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View Poll Results: Should women vets be allowed to gourd dance along side the men?
Definitely, they paid thier dues! 37 14.18%
Not in my lifetime. 182 69.73%
Yes, but they should have different type of blanket(added fringe or ribbonwork)fan and shaker/rattle. 33 12.64%
Did someone say women dancers? Woo Hoo! 9 3.45%
Voters: 261. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 03-03-2006, 01:58 PM   #261
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KSComanche
That is why you are "not affected" by "anything", and I think it is a very sad thing.....

May our Creator look over you and all of us,
Udako, Aho......
"You write well."

Actually, I meant that I am not specifically affected by the concept of women Gourd dancers because -- as has been so eloquently pointed out by WhoMe -- I am not Kiowa, I can never understand, and it is not my right to be included in the sanctum. (As such, it affects me little what occurs.)

Still, while I do not think they apply to me, you've written some nice stuff. What was the topic again?
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Old 03-03-2006, 05:06 PM   #262
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zeke
...as has been so eloquently pointed out by WhoMe -- I am not Kiowa, I can never understand, and it is not my right to be included in the sanctum. . .
Zeke,

I stand my my statement that I "so eloquently pointed out."

"Why waste my time with a war of words, if you are unarmed?"
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Old 03-03-2006, 05:24 PM   #263
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Tradition is what our culture is all about, right? I say if Gourd Dancing was started by men, then it should definetley stay for men. No offense women. But let's keep this one traditional.
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Old 03-03-2006, 05:50 PM   #264
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WhoMe
"Why waste my time with a war of words, if you are unarmed?"
Because history will bear me out as correct. "Things change."

It's not personal, it's universal.

If you have an issue with this, take it up with History and Father Time.

Thanks [seriously] for your point of view.
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Old 03-03-2006, 08:38 PM   #265
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zeke
"You write well."

Actually, I meant that I am not specifically affected by the concept of women Gourd dancers because -- as has been so eloquently pointed out by WhoMe -- I am not Kiowa, I can never understand, and it is not my right to be included in the sanctum. (As such, it affects me little what occurs.)

Still, while I do not think they apply to me, you've written some nice stuff. What was the topic again?
Nice deflection of the discusion.

That is my whole point, the loss of our tradions and heritage affects ALL of us.
if you are Native American , you can not be isolated from this unless it has no meaning to you.
It is the tradions and culutral history that identify any race as a people, and when they are lost, that culture is gone forever.
This is true of our languages, as well as our traditons. If you fail to see this , or feel it doesnt matter to you or affect you then, again, I feel for you, because to you, your people do not exist anymore other than as stories and lessons in your text books.
Why do yo feel this does not apply to you? Are you in some sort of "bubble" wacthing the world as if it were a process to be studied? Or does it not have meaning to you, so you feel nothing has been lost?
Either one is a shame, for it again defines you as a person with no cultural ties to your history or people.
Your post almost sounds jealous, that you are not included in what you call a sanctum. That is not a very objective way to view this topic. Shame on the scholar...
The degradation of the gourd dance should be viewed as a sign of what can happen to ANY of our tradions and our cultural heritage as a whole, not as an isolated incident that is "just too bad".
I am coming to think that you veiw this as a social experiement and your posts on this topic a "fun" way to rile folks and gauge responses to the idea. As such I think you are simply baiting us all to get our responses.
Being Kiowa is Not a requirement to understand the loss of a cultural standard, being Indian is.......
In the words of my elders, I have spoken..
meaning , I am done with this.

Last edited by KSComanche; 03-03-2006 at 08:42 PM..
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Old 03-03-2006, 08:48 PM   #266
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KSComanche
Nice deflection of the discusion.

That is my whole point, the loss of our tradions and heritage affects ALL of us.
if you are Native American , you can not be isolated from this unless it has no meaning to you.
It is the tradions and culutral history that identify any race as a people, and when they are lost, that culture is gone forever.
This is true of our languages, as well as our traditons. If you fail to see this , or feel it doesnt matter to you or affect you then, again, I feel for you, because to you, your people do not exist anymore other than as stories and lessons in your text books.
Why do yo feel this does not apply to you? Are you in some sort of "bubble" wacthing the world as if it were a process to be studied? Or does it not have meaning to you, so you feel nothing has been lost?
Either one is a shame, for it again defines you as a person with no cultural ties to your history or people.
Your post almost sounds jealous, that you are not included in what you call a sanctum. That is not a very objective way to view this topic. Shame on the scholar...
The degradation of the gourd dance should be viewed as a sign of what can happen to ANY of our tradions and our cultural heritage as a whole, not as an isolated incident that is "just too bad".
I am coming to think that you veiw this as a social experiement and your posts on this topic a "fun" way to rile folks and gauge responses to the idea. As such I think you are simply baiting us all to get our responses.
Being Kiowa is Not a requirement to understand the loss of a cultural standard, being Indian is.......
In the words of my elders, I have spoken..
meaning , I am done with this.
Good words

WA DO
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Old 03-06-2006, 09:40 PM   #267
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As a Kiowa I am sure you are well versed in the tradition of gourd dancing and that it represents more than just honoring military service. I am concerend about seeing male childen in the cilcle wearing the blue and red sashes what is the deal here? If military service is the only criteria and bravery in battle another then the brave women like yourself and others who put their lives on the line daily for this country should be allowed to dance inside the circle and be honored as well, only the elders can decide and the boundries made clear so that all may understand. Whatever is decided by the Elders I will dance in my place and Mattandoah hats off to you for your service to our country, may the Creator bless you today and everyday AHO
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Old 03-07-2006, 02:20 AM   #268
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Judy Cyr
As a Kiowa I am sure you are well versed in the tradition of gourd dancing...
Don't know to whom you are speaking, Judy.

