeWhoMe has a reputation beyond repute
WhoMe has a reputation beyond reputeWhoMe has a reputation beyond reputeWhoMe has a reputation beyond reputeWhoMe has a reputation beyond reputeWhoMe has a reputation beyond reputeWhoMe has a reputation beyond reputeWhoMe has a reputation beyond reputeWhoMe has a reputation beyond reputeWhoMe has a reputation beyond reputeWhoMe has a reputation beyond reputeWhoMe has a reputation beyond reputeWhoMe has a reputation beyond reputeWhoMe has a reputation beyond reputeWhoMe has a reputation beyond reputeWhoMe has a reputation beyond reputeWhoMe has a reputation beyond repute
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Land of 370 Broken Treaties
Posts: 7,146
Credits: 11,516.21
Savings: 0.00
"Our" way?

I was at a gourd dance this weekend and the announcer was talking about a powwow in Tucson that he had recently emceed at. (Sorry if I am ragging on Tucson on two different threads).

He said at that Tucson powwow, the gourd dancers were dancing in separate "full circles" within the dance arena. There were 3 different circles in three different areas. In the middle of each circle was one gourd dancer.

The emcee enquired what they were doing and he was told by the organizer,

"this is OUR gourd dance and this is the way we do it here!"



Hmmmmmmmm?????????
__________________
Powwows will continue to evolve in many directions. It is inevitable.

Last edited by WhoMe; 01-23-2006 at 03:59 PM..
WhoMe is offline   Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
Old 01-23-2006, 06:38 PM   #2
fish soothsayer
 
streamhawk's Avatar
 
User InfoThanks / Tagging InfoGifts / Achievements / AwardsvBActivity Stats
streamhawk has a reputation beyond repute
streamhawk has a reputation beyond reputestreamhawk has a reputation beyond reputestreamhawk has a reputation beyond reputestreamhawk has a reputation beyond reputestreamhawk has a reputation beyond reputestreamhawk has a reputation beyond reputestreamhawk has a reputation beyond reputestreamhawk has a reputation beyond repute
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: NW AR
Posts: 1,427
Credits: 382.35
Savings: 1.00
guess I need to get out west so I can keep up with what to do currently. I've never seen either of these things you mentioned. Why 3 circles? What's the guy in the center of each one doing, lifting his dollar bill to the sky? Weird stuff, think I'll stick to what I do instead.
streamhawk is offline   Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
Old 01-23-2006, 07:18 PM   #3
*206*
 
LiLT206's Avatar
 
User InfoThanks / Tagging InfoGifts / Achievements / AwardsvBActivity Stats
LiLT206 has a reputation beyond repute
LiLT206 has a reputation beyond reputeLiLT206 has a reputation beyond reputeLiLT206 has a reputation beyond reputeLiLT206 has a reputation beyond reputeLiLT206 has a reputation beyond reputeLiLT206 has a reputation beyond reputeLiLT206 has a reputation beyond reputeLiLT206 has a reputation beyond reputeLiLT206 has a reputation beyond reputeLiLT206 has a reputation beyond reputeLiLT206 has a reputation beyond reputeLiLT206 has a reputation beyond reputeLiLT206 has a reputation beyond reputeLiLT206 has a reputation beyond reputeLiLT206 has a reputation beyond reputeLiLT206 has a reputation beyond reputeLiLT206 has a reputation beyond reputeLiLT206 has a reputation beyond reputeLiLT206 has a reputation beyond reputeLiLT206 has a reputation beyond reputeLiLT206 has a reputation beyond repute
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Seattle
Posts: 1,081
Credits: 0.00
Savings: 0.00
ive never seen Gourd dancing i dont think so i dont know what its like... dont they do it down south?? like arizona, california.. etc. up here we dont do a lot of Gourd dancing but i really wanna see it
LiLT206 is offline   Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
Old 01-23-2006, 07:42 PM   #4
Taskahoi Atsuti
 
