Register Groups Members List Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

View Poll Results: Should women vets be allowed to gourd dance along side the men?
Definitely, they paid thier dues! 37 14.18%
Not in my lifetime. 182 69.73%
Yes, but they should have different type of blanket(added fringe or ribbonwork)fan and shaker/rattle. 33 12.64%
Did someone say women dancers? Woo Hoo! 9 3.45%
Voters: 261. You may not vote on this poll

Like Tree1Likes

Forum Home - Go Back > Pow Wow Arena > Men's Dance Styles > Gourd Dance women gourd dancers women gourd dancers

Closed Thread LinkBack Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 01-01-2012, 08:35 PM   #781
Pow Wow Visitor
 
wanjica_the_one's Avatar
 
Items PresentDolphinDevil
User InfoThanks / Tagging InfoGifts / Achievements / AwardsvBActivity Stats
wanjica_the_one has a reputation beyond reputewanjica_the_one has a reputation beyond reputewanjica_the_one has a reputation beyond reputewanjica_the_one has a reputation beyond reputewanjica_the_one has a reputation beyond repute
wanjica_the_one has a reputation beyond reputewanjica_the_one has a reputation beyond reputewanjica_the_one has a reputation beyond reputewanjica_the_one has a reputation beyond reputewanjica_the_one has a reputation beyond reputewanjica_the_one has a reputation beyond reputewanjica_the_one has a reputation beyond reputewanjica_the_one has a reputation beyond reputewanjica_the_one has a reputation beyond reputewanjica_the_one has a reputation beyond reputewanjica_the_one has a reputation beyond reputewanjica_the_one has a reputation beyond reputewanjica_the_one has a reputation beyond reputewanjica_the_one has a reputation beyond reputewanjica_the_one has a reputation beyond reputewanjica_the_one has a reputation beyond reputewanjica_the_one has a reputation beyond reputewanjica_the_one has a reputation beyond reputewanjica_the_one has a reputation beyond reputewanjica_the_one has a reputation beyond repute
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: west of the missouri (lakota)
Posts: 1,043
Credits: 36,829.89
Savings: 0.00
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zeke View Post
I was sort of hoping that it would be...
They would have to be separated into butch boob dancers and good boob dancers. Keep the manly women to the side.

I wonder what Apachefire would categorize herself as?

Last edited by wanjica_the_one; 01-01-2012 at 08:41 PM..
wanjica_the_one is offline  
Old 01-01-2012, 08:52 PM   #782
Sg̱aaga g̱uu hla.
 
yaahl's Avatar
 
Items Treasure ChestElephantGuitarPresent
User InfoThanks / Tagging InfoGifts / Achievements / AwardsvBActivity Stats
yaahl has a reputation beyond reputeyaahl has a reputation beyond reputeyaahl has a reputation beyond reputeyaahl has a reputation beyond reputeyaahl has a reputation beyond repute
yaahl has a reputation beyond reputeyaahl has a reputation beyond reputeyaahl has a reputation beyond reputeyaahl has a reputation beyond reputeyaahl has a reputation beyond reputeyaahl has a reputation beyond reputeyaahl has a reputation beyond reputeyaahl has a reputation beyond reputeyaahl has a reputation beyond reputeyaahl has a reputation beyond reputeyaahl has a reputation beyond reputeyaahl has a reputation beyond reputeyaahl has a reputation beyond reputeyaahl has a reputation beyond reputeyaahl has a reputation beyond reputeyaahl has a reputation beyond reputeyaahl has a reputation beyond reputeyaahl has a reputation beyond reputeyaahl has a reputation beyond reputeyaahl has a reputation beyond reputeyaahl has a reputation beyond repute
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Canuckistan
Posts: 2,790
Credits: 42,587.55
Savings: 0.00
Quote:
Originally Posted by wanjica_the_one View Post
They would have to be separated into butch boob dancers and good boob dancers. Keep the manly women to the side.

