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Old 04-25-2002, 12:03 AM   #1
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Societies

Who belongs to a veterans society and which one? Tell us about your society if you will.
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Old 04-28-2002, 01:23 AM   #2
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I'll start this section by telling about my veterans society.

I am a member of the Quapaw Intertribal Guord Society. We are a real society sponsored by the Tai-Pai Society of the Kiowa Tribe. We had representatives go to Carnegie, OK for their sanctioning our society. We are not Tai-Pai, but rather all Indian Veterans that live in or around Quapaw OK. Some are Quapaw or part Quapaw(Ogahpah people). We are a small in numbers society. We have been the host organization or co-host Guord Society at many dances. These include the Quapaw Tribal Powwow, Ottawa Tribe of OK Powwow, NEO Dances, I.I.C.O.T., etc.. WE are proud of our membership and Womens Auxillary. We are glad to dance with all Veterans. We enjoy dancing and camping at all Powwows no matter how big or small.

This is just a tid bit of our society, how about yours? I would like to hear from all of the Kiowas, especially the blackleggings.
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Old 06-11-2002, 11:39 PM   #3
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We'll go next

I am a Headsmen of the Memphis Tia Piah Big River Clan. We are a group based in Northeastern Arkansas and Western Tennesse.
we are also a part of the Kiowa Tia Piah at Cheften Park and go every year. I am also a member of the Cherokee Gourd Clan or Talking Leaves of Oklahoma. All of these organizations fall under the diriection and leadership of the Kiowa Tia Piah we are proud to do our part to keep these dances and songs alive. If you would like anymore information on this please message me.
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Old 06-12-2002, 01:29 AM   #4
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Thanks Headsman:
I've danced with some of you members.
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Old 09-15-2004, 05:23 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Headsmen
I am a Headsmen of the Memphis Tia Piah Big River Clan. We are a group based in Northeastern Arkansas and Western Tennesse.
we are also a part of the Kiowa Tia Piah at Cheften Park and go every year. I am also a member of the Cherokee Gourd Clan or Talking Leaves of Oklahoma. All of these organizations fall under the diriection and leadership of the Kiowa Tia Piah we are proud to do our part to keep these dances and songs alive. If you would like anymore information on this please message me.

Headman....can you give me more info on your society? I too am Cherokee and Gourd Dance out here in N. California. Problem is there are so many groups and no one agrees on anything. I do not wish to offend anyone but would like to be part/member of a sanctioned Gourd Society. Thanks (Wado) in advance.......
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Old 09-15-2004, 05:36 PM   #6
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Old 09-15-2004, 06:42 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by CHEROSAGE
I would like to hear from all of the Kiowas, especially the blackleggings.
The Kiowa Black Leggings Warrior Society is not a gourd society. It is one of the Kiowa warrior societies. No relation to gourd dancing. Not a topic of this forum.
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Old 09-16-2004, 01:37 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zotigh
The Kiowa Black Leggings Warrior Society is not a gourd society. It is one of the Kiowa warrior societies. No relation to gourd dancing. Not a topic of this forum.
Thanks, Zotigh. I stand corrected. What I ment to say was and any Black Leggings. I had a friend that was a Black Legging member but he has since passed. MY appology to the families. My Uncle knew many of the families and he too is now passed. I met these friends as I was stationed at Ft. Sill. My Aunt and Uncle lived at Lawton as do some of my Cuz's still.
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Old 09-16-2004, 03:48 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CHEROSAGE
Who belongs to a veterans society and which one? Tell us about your society if you will.
Being posted in the "Gourd Dance Forum", I'm thinking that you are asking what gourd dance societies folks belong to, rather than "Veteran Societies". You can clarify if that is not the case.

If it is "gourd dance societies", then I'd like to post here a clarification about 'sanctioned' gourd societies by the three Kiowa gourd societies.

I see lots of folks say, "I'm with the So-and-SO Gourd Society, we are sactioned by the Kiowa Gourd Clan from Carnegie, OK". This is not true. And, if folks read that here, they'll pass on that error to others to repeat.

The Kiowa Gourd Clan (Carnegie, OK) is the oldest of the revival gourd societies. From this main society two other branches split into what we know now as the Kiowa Tiah Piah Society (Chieftain Park [aprox. 12miles south of Carnegie]), and the Oklahoma Tiah Piah Society (Lawton, OK).

Your society is either sanctioned by the Kiowa Tiah Piah Society, Oklahoma Tiah Piah Society, or one of their subsequently sanctioned societies. Not the Kiowa Gourd Clan.

It would be interesting to see a 'tree' of relationships of all the gourd societies that have sprung up.