LSS's Avatar
 
User InfoThanks / Tagging InfoGifts / Achievements / AwardsvBActivity Stats
LSS has a reputation beyond repute
LSS has a reputation beyond reputeLSS has a reputation beyond reputeLSS has a reputation beyond reputeLSS has a reputation beyond reputeLSS has a reputation beyond reputeLSS has a reputation beyond reputeLSS has a reputation beyond reputeLSS has a reputation beyond reputeLSS has a reputation beyond reputeLSS has a reputation beyond reputeLSS has a reputation beyond reputeLSS has a reputation beyond reputeLSS has a reputation beyond reputeLSS has a reputation beyond reputeLSS has a reputation beyond reputeLSS has a reputation beyond reputeLSS has a reputation beyond reputeLSS has a reputation beyond reputeLSS has a reputation beyond repute
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Garner, NC
Posts: 1,029
Credits: 278.94
Savings: 1.00
Quote:
Originally Posted by WhoMe
He said at that Tucson powwow, the gourd dancers were dancing in separate "full circles" within the dance arena. There were 3 different circles in three different areas. In the middle of each circle was one gourd dancer.
W......T.......*?
__________________
To get a true picture of your purpose in life, you only get the whole picture when you listen with your mind, your ears and your heart. This way The Creator has a direct connection with you and only you...no outside interference.

When you follow the will of IT that created you, understanding that your purpose is not for you...but for IT and all that IT has created, there can be no wrong except failure to be obedient. Only then do we jeopardize the gifts we are given.

Its not the final destination that defines us, rather the journey taken!
LSS is offline   Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
Old 01-24-2006, 03:37 AM   #5
USMC
 
Zotigh's Avatar
 
User InfoThanks / Tagging InfoGifts / Achievements / AwardsvBActivity Stats
Zotigh has a reputation beyond repute
Zotigh has a reputation beyond reputeZotigh has a reputation beyond reputeZotigh has a reputation beyond reputeZotigh has a reputation beyond reputeZotigh has a reputation beyond reputeZotigh has a reputation beyond reputeZotigh has a reputation beyond reputeZotigh has a reputation beyond reputeZotigh has a reputation beyond reputeZotigh has a reputation beyond reputeZotigh has a reputation beyond reputeZotigh has a reputation beyond reputeZotigh has a reputation beyond reputeZotigh has a reputation beyond reputeZotigh has a reputation beyond reputeZotigh has a reputation beyond reputeZotigh has a reputation beyond reputeZotigh has a reputation beyond repute
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Texas
Posts: 358
Credits: 1,588.46
Savings: 1.00
Quote:
Originally Posted by WhoMe
...a powwow in Tucson said "this is OUR gourd dance and this is the way we do it here!"
This is "our gourd dance"?

Whomever that was believes that taking songs, dance, names or customs from another tribe or family is okay. That is a non-native view.

This is what it comes to.

It's not up to old folks to keep our dance. I used to think that.

It's up to all of us doing our little bit to keep our dance. It's our efforts that will determine whether our dance will or will not be around tomorrow for our children.

It's up to all of us that our dance not get perverted by others. Not get subverterted by folks like those "doing their own thang".

Some so-and-so smo-tard saying that, "this is our dance and we'll do it however we want.' is NOT okay for our Gourd Dance.

Take pride in the dance.

Each of you Gourd Dancers are custodians of our dance. It is you and I that make and keep our dance. If we lose to this type of gourd-challenged feebles, than we are the losers.

We will help eachother keep and protect the dance we pass on to our children.
__________________
Scott Zotigh
Kiowa Black Leggings
Kiowa Gourd Clan
Kiowa Tiah Piah
Kiowa Marine Veterans
American Indian Veterans


Last edited by Zotigh; 01-24-2006 at 03:42 AM..
Zotigh is offline   Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
Old 01-24-2006, 10:44 AM   #6
PauWau Coordinator
 
WhoMe's Avatar
 
Items Devil
User InfoThanks / Tagging InfoGifts / Achievements / AwardsvBActivity Stats
WhoMe has a reputation beyond reputeWhoMe has a reputation beyond reputeWhoMe has a reputation beyond repute
WhoMe has a reputation beyond reputeWhoMe has a reputation beyond reputeWhoMe has a reputation beyond reputeWhoMe has a reputation beyond reputeWhoMe has a reputation beyond reputeWhoMe has a reputation beyond reputeWhoMe has a reputation beyond reputeWhoMe has a reputation beyond reputeWhoMe has a reputation beyond reputeWhoMe has a reputation beyond reputeWhoMe has a reputation beyond reputeWhoMe has a reputation beyond reputeWhoMe has a reputation beyond reputeWhoMe has a reputation beyond reputeWhoMe has a reputation beyond reputeWhoMe has a reputation beyond repute
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Land of 370 Broken Treaties
Posts: 7,146
Credits: 11,516.21
Savings: 0.00
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zotigh
Whomever that was believes that taking songs, dance, names or customs from another tribe or family is okay. That is a non-native view.

Zotigh,

You're right in every respect.