I wonder what Apachefire would categorize herself as?
WTO, I don't see an issue with separate categories as long as you make sure your moobs don't jiggle all over the place when you're dancing. I heard duct tape can solve that problem...lol
__________________
A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects. Robert A. Heinlein

I can see the wheel turning but the Hamster appears to be dead.
yaahl is offline  
Old 01-06-2012, 12:04 PM   #783
str8slide
 
User InfoThanks / Tagging InfoGifts / Achievements / AwardsvBActivity Stats
rezcar3 has a reputation beyond repute
rezcar3 has a reputation beyond reputerezcar3 has a reputation beyond reputerezcar3 has a reputation beyond reputerezcar3 has a reputation beyond reputerezcar3 has a reputation beyond reputerezcar3 has a reputation beyond reputerezcar3 has a reputation beyond reputerezcar3 has a reputation beyond reputerezcar3 has a reputation beyond reputerezcar3 has a reputation beyond reputerezcar3 has a reputation beyond reputerezcar3 has a reputation beyond reputerezcar3 has a reputation beyond reputerezcar3 has a reputation beyond reputerezcar3 has a reputation beyond reputerezcar3 has a reputation beyond reputerezcar3 has a reputation beyond reputerezcar3 has a reputation beyond reputerezcar3 has a reputation beyond repute
Join Date: May 2006
Location: utah but i'm from NM
Posts: 47
Credits: 4,980.03
Savings: 0.00
the most the individual can do is govern himself according to standards that help him survive in what HE percieves as "reality."

both sides make good points but they're never going to reconcile.
rezcar3 is offline  
Old 01-06-2012, 01:09 PM   #784
Self-Righteous Injun
 
Zeke's Avatar
 
Items Treasure ChestPresentTreasure ChestPresent
User InfoThanks / Tagging InfoGifts / Achievements / AwardsvBActivity Stats
Zeke has a reputation beyond reputeZeke has a reputation beyond reputeZeke has a reputation beyond reputeZeke has a reputation beyond repute
Zeke has a reputation beyond reputeZeke has a reputation beyond reputeZeke has a reputation beyond reputeZeke has a reputation beyond reputeZeke has a reputation beyond reputeZeke has a reputation beyond reputeZeke has a reputation beyond reputeZeke has a reputation beyond reputeZeke has a reputation beyond reputeZeke has a reputation beyond reputeZeke has a reputation beyond reputeZeke has a reputation beyond reputeZeke has a reputation beyond reputeZeke has a reputation beyond reputeZeke has a reputation beyond reputeZeke has a reputation beyond repute
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Lewiston, ID
Posts: 2,447
Credits: 17,980.51
Savings: 1.00
Quote:
Originally Posted by rezcar3 View Post
the most the individual can do is govern himself according to standards that help him survive in what HE percieves as "reality."

both sides make good points but they're never going to reconcile.
One side accepts change and the other doesn't. (No, I don't actually have a horse in the race.) Given that, is there actually anything TO reconcile?

Because we all know that change is going to occur. Implying that it won't is more than a little delusional.
Zeke is offline  
Old 01-06-2012, 05:55 PM   #785
Pow Wow Visitor
 
wanjica_the_one's Avatar
 
Items PresentDolphinDevil
User InfoThanks / Tagging InfoGifts / Achievements / AwardsvBActivity Stats
wanjica_the_one has a reputation beyond reputewanjica_the_one has a reputation beyond reputewanjica_the_one has a reputation beyond reputewanjica_the_one has a reputation beyond reputewanjica_the_one has a reputation beyond repute
wanjica_the_one has a reputation beyond reputewanjica_the_one has a reputation beyond reputewanjica_the_one has a reputation beyond reputewanjica_the_one has a reputation beyond reputewanjica_the_one has a reputation beyond reputewanjica_the_one has a reputation beyond reputewanjica_the_one has a reputation beyond reputewanjica_the_one has a reputation beyond reputewanjica_the_one has a reputation beyond reputewanjica_the_one has a reputation beyond reputewanjica_the_one has a reputation beyond reputewanjica_the_one has a reputation beyond reputewanjica_the_one has a reputation beyond reputewanjica_the_one has a reputation beyond reputewanjica_the_one has a reputation beyond reputewanjica_the_one has a reputation beyond reputewanjica_the_one has a reputation beyond reputewanjica_the_one has a reputation beyond reputewanjica_the_one has a reputation beyond reputewanjica_the_one has a reputation beyond repute
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: west of the missouri (lakota)
Posts: 1,043
Credits: 36,829.89
Savings: 0.00
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zeke View Post
Because we all know that change is going to occur. Implying that it won't is more than a little delusional.
I can see it now, Kiowakat and Zeke standing shoulder to shoulder, arm in arm. Happy days for you two.
wanjica_the_one is offline  
Old 01-07-2012, 12:20 PM   #786
Self-Righteous Injun
 