Something like;

Kiowa Gourd Clan (Carnegie, OK)
.........|
.........|
.........|----- Kiowa Tiah Piah (Chieftain Park [aprox. 12miles south of Carnegie])
.........|....................|
.........|....................|
.........|....................|----- Texas Tiah Piah
.........|....................|
.........|....................|
.........|....................|----- Gulf Coast Tiah Piah
.........|
.........|
.........|
.........|----- Oklahoma Tiah Piah ((Lawton, OK)
.........|....................|
.........|....................|
.........|....................|----- Ponca Gourd Dance Society


Etc, etc, etc.

(Ignore the periods...line spacing didn't work without them)


It would be interesting to see how far the branches go.
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Old 09-17-2004, 12:28 AM   #10
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P.S.
The Otoe Gourd Society (given sanction in the 1920's by the pre-revival Kiowa gourd society) pre-dates the 'revival' Kiowa Gourd Clan (circa 1950's), but still was sanctioned by the Kiowa gourd society of that time.
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Old 09-17-2004, 12:36 AM   #11
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So, with that in mind, and what has been posted so far....the rough outline would be:

Kiowa Gourd Clan
.........|
.........|
.........|----- Otoe Gourd Society
.........|
.........|
........./ (represents non-sanctioned by the Kiowa Gourd Clan)
.........|
.........|
.........|----- Kiowa Tiah Piah
.........|....................|
.........|....................|
.........|....................|----- Texas Tiah Piah
.........|....................|
.........|....................|
.........|....................|----- Gulf Coast Tiah Piah
.........|....................|
.........|....................|
.........|....................|----- Quapaw Intertribal Guord Society
.........|....................|
.........|....................|
.........|....................|----- Memphis Tia Piah Big River Clan
.........|
.........|
.........|
.........|----- Oklahoma Tiah Piah
.........|....................|
.........|....................|
.........|....................|----- Ponca Gourd Dance Society

Etc, etc, etc...


Still....would be interesting to see the ties.
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Old 09-17-2004, 01:29 PM   #12
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Scott............Are you aware of any scantioned gourd societies in California? Specifically N. Cal.? There seem to be countless societies out here! What about a society called "The four Winds" out of Michigan? Thanks in advance.....GrayDog



QUOTE=Zotigh]So, with that in mind, and what has been posted so far....the rough outline would be:

Kiowa Gourd Clan
.........|
.........|
.........|----- Otoe Gourd Society
.........|
.........|
........./ (represents non-sanctioned by the Kiowa Gourd Clan)
.........|
.........|
.........|----- Kiowa Tiah Piah
.........|....................|
.........|....................|
.........|....................|----- Texas Tiah Piah
.........|....................|
.........|....................|
.........|....................|----- Gulf Coast Tiah Piah
.........|....................|
.........|....................|
.........|....................|----- Quapaw Intertribal Guord Society
.........|....................|
.........|....................|
.........|....................|----- Memphis Tia Piah Big River Clan
.........|
.........|
.........|
.........|----- Oklahoma Tiah Piah
.........|....................|
.........|....................|
.........|....................|----- Ponca Gourd Dance Society

Etc, etc, etc...


Still....would be interesting to see the ties.[/QUOTE]
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Old 09-20-2004, 09:03 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GrayDog
Scott............Are you aware of any scantioned gourd societies in California? Specifically N. Cal.? There seem to be countless societies out here! What about a society called "The four Winds" out of Michigan?
No, GreyDog...I don't know what branches belong to which societies.

It would be interesting to see folks post here what gourd societies they belong to, and which gourd society sponsored their gourd society.
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Old 09-22-2004, 05:26 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Headsmen
I am a Headsmen of the Memphis Tia Piah Big River Clan. We are a group based in Northeastern Arkansas and Western Tennesse.
we are also a part of the Kiowa Tia Piah at Cheften Park and go every year. I am also a member of the Cherokee Gourd Clan or Talking Leaves of Oklahoma. All of these organizations fall under the diriection and leadership of the Kiowa Tia Piah we are proud to do our part to keep these dances and songs alive. If you would like anymore information on this please message me.


Headsman...can you tell me more about the Cherokee Gourd Clan? I am also Cherokee and a Gourd Dancer here in N. California. I do not belong to a Society but do dance "Open" Gourd. I'd appreciate any info/guidance you can give me. I honor the Gourd Dance and those who brought it back. I do not wish to do something that disrepects anyone. ....Wado.
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Old 09-22-2004, 05:34 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zotigh
No, GreyDog...I don't know what branches belong to which societies.

It would be interesting to see folks post here what gourd societies they belong to, and which gourd society sponsored their gourd society.