The organizer WAS a non Indian (married to an Indian *L)

It is too bad that when a dance is being introduced to a new area, the teachers of this dance do not know the dance's history or reasons for doing things.

This is happening quite a bit at powwows nowadays!
__________________
Powwows will continue to evolve in many directions. It is inevitable.
WhoMe is offline   Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
Old 01-24-2006, 11:45 AM   #7
Oldfart
 
Kiwehnzii's Avatar
 
User InfoThanks / Tagging InfoGifts / Achievements / AwardsvBActivity Stats
Kiwehnzii has a reputation beyond reputeKiwehnzii has a reputation beyond repute
Kiwehnzii has a reputation beyond reputeKiwehnzii has a reputation beyond reputeKiwehnzii has a reputation beyond reputeKiwehnzii has a reputation beyond reputeKiwehnzii has a reputation beyond reputeKiwehnzii has a reputation beyond reputeKiwehnzii has a reputation beyond reputeKiwehnzii has a reputation beyond reputeKiwehnzii has a reputation beyond reputeKiwehnzii has a reputation beyond reputeKiwehnzii has a reputation beyond reputeKiwehnzii has a reputation beyond reputeKiwehnzii has a reputation beyond reputeKiwehnzii has a reputation beyond reputeKiwehnzii has a reputation beyond reputeKiwehnzii has a reputation beyond reputeKiwehnzii has a reputation beyond reputeKiwehnzii has a reputation beyond reputeKiwehnzii has a reputation beyond repute
Join Date: Mar 2001
Posts: 2,893
Credits: 0.00
Savings: 0.00
This situation is likened to what's happening to the jingle dress, prairie chicken dance, etc.

perverted, subverted, whatever.......... when these dances are subject to public viewing/participation the true meaning becomes distorted.

These dances are still here because........... they were threatened. If not for the wisdom of those who took them underground at the time that the dominant society wanted all these heathen practices stopped, ........... they wouldn't be here.

Sharing is good, but when these instances occur, doesn't it make us stop & think .... maybe these dances should be hidden again.

When are we ever gonna learn?
Kiwehnzii is offline   Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
Old 01-25-2006, 01:31 AM   #8
a.k.a Numunu1971
 
Kio-Manche's Avatar
 
User InfoThanks / Tagging InfoGifts / Achievements / AwardsvBActivity Stats
Kio-Manche has a reputation beyond repute
Kio-Manche has a reputation beyond reputeKio-Manche has a reputation beyond reputeKio-Manche has a reputation beyond reputeKio-Manche has a reputation beyond reputeKio-Manche has a reputation beyond reputeKio-Manche has a reputation beyond reputeKio-Manche has a reputation beyond reputeKio-Manche has a reputation beyond reputeKio-Manche has a reputation beyond reputeKio-Manche has a reputation beyond reputeKio-Manche has a reputation beyond reputeKio-Manche has a reputation beyond reputeKio-Manche has a reputation beyond reputeKio-Manche has a reputation beyond reputeKio-Manche has a reputation beyond reputeKio-Manche has a reputation beyond reputeKio-Manche has a reputation beyond repute
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Ponca City, Ok. Born and Raised in Lawton Ok.
Posts: 1,552
Credits: 50.00
Savings: 0.00
Hmmm... I wonder if this has anything to do with all those weird crop circles that the white farmers have been complaining about????? Makes you wonder ay?

Good words by Zotigh by the way. I, once again, agree wholeheartedly with you.

Perhaps this thing WhoMe was talking about, the circle dancers is a result of the 80's.....any breakdancers out there? ???

I for one, will continue to gourd dance in a traditional manner. Besides, if I don't, I have half a dozen Uncles and cousins, who will shame me out if i don't.
__________________
Kio-Manche
Oklahoma Proud!!!
Kio-Manche is offline   Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
Old 01-25-2006, 07:49 AM   #9
Pow Wow Visitor
 
User InfoThanks / Tagging InfoGifts / Achievements / AwardsvBActivity Stats
KSComanche is off the scaleKSComanche is off the scaleKSComanche is off the scaleKSComanche is off the scaleKSComanche is off the scaleKSComanche is off the scaleKSComanche is off the scaleKSComanche is off the scaleKSComanche is off the scaleKSComanche is off the scaleKSComanche is off the scale
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 23
Credits: 0.00
Savings: 0.00
Zotigh, your are absolutely, 100% correct in what you say.
I would add, that when we see these thigns happen, we need to gently and politely teach that this is not right.
As you say we are all custodians of our culture and we must all take an active role in maintaining and protecting it.
KSComanche is offline   Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
Old 01-25-2006, 07:53 PM   #10
Tiny Tot Dancer
 