Zeke's Avatar
 
Items Treasure ChestPresentTreasure ChestPresent
User InfoThanks / Tagging InfoGifts / Achievements / AwardsvBActivity Stats
Zeke has a reputation beyond reputeZeke has a reputation beyond reputeZeke has a reputation beyond reputeZeke has a reputation beyond repute
Zeke has a reputation beyond reputeZeke has a reputation beyond reputeZeke has a reputation beyond reputeZeke has a reputation beyond reputeZeke has a reputation beyond reputeZeke has a reputation beyond reputeZeke has a reputation beyond reputeZeke has a reputation beyond reputeZeke has a reputation beyond reputeZeke has a reputation beyond reputeZeke has a reputation beyond reputeZeke has a reputation beyond reputeZeke has a reputation beyond reputeZeke has a reputation beyond reputeZeke has a reputation beyond reputeZeke has a reputation beyond repute
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Lewiston, ID
Posts: 2,447
Credits: 17,980.51
Savings: 1.00
I'm already happy. :)
Zeke is offline  
Old 01-24-2012, 04:20 AM   #787
USMC
 
Zotigh's Avatar
 
User InfoThanks / Tagging InfoGifts / Achievements / AwardsvBActivity Stats
Zotigh has a reputation beyond repute
Zotigh has a reputation beyond reputeZotigh has a reputation beyond reputeZotigh has a reputation beyond reputeZotigh has a reputation beyond reputeZotigh has a reputation beyond reputeZotigh has a reputation beyond reputeZotigh has a reputation beyond reputeZotigh has a reputation beyond reputeZotigh has a reputation beyond reputeZotigh has a reputation beyond reputeZotigh has a reputation beyond reputeZotigh has a reputation beyond reputeZotigh has a reputation beyond reputeZotigh has a reputation beyond reputeZotigh has a reputation beyond reputeZotigh has a reputation beyond reputeZotigh has a reputation beyond reputeZotigh has a reputation beyond repute
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Texas
Posts: 358
Credits: 1,588.46
Savings: 1.00
Quote:
Originally Posted by wanjica_the_one View Post
I can see it now, Kiowakat and Zeke standing shoulder to shoulder, arm in arm. Happy days for you two.
lol That *is* a pretty picture.

I'm curious...other than the llama..are there any other females/males(?) wanting to dance the Gourd Dance as men?
__________________
Scott Zotigh
Kiowa Black Leggings
Kiowa Gourd Clan
Kiowa Tiah Piah
Kiowa Marine Veterans
American Indian Veterans

Zotigh is offline  
Old 01-24-2012, 09:42 AM   #788
Self-Righteous Injun
 
Zeke's Avatar
 
Items Treasure ChestPresentTreasure ChestPresent
User InfoThanks / Tagging InfoGifts / Achievements / AwardsvBActivity Stats
Zeke has a reputation beyond reputeZeke has a reputation beyond reputeZeke has a reputation beyond reputeZeke has a reputation beyond repute
Zeke has a reputation beyond reputeZeke has a reputation beyond reputeZeke has a reputation beyond reputeZeke has a reputation beyond reputeZeke has a reputation beyond reputeZeke has a reputation beyond reputeZeke has a reputation beyond reputeZeke has a reputation beyond reputeZeke has a reputation beyond reputeZeke has a reputation beyond reputeZeke has a reputation beyond reputeZeke has a reputation beyond reputeZeke has a reputation beyond reputeZeke has a reputation beyond reputeZeke has a reputation beyond reputeZeke has a reputation beyond repute
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Lewiston, ID
Posts: 2,447
Credits: 17,980.51
Savings: 1.00
I'm already happy. :)
Zeke is offline  
Old 01-24-2012, 07:48 PM   #789
Pow Wow Visitor
 