But, as a Kiowa, I'll respond.

Our Gourd Dance is NOT a veterans dance. It is a male dance.

Folks take our dance and make it into something they want it to be.

Taking is not honouring our veterans. Taking is not honouring males or females. Taking is simply stealing. Taking is honouring....thieves, I guess.

The Gourd Dance is a male dance.
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Old 03-07-2006, 10:55 AM   #269
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WhoMe
Zeke,

I stand my my statement that I "so eloquently pointed out."

"Why waste my time with a war of words, if you are unarmed?"
Who Me; this Zeke guy does have a problem. I've seen him around a few times with a smirk on his face and when he's got friends around or has an audience... he gets worse. His ramblings have only pointed him out to be one of the st****ty set!!!!
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Old 03-07-2006, 10:23 PM   #270
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zotigh
Don't know to whom you are speaking, Judy.

But, as a Kiowa, I'll respond.

Our Gourd Dance is NOT a veterans dance. It is a male dance.

Folks take our dance and make it into something they want it to be.

Taking is not honouring our veterans. Taking is not honouring males or females. Taking is simply stealing. Taking is honouring....thieves, I guess.

The Gourd Dance is a male dance.
Thank you for your clarification!! In that case I am honored and proud to dance in line behind the men because it is such a spiritual dance and moves my soul. I am disabled and supposed to be in a wheelchair but the gourd dance has toned the muscles in my body to where I can do other dances and even persue my equestrian adventures. I am Madawaskan, Huron with a small amount of Kiowa and I say thank you for your service to this country and let the Creator bless to today and forever--AHO
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Old 03-08-2006, 12:14 AM   #271
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:)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Josiah
I dance because I love the songs and while I dance I think of nothing else but that moment!
There is much healing and revitalization that our customs and ceremonies give to us. They refresh and sometimes heal our spirits. Our rituals comfort us and bring us to a common "home". In a way...they allow us to connect with those whom long ago gifted us with our heritage.

Without getting all hokey, those words of Josiah stir recognition in many of us that find a good place in our dance.

This is well worth protecting.
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Old 03-08-2006, 01:27 AM   #272
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There is an older topic about Gourd Dance not being a veterans dance...gonna link it here 'cause it is germane to this thread, and..::hehe::..I'm also a big fan of TacO5000.

Gourd Dance is NOT a veterans dance.

http://www.powwows.com/gathering/showthread.php?t=12419
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Old 03-27-2006, 04:48 PM   #273
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dreams4u
Who Me; this Zeke guy does have a problem. I've seen him around a few times with a smirk on his face and when he's got friends around or has an audience... he gets worse. His ramblings have only pointed him out to be one of the st****ty set!!!!
Smirk?

Well, that at least sounds like me.

For the record, what "set" is it you think I belong to, again? "Merely curious."

In any event, I hope we all live a long time and get to see how this one turns out.
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Old 03-27-2006, 06:14 PM   #274
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zotigh
:)



There is much healing and revitalization that our customs and ceremonies give to us. They refresh and sometimes heal our spirits. Our rituals comfort us and bring us to a common "home". In a way...they allow us to connect with those whom long ago gifted us with our heritage.

Without getting all hokey, those words of Josiah stir recognition in many of us that find a good place in our dance.

This is well worth protecting.
Wado

Last edited by Josiah; 03-27-2006 at 06:19 PM..
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Old 03-27-2006, 06:18 PM   #275
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zotigh
:)



There is much healing and revitalization that our customs and ceremonies give to us. They refresh and sometimes heal our spirits. Our rituals comfort us and bring us to a common "home". In a way...they allow us to connect with those whom long ago gifted us with our heritage.

Without getting all hokey, those words of Josiah stir recognition in many of us that find a good place in our dance.

This is well worth protecting.
Good Words
Wado
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Old 03-28-2006, 08:55 PM   #276
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zotigh
There is an older topic about Gourd Dance not being a veterans dance...gonna link it here 'cause it is germane to this thread, and..::hehe::..I'm also a big fan of TacO5000.

Gourd Dance is NOT a veterans dance.

http://www.powwows.com/gathering/showthread.php?t=12419
Thank you for your instruction you seem to be the only one who has explained many things about the dance and for that I thank you I also thank you for your servce to this country, too many times we forget to thank our veterans for their service so to you I say THANK YOU and many blessings AHO.
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Old 03-28-2006, 11:11 PM   #277
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Quote:
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Zeke is a good debater.
Is that like a master-debator?
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Old 03-29-2006, 09:51 AM   #278
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ajibik
Is that like a master-debator?
Definitely sometimes!
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Old 03-29-2006, 11:57 AM   #279
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Join Date: May 2004
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Originally Posted by Huronwoman
...too many times we forget to thank our veterans for their service so to you I say THANK YOU and many blessings AHO.

You are very kind to think of our folks in service, ma'am.

Thank you!
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Old 03-29-2006, 02:50 PM   #280
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Huronwoman has a reputation beyond repute
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zotigh
You are very kind to think of our folks in service, ma'am.

Thank you!
no need to thank me sir: did my time as well along with my entire family, father West Point grad class of 33 full bird, brother class of 58 lt. col. niece & nephew (full bird) all west point, son navy, nephew navy, niece air force and it just goes on and on I do understand your sacrifice for this country and am proud to have played my part.
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