User InfoThanks / Tagging InfoGifts / Achievements / AwardsvBActivity Stats
Kiowa Boy is on a distinguished road
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: VA
Posts: 38
Credits: 0.00
Savings: 0.00
Good words ? But at the same time some one should have told them to stop and do it right or not at all. Our Elders always get after us at home about doing things right and wrong. In my view this dance has only been given to certain tribes to dance, and they follow the proper etiquette and rules.
Kiowa Boy is offline   Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
Old 01-26-2006, 04:49 AM   #11
Pow Wow Visitor
 
User InfoThanks / Tagging InfoGifts / Achievements / AwardsvBActivity Stats
KSComanche is off the scaleKSComanche is off the scaleKSComanche is off the scaleKSComanche is off the scaleKSComanche is off the scaleKSComanche is off the scaleKSComanche is off the scaleKSComanche is off the scaleKSComanche is off the scaleKSComanche is off the scaleKSComanche is off the scale
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 23
Credits: 0.00
Savings: 0.00
I dont beleive I would take it on myself to tell someone" you have to stop" or to take that attitude, despite what I might feel.
I do beleive I would aproach the head singer, or head man dancer, stike up a converstaion and lead the conversation into explaining what I saw that I felt was wrong. But as my folks have taught me, I would be polite about it and not judgemental. If I felt wrong about being there, because of what was happening, I would leave.
KSComanche is offline   Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
Old 01-26-2006, 08:11 AM   #12
I don't do this for fun!
 
TacO5000's Avatar
 
User InfoThanks / Tagging InfoGifts / Achievements / AwardsvBActivity Stats
TacO5000 has a reputation beyond repute
TacO5000 has a reputation beyond reputeTacO5000 has a reputation beyond reputeTacO5000 has a reputation beyond reputeTacO5000 has a reputation beyond reputeTacO5000 has a reputation beyond reputeTacO5000 has a reputation beyond reputeTacO5000 has a reputation beyond reputeTacO5000 has a reputation beyond reputeTacO5000 has a reputation beyond reputeTacO5000 has a reputation beyond reputeTacO5000 has a reputation beyond reputeTacO5000 has a reputation beyond reputeTacO5000 has a reputation beyond reputeTacO5000 has a reputation beyond reputeTacO5000 has a reputation beyond reputeTacO5000 has a reputation beyond reputeTacO5000 has a reputation beyond reputeTacO5000 has a reputation beyond repute
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Oklahoma
Posts: 742
Credits: 232.00
Savings: 1.00
Thumbs down

When somethings is going on that is wrong it is always good to get a well respected elder who is knowledgable, get up and address the crowd and educate....

Damn perverts.....

hold that dolla up high and look to sky.... and drop it like its hot!
__________________
Dayum I make some keen DrumSticks!!!!!!
TacO5000 is offline   Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
Old 01-26-2006, 09:17 AM   #13
Banned
 
kiowakat's Avatar
 
User InfoThanks / Tagging InfoGifts / Achievements / AwardsvBActivity Stats
kiowakat is a splendid one to beholdkiowakat is a splendid one to beholdkiowakat is a splendid one to beholdkiowakat is a splendid one to behold
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: St.Louis
Posts: 1,240
Credits: 0.00
Savings: 0.00
seems like this kind of thing is happening all over!!! its sad
kiowakat is offline   Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
Old 01-26-2006, 01:10 PM   #14
Powwow Dude
 
Josiah's Avatar
 
Items DevilUser Name Style ChangeUser Title Style Change
User InfoThanks / Tagging InfoGifts / Achievements / AwardsvBActivity Stats
Josiah has a reputation beyond reputeJosiah has a reputation beyond reputeJosiah has a reputation beyond repute
Josiah has a reputation beyond reputeJosiah has a reputation beyond reputeJosiah has a reputation beyond reputeJosiah has a reputation beyond reputeJosiah has a reputation beyond reputeJosiah has a reputation beyond reputeJosiah has a reputation beyond reputeJosiah has a reputation beyond reputeJosiah has a reputation beyond reputeJosiah has a reputation beyond reputeJosiah has a reputation beyond reputeJosiah has a reputation beyond reputeJosiah has a reputation beyond reputeJosiah has a reputation beyond reputeJosiah has a reputation beyond repute
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Center of the Universe: Oklahoma
Posts: 7,096
Blog Entries: 4
Credits: 37,423.92
Savings: 1.00
I have heard that Gourd Dancing is really getting popular in New Mexico and Arizona
Seems strange that they would announce that they were doing it there way...
I too have seen a few things that are done differently in the Southeast but Gourd Dancing is not very popular
I was asked by a spectator after a session if that was the whole Powwow
hahahaha
So gourd dancing is not common around here
__________________
ᎠᏂᎩᏚᏩᎩ - Anigiduwagi
Till I Die!
Josiah is offline   Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
Old 01-28-2006, 09:51 PM   #15
kitozudoto
 