wanjica_the_one's Avatar
 
Items PresentDolphinDevil
User InfoThanks / Tagging InfoGifts / Achievements / AwardsvBActivity Stats
wanjica_the_one has a reputation beyond reputewanjica_the_one has a reputation beyond reputewanjica_the_one has a reputation beyond reputewanjica_the_one has a reputation beyond reputewanjica_the_one has a reputation beyond repute
wanjica_the_one has a reputation beyond reputewanjica_the_one has a reputation beyond reputewanjica_the_one has a reputation beyond reputewanjica_the_one has a reputation beyond reputewanjica_the_one has a reputation beyond reputewanjica_the_one has a reputation beyond reputewanjica_the_one has a reputation beyond reputewanjica_the_one has a reputation beyond reputewanjica_the_one has a reputation beyond reputewanjica_the_one has a reputation beyond reputewanjica_the_one has a reputation beyond reputewanjica_the_one has a reputation beyond reputewanjica_the_one has a reputation beyond reputewanjica_the_one has a reputation beyond reputewanjica_the_one has a reputation beyond reputewanjica_the_one has a reputation beyond reputewanjica_the_one has a reputation beyond reputewanjica_the_one has a reputation beyond reputewanjica_the_one has a reputation beyond reputewanjica_the_one has a reputation beyond repute
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: west of the missouri (lakota)
Posts: 1,043
Credits: 36,829.89
Savings: 0.00
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zeke View Post
I'm already happy. :)

We know how happy selling Sprint phones can be.
__________________
Wanjica Infinity No One
wanjica_the_one is offline  
Old 01-25-2012, 10:32 PM   #790
Eskimo wannabe
 
neling4's Avatar
 
Items ElephantTreasure ChestPresentPresent
vBActivity Stats
Achievements Happy 10th AnniversaryHappy 5th AnniversaryEverybody Loves Me!Posting GodThe Popular One
Items ElephantTreasure ChestPresentPresent
neling4 has a reputation beyond reputeneling4 has a reputation beyond reputeneling4 has a reputation beyond repute
neling4 has a reputation beyond reputeneling4 has a reputation beyond reputeneling4 has a reputation beyond reputeneling4 has a reputation beyond reputeneling4 has a reputation beyond reputeneling4 has a reputation beyond reputeneling4 has a reputation beyond reputeneling4 has a reputation beyond reputeneling4 has a reputation beyond reputeneling4 has a reputation beyond reputeneling4 has a reputation beyond reputeneling4 has a reputation beyond reputeneling4 has a reputation beyond reputeneling4 has a reputation beyond reputeneling4 has a reputation beyond reputeneling4 has a reputation beyond reputeneling4 has a reputation beyond reputeneling4 has a reputation beyond reputeneling4 has a reputation beyond repute
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zotigh View Post
lol That *is* a pretty picture.

I'm curious...other than the llama..are there any other females/males(?) wanting to dance the Gourd Dance as men?
Llama?!?

My llama animal spirit radar is out and I heard the word llama spoken.

Don't mind me. I'm just sitting here in the corner with my popcorn.
neling4 is offline  
Old 01-26-2012, 01:21 AM   #791
Self-Righteous Injun
 
Zeke's Avatar
 
Items Treasure ChestPresentTreasure ChestPresent
User InfoThanks / Tagging InfoGifts / Achievements / AwardsvBActivity Stats
Zeke has a reputation beyond reputeZeke has a reputation beyond reputeZeke has a reputation beyond reputeZeke has a reputation beyond repute
Zeke has a reputation beyond reputeZeke has a reputation beyond reputeZeke has a reputation beyond reputeZeke has a reputation beyond reputeZeke has a reputation beyond reputeZeke has a reputation beyond reputeZeke has a reputation beyond reputeZeke has a reputation beyond reputeZeke has a reputation beyond reputeZeke has a reputation beyond reputeZeke has a reputation beyond reputeZeke has a reputation beyond reputeZeke has a reputation beyond reputeZeke has a reputation beyond reputeZeke has a reputation beyond reputeZeke has a reputation beyond repute
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Lewiston, ID
Posts: 2,447
Credits: 17,980.51
Savings: 1.00
Quote:
Originally Posted by neling4 View Post
Don't mind me. I'm just sitting here in the corner with my popcorn.