Zotigh....Thanks for responding. Wow! Some very heated exchanges go on here. Always good to share thoughts/feelings
Can you direct me to some one or some Society so that I may continue to research and learn the "Right" way. I wish to Honor the Kiowa and all Societies sanctioned to Gourd Dance. It is very confusing out here in N. California. Seems like every other Dancer belongs to this or that Society. That's why I am only "Open" Gourd Dancing. Thanks for any help you can steer my way...Wado.
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Old 09-22-2004, 06:22 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CHEROSAGE
Who belongs to a veterans society and which one? Tell us about your society if you will.


ok..ok...I would like some feed back on this question if all you good NDNs would so kindly do. Where (what position) do you begin dancing from. Here in N. Cal. chairs are normally set up on the west end of the arena,in front of the mc's table. The gourd dancers sit during the first song...shaking their rattle. The second song they stand and some dance a little dance in place. Third song the dancers spread out with at least one dancer in each of the 4 directional corners (n,e,w,and south). I have seen dancers "dance" toward the center after the drum does a hard "honor" stroke or series of hard hits. They keep moving closer toward the center until the song ends and then they (dancers) back up to the outside of the arena and begin again. Buffalo dance! Seldom do they do them out here and never have I heard a "Wolf" howl at the end of a song.
Give me knowledge....enlighten me....Wado
Also........is it appropriate to wear military insigna and awards on your war blanket? What about ndn patches..items.ie.; medicine wheels,feathers,pins, etc? Thanks...Wado

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Old 09-22-2004, 06:33 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GrayDog
ok..ok...I would like some feed back on this question if all you good NDNs would so kindly do. Where (what position) do you begin dancing from. Here in N. Cal. chairs are normally set up on the west end of the arena,in front of the mc's table. The gourd dancers sit during the first song...shaking their rattle. The second song they stand and some dance a little dance in place. Third song the dancers spread out with at least one dancer in each of the 4 directional corners (n,e,w,and south). I have seen dancers "dance" toward the center after the drum does a hard "honor" stroke or series of hard hits. They keep moving closer toward the center until the song ends and then they (dancers) back up to the outside of the arena and begin again. Buffalo dance! Seldom do they do them out here and never have I heard a "Wolf" howl at the end of a song.
Give me knowledge....enlighten me....Wado
Also........is it appropriate to wear military insigna and awards on your war blanket? What about ndn patches..items.ie.; medicine wheels,feathers,pins, etc? Thanks...Wado
four directions??? crazy man.... have to sit by the M.C. to start???? nuttz.... I just don't know...????
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Old 09-23-2004, 07:40 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GrayDog
ok..ok...I would like some feed back on this question if all you good NDNs would so kindly do. Where (what position) do you begin dancing from. Here in N. Cal. chairs are normally set up on the west end of the arena,in front of the mc's table. The gourd dancers sit during the first song...shaking their rattle. The second song they stand and some dance a little dance in place. Third song the dancers spread out with at least one dancer in each of the 4 directional corners (n,e,w,and south). I have seen dancers "dance" toward the center after the drum does a hard "honor" stroke or series of hard hits. They keep moving closer toward the center until the song ends and then they (dancers) back up to the outside of the arena and begin again. Buffalo dance! Seldom do they do them out here and never have I heard a "Wolf" howl at the end of a song.
Give me knowledge....enlighten me....Wado
Also........is it appropriate to wear military insigna and awards on your war blanket? What about ndn patches..items.ie.; medicine wheels,feathers,pins, etc? Thanks...Wado
Graydog,
I enjoyed reading your post.... seeing how its done elsewhere. I live in N. Oklahoma, grew up in S. Oklahoma, and we do it a bit different here. We generally have benches around the arena where we sit, and we pretty much sit where ever we want. (If one side of the arena happens to have shade, we tend to conglomerate). At many powwows, the drum may be at the side of the arena, so we just move around wherever the spirit moves us too. (Drum stalkers tend to look confused at this) Here, we stay seated during the first song until the drum "steps on it". Then we generally wait for the headsman to start dancing, and if there is no headsman, we start dancing simply when we're ready. I know nothing of the four directional corners, but there is a store on Hwy. 177 that we all call four corners. j/k.
The Buffalo dance is done here usually as the final dance at some powwows. And here in Oklahoma, esp. Carnegie, you will here the wolf howls, and I think that is because this is the birthplace of the gourd dance, and many here understand and know history and the ettiquette of gourd dance, as well as the songs. We have some excellent drums here in Oklahoma, and alot of informed people.
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Old 09-23-2004, 04:51 PM   #19
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the howl is a very important part of the gourd dance, it is paying homage to the redwolf that gave us those songs....
you can't leave that out.....

Congrats Numunu on your newborn...... your have a beautiful babie....
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Old 10-05-2004, 03:21 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NDNTacO49
the howl is a very important part of the gourd dance, it is paying homage to the redwolf that gave us those songs....
you can't leave that out...
:)

A gourd dance song without the howl at the end would only be an empty gesture.

Thank you, NDNTacO49.
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