injunboy's Avatar
 
User InfoThanks / Tagging InfoGifts / Achievements / AwardsvBActivity Stats
injunboy has a reputation beyond repute
injunboy has a reputation beyond reputeinjunboy has a reputation beyond reputeinjunboy has a reputation beyond reputeinjunboy has a reputation beyond reputeinjunboy has a reputation beyond reputeinjunboy has a reputation beyond reputeinjunboy has a reputation beyond reputeinjunboy has a reputation beyond reputeinjunboy has a reputation beyond reputeinjunboy has a reputation beyond reputeinjunboy has a reputation beyond reputeinjunboy has a reputation beyond reputeinjunboy has a reputation beyond reputeinjunboy has a reputation beyond reputeinjunboy has a reputation beyond reputeinjunboy has a reputation beyond repute
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: nizhoni arizoni
Posts: 2,511
Credits: 1,812.27
Savings: 0.00
nice thread, but it sounds like this was an isolated incident. most likely it we may never see it again.
__________________
thanks dad for showing me the way, teaching me the language, and not leaving my mother...*L*

*RoUg3 MoD sTaTuS*
injunboy is offline   Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
Old 01-30-2006, 04:29 PM   #16
PauWau Coordinator
 
WhoMe's Avatar
 
Items Devil
User InfoThanks / Tagging InfoGifts / Achievements / AwardsvBActivity Stats
WhoMe has a reputation beyond reputeWhoMe has a reputation beyond reputeWhoMe has a reputation beyond repute
WhoMe has a reputation beyond reputeWhoMe has a reputation beyond reputeWhoMe has a reputation beyond reputeWhoMe has a reputation beyond reputeWhoMe has a reputation beyond reputeWhoMe has a reputation beyond reputeWhoMe has a reputation beyond reputeWhoMe has a reputation beyond reputeWhoMe has a reputation beyond reputeWhoMe has a reputation beyond reputeWhoMe has a reputation beyond reputeWhoMe has a reputation beyond reputeWhoMe has a reputation beyond reputeWhoMe has a reputation beyond reputeWhoMe has a reputation beyond reputeWhoMe has a reputation beyond repute
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Land of 370 Broken Treaties
Posts: 7,146
Credits: 11,516.21
Savings: 0.00
Quote:
Originally Posted by injunboy
nice thread, but it sounds like this was an isolated incident. most likely it we may never see it again.

injun,

Maybe not.

But I bet we do see "other tribes" as saying this gourd dance is "our way?"
__________________
Powwows will continue to evolve in many directions. It is inevitable.
WhoMe is offline   Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
Old 02-01-2006, 03:52 PM   #17
Southwest Ryda
 
ak_from_dine_nation's Avatar
 
User InfoThanks / Tagging InfoGifts / Achievements / AwardsvBActivity Stats
ak_from_dine_nation is a name known to all
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: NEW MEXICO
Posts: 114
Credits: 0.00
Savings: 0.00
Red face

Quote:
Originally Posted by WhoMe
Zotigh,

You're right in every respect.

The organizer WAS a non Indian (married to an Indian *L)

It is too bad that when a dance is being introduced to a new area, the teachers of this dance do not know the dance's history or reasons for doing things.

This is happening quite a bit at powwows nowadays!
I never seen the three circles but like I said in your other thread .Just blame the white people.You said the lady was non native right!
ak_from_dine_nation is offline   Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
Sponsored Links
Reply

Bookmarks


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off

    

Join the online community forum celebrating Native American Culture, Pow Wows, tribes, music, art, and history.

Join PowWows.com Today!

Your Guide to Native American Pow Wows Since 1996

Register For Free

Enjoy the benefits of being a member of PowWows.com!

Join our Native American online community focused on Pow Wow singing, dancing, crafts, Native American music, Native American videos, and more.

Add your Pow Wow to our Calendar

Share your photos and videos

Play games, enter contests, and much more!






New Threads

Pow Wow Calendar Search

 
Month: Year:

Location:
Facebook Profile Images

Videos

Featured Articles

Dance Styles

Crafts

Gallery