Witnessing paradigm shift is fun.
Zeke is offline  
Old 08-27-2012, 02:25 AM   #792
USMC
 
Zotigh's Avatar
 
User InfoThanks / Tagging InfoGifts / Achievements / AwardsvBActivity Stats
Zotigh has a reputation beyond repute
Zotigh has a reputation beyond reputeZotigh has a reputation beyond reputeZotigh has a reputation beyond reputeZotigh has a reputation beyond reputeZotigh has a reputation beyond reputeZotigh has a reputation beyond reputeZotigh has a reputation beyond reputeZotigh has a reputation beyond reputeZotigh has a reputation beyond reputeZotigh has a reputation beyond reputeZotigh has a reputation beyond reputeZotigh has a reputation beyond reputeZotigh has a reputation beyond reputeZotigh has a reputation beyond reputeZotigh has a reputation beyond reputeZotigh has a reputation beyond reputeZotigh has a reputation beyond reputeZotigh has a reputation beyond repute
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Texas
Posts: 358
Credits: 1,588.46
Savings: 1.00
Long idle thread, but...

Curious if there have been any reports of, "women dancing alongside men at Gourd Dance."

We always see, of course, women dancing at the edge of the circle proudly facing their men in support during Gourd Dance. But, this post is going on 12 years old, and I have yet to see a woman move away from the edge and dance along-side the men.

Who would want to? Each gender has a role to play in our rituals. Would a man move to the edge and dance alongside the women? A woman leave the edge and dance alongside the men?

I am warmed by the love our men and women show to eachother in purpetuating our customs and rituals the way we were taught by our parents and grandparents.
Zotigh is offline  
Old 08-27-2012, 02:43 AM   #793
Self-Righteous Injun
 
Zeke's Avatar
 
Items Treasure ChestPresentTreasure ChestPresent
User InfoThanks / Tagging InfoGifts / Achievements / AwardsvBActivity Stats
Zeke has a reputation beyond reputeZeke has a reputation beyond reputeZeke has a reputation beyond reputeZeke has a reputation beyond repute
Zeke has a reputation beyond reputeZeke has a reputation beyond reputeZeke has a reputation beyond reputeZeke has a reputation beyond reputeZeke has a reputation beyond reputeZeke has a reputation beyond reputeZeke has a reputation beyond reputeZeke has a reputation beyond reputeZeke has a reputation beyond reputeZeke has a reputation beyond reputeZeke has a reputation beyond reputeZeke has a reputation beyond reputeZeke has a reputation beyond reputeZeke has a reputation beyond reputeZeke has a reputation beyond reputeZeke has a reputation beyond repute
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Lewiston, ID
Posts: 2,447
Credits: 17,980.51
Savings: 1.00
There LONG SINCE were reports, in Oklahoma.

Unfortunately, a server crash deleted about a month's worth of discussion and evidence on the subject about a year ago.

Too bad. :(

Because this point was 100%, completely, totally OWNED then it (sadly) disappeared.

You can't stop evolution. Head in the sand won't cut it.
Zeke is offline  
Old 08-27-2012, 06:26 PM   #794
Powwow Dude
 
Josiah's Avatar
 
Items DevilUser Name Style ChangeUser Title Style Change
User InfoThanks / Tagging InfoGifts / Achievements / AwardsvBActivity Stats
Josiah has a reputation beyond reputeJosiah has a reputation beyond reputeJosiah has a reputation beyond repute
Josiah has a reputation beyond reputeJosiah has a reputation beyond reputeJosiah has a reputation beyond reputeJosiah has a reputation beyond reputeJosiah has a reputation beyond reputeJosiah has a reputation beyond reputeJosiah has a reputation beyond reputeJosiah has a reputation beyond reputeJosiah has a reputation beyond reputeJosiah has a reputation beyond reputeJosiah has a reputation beyond reputeJosiah has a reputation beyond reputeJosiah has a reputation beyond reputeJosiah has a reputation beyond reputeJosiah has a reputation beyond reputeJosiah has a reputation beyond reputeJosiah has a reputation beyond reputeJosiah has a reputation beyond reputeJosiah has a reputation beyond repute
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Center of the Universe: Oklahoma
Posts: 7,097
Blog Entries: 4
Credits: 38,634.63
Savings: 1.00
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zeke View Post
There LONG SINCE were reports, in Oklahoma.

Unfortunately, a server crash deleted about a month's worth of discussion and evidence on the subject about a year ago.

Too bad. :(

Because this point was 100%, completely, totally OWNED then it (sadly) disappeared.

You can't stop evolution. Head in the sand won't cut it.
Reports from Whom??
I dance all over Oklahoma seems I would have heard of something like this as that would have toungues wagging on every bench from Carnegie to Quapaw and points in between that would be a BIG Deal!
And yet only silence

The very closest I have ever seen a woman attempt to dance alongside men was a Dance down in Comanche country a few years back but her Aunties pulled her aside and she put on a shawl and danced with the women in their manner. She was under the misconception that this was a Veteran's Dance and that since she was a Veteran she would be allowed to dance with the other Veterans...

Interesting how Culture is passed on by Men and Woman that participate in the dance..............
Josiah is offline  
Old 08-27-2012, 06:52 PM   #795
Self-Righteous Injun
 
Zeke's Avatar
 
Items Treasure ChestPresentTreasure ChestPresent
User InfoThanks / Tagging InfoGifts / Achievements / AwardsvBActivity Stats
Zeke has a reputation beyond reputeZeke has a reputation beyond reputeZeke has a reputation beyond reputeZeke has a reputation beyond repute
Zeke has a reputation beyond reputeZeke has a reputation beyond reputeZeke has a reputation beyond reputeZeke has a reputation beyond reputeZeke has a reputation beyond reputeZeke has a reputation beyond reputeZeke has a reputation beyond reputeZeke has a reputation beyond reputeZeke has a reputation beyond reputeZeke has a reputation beyond reputeZeke has a reputation beyond reputeZeke has a reputation beyond reputeZeke has a reputation beyond reputeZeke has a reputation beyond reputeZeke has a reputation beyond reputeZeke has a reputation beyond repute
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Lewiston, ID
Posts: 2,447
Credits: 17,980.51
Savings: 1.00
Quote:
Originally Posted by Josiah View Post
Reports from Whom??
I, honestly, don't recall which is the damnable misery of it.

I specifically remember it because it was the Smoking Gun.
Zeke is offline  
Old 08-28-2012, 02:41 AM   #796
Dances With Fat Chicks
 
milehighsalute's Avatar
 
User InfoThanks / Tagging InfoGifts / Achievements / AwardsvBActivity Stats
milehighsalute has a reputation beyond repute
milehighsalute has a reputation beyond reputemilehighsalute has a reputation beyond reputemilehighsalute has a reputation beyond reputemilehighsalute has a reputation beyond reputemilehighsalute has a reputation beyond reputemilehighsalute has a reputation beyond reputemilehighsalute has a reputation beyond reputemilehighsalute has a reputation beyond reputemilehighsalute has a reputation beyond reputemilehighsalute has a reputation beyond reputemilehighsalute has a reputation beyond reputemilehighsalute has a reputation beyond reputemilehighsalute has a reputation beyond reputemilehighsalute has a reputation beyond reputemilehighsalute has a reputation beyond reputemilehighsalute has a reputation beyond repute
Join Date: May 2012
Location: DENVER
Posts: 1,057
Credits: 31,977.76
Savings: 0.00
women should NEVER touch a gourd
milehighsalute is offline  
Old 08-28-2012, 10:30 AM   #797
Self-Righteous Injun
 
Zeke's Avatar
 
Items Treasure ChestPresentTreasure ChestPresent
User InfoThanks / Tagging InfoGifts / Achievements / AwardsvBActivity Stats
Zeke has a reputation beyond reputeZeke has a reputation beyond reputeZeke has a reputation beyond reputeZeke has a reputation beyond repute
Zeke has a reputation beyond reputeZeke has a reputation beyond reputeZeke has a reputation beyond reputeZeke has a reputation beyond reputeZeke has a reputation beyond reputeZeke has a reputation beyond reputeZeke has a reputation beyond reputeZeke has a reputation beyond reputeZeke has a reputation beyond reputeZeke has a reputation beyond reputeZeke has a reputation beyond reputeZeke has a reputation beyond reputeZeke has a reputation beyond reputeZeke has a reputation beyond reputeZeke has a reputation beyond reputeZeke has a reputation beyond repute
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Lewiston, ID
Posts: 2,447
Credits: 17,980.51
Savings: 1.00
Quote:
Originally Posted by milehighsalute View Post
women should NEVER touch a gourd
You realize you can't -- and don't -- control that, right?

Right now, with years of polling data, >1/4 of respondents say they should. (That's happened within fifty years, twenty of which was more or less confined to a specific geographic area.)

The cat's out of the bag.

Last edited by Zeke; 08-28-2012 at 10:32 AM..
Zeke is offline  
Old 08-28-2012, 11:50 AM   #798
Sg̱aaga g̱uu hla.
 
yaahl's Avatar
 
Items Treasure ChestElephantGuitarPresent
User InfoThanks / Tagging InfoGifts / Achievements / AwardsvBActivity Stats
yaahl has a reputation beyond reputeyaahl has a reputation beyond reputeyaahl has a reputation beyond reputeyaahl has a reputation beyond reputeyaahl has a reputation beyond repute
yaahl has a reputation beyond reputeyaahl has a reputation beyond reputeyaahl has a reputation beyond reputeyaahl has a reputation beyond reputeyaahl has a reputation beyond reputeyaahl has a reputation beyond reputeyaahl has a reputation beyond reputeyaahl has a reputation beyond reputeyaahl has a reputation beyond reputeyaahl has a reputation beyond reputeyaahl has a reputation beyond reputeyaahl has a reputation beyond reputeyaahl has a reputation beyond reputeyaahl has a reputation beyond reputeyaahl has a reputation beyond reputeyaahl has a reputation beyond reputeyaahl has a reputation beyond reputeyaahl has a reputation beyond reputeyaahl has a reputation beyond reputeyaahl has a reputation beyond reputeyaahl has a reputation beyond repute
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Canuckistan
Posts: 2,790
Credits: 42,587.55
Savings: 0.00
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zeke View Post
I, honestly, don't recall which is the damnable misery of it.

I specifically remember it because it was the Smoking Gun.
I think I found the reference to the competition...

http://gourddancing.homestead.com/Go...ceOrigins.html

Quote:
This was a great beginning for the new leadership of the St. Louis American Indian Center.

This dance was a contest dance and was billed to have a three hour gourd dance Friday evening. This was great, we are not used to seeing gourd dancing unless it is at the beginning of a dance or after the dinner break.
I can see where someone not too familiar with the gourd dance would think that the competition dances also included the gourd. I think there is a fine line between the regular comp dancing and the gourd demonstration/billing.

Josiah, there was mention last summer on the site of a competition gourd - just before the server went down. It wasn't a regular poster so I suspect it may have been a troll/trouble maker posting what they thought was correct information about a competition dance that included a gourd dance on one of the evenings.

I also suspect that the reference to the woman dancing in the above posted link is the same incident that you are referring to as well, if not, then there is an additional occurrence.

What I find quite strange is that for the longest time, the gourd dance was commonly referred to as the Warrior/veteran's dance. The two groups were tied together. Now, while it may have been a co-incidence that most of the men that danced the gourd were also military members and veterans, the notion that it was a vet's dance stuck around as part of the lore.

Fast forward to the new millennium where women are now seen in more combat roles than ever before - men and women both being deployed into hot spots. These new 21st century women soldiers, sailors and airmen are considered equals in most NATO countries to their male counterparts (with funny enough, the exception of the US).

Now what we see are folks saying that the dance is a men's dance and is not supposed to be for veterans ... now why do I think this turn around in opinion of whose dance it is... because there are more women veterans now that has ever been seen in prior decades. It was easy to exclude women by saying it was a warrior/vet dance when women were not considered actual vets but mere servicewoman - that is until approx 1992 when their service time/conditions of enrollment were changed to match their male counterparts.

So here's my take, if the dance is supposed to "honour" veterans, then it should honour all persons who are legally considered a veteran - that is both men and women. If it's just a man's dance, then perhaps it should stop blurring the lines between men only and veterans. Perhaps it is time to be clear that while many members of the society are also male veterans, it is NOT a veteran's dance at all.

When I was in the hospital in Landstuhl after getting blown up, my gender made no difference to the healing process and that included many, many traditional songs and dances from my NDN brethren from the US, Canada and even the Aussies Aboriginals.. no one would dare pull the "you can't dance because of gender card" when we were all struggling to stand upright.
__________________
A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects. Robert A. Heinlein

I can see the wheel turning but the Hamster appears to be dead.

Last edited by yaahl; 08-28-2012 at 11:53 AM..
yaahl is offline  
Old 08-28-2012, 12:26 PM   #799
Self-Righteous Injun
 
Zeke's Avatar
 
Items Treasure ChestPresentTreasure ChestPresent
User InfoThanks / Tagging InfoGifts / Achievements / AwardsvBActivity Stats
Zeke has a reputation beyond reputeZeke has a reputation beyond reputeZeke has a reputation beyond reputeZeke has a reputation beyond repute
Zeke has a reputation beyond reputeZeke has a reputation beyond reputeZeke has a reputation beyond reputeZeke has a reputation beyond reputeZeke has a reputation beyond reputeZeke has a reputation beyond reputeZeke has a reputation beyond reputeZeke has a reputation beyond reputeZeke has a reputation beyond reputeZeke has a reputation beyond reputeZeke has a reputation beyond reputeZeke has a reputation beyond reputeZeke has a reputation beyond reputeZeke has a reputation beyond reputeZeke has a reputation beyond reputeZeke has a reputation beyond repute
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Lewiston, ID
Posts: 2,447
Credits: 17,980.51
Savings: 1.00
Quote:
Originally Posted by yaahl View Post
What I find quite strange is that for the longest time, the gourd dance was commonly referred to as the Warrior/veteran's dance. The two groups were tied together. Now, while it may have been a co-incidence that most of the men that danced the gourd were also military members and veterans, the notion that it was a vet's dance stuck around as part of the lore.
And that's the part you can't control.

I realize that some folks believe I am just being an a-s-s about this sort of thing. I assure you, I am not and -- in general -- am about as dispassionate about stuff like this as you can find. I just FIRMLY believe that if we took someone from antiquity when the Gourd Dance (or any other dance!) originated, brought them here, sang the songs and said, "look, the Gourd Dance!," they'd think us crazy. One hundred (or less) years from now? WE would be the ones unable to recognize what things have become.

1. Some people are threatened by that.
2. Some folks are not.

The question isn't whether women will Gourd Dance (they will) or when other things across tribes will change (they have). The question is how fast things will change because, inherently, we ALL know it will occur with or without our interference.

Given that, why all the drama? Women are going to Gourd Dance. The pat retort will be, "that's NOT the Gourd Dance." Sorry. The Gourd Dance is whatever the people who do it say it is. (It's definitional.) We can debate whether that is good, bad or neither, but the issue of whether it is public domain is long since over.

To the masses, pan-Indianism is Indianism.
Zeke is offline  
Old 08-28-2012, 12:46 PM   #800
Powwow Dude
 
Josiah's Avatar
 
Items DevilUser Name Style ChangeUser Title Style Change
User InfoThanks / Tagging InfoGifts / Achievements / AwardsvBActivity Stats
Josiah has a reputation beyond reputeJosiah has a reputation beyond reputeJosiah has a reputation beyond repute
Josiah has a reputation beyond reputeJosiah has a reputation beyond reputeJosiah has a reputation beyond reputeJosiah has a reputation beyond reputeJosiah has a reputation beyond reputeJosiah has a reputation beyond reputeJosiah has a reputation beyond reputeJosiah has a reputation beyond reputeJosiah has a reputation beyond reputeJosiah has a reputation beyond reputeJosiah has a reputation beyond reputeJosiah has a reputation beyond reputeJosiah has a reputation beyond reputeJosiah has a reputation beyond reputeJosiah has a reputation beyond reputeJosiah has a reputation beyond reputeJosiah has a reputation beyond reputeJosiah has a reputation beyond reputeJosiah has a reputation beyond repute
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Center of the Universe: Oklahoma
Posts: 7,097
Blog Entries: 4
Credits: 38,634.63
Savings: 1.00
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zeke View Post
And that's the part you can't control.

I realize that some folks believe I am just being an a-s-s about this sort of thing. I assure you, I am not and -- in general -- am about as dispassionate about stuff like this as you can find. I just FIRMLY believe that if we took someone from antiquity when the Gourd Dance (or any other dance!) originated, brought them here, sang the songs and said, "look, the Gourd Dance!," they'd think us crazy. One hundred (or less) years from now? WE would be the ones unable to recognize what things have become.

1. Some people are threatened by that.
2. Some folks are not.

The question isn't whether women will Gourd Dance (they will) or when other things across tribes will change (they have). The question is how fast things will change because, inherently, we ALL know it will occur with or without our interference.

Given that, why all the drama? Women are going to Gourd Dance. The pat retort will be, "that's NOT the Gourd Dance." Sorry. The Gourd Dance is whatever the people who do it say it is. (It's definitional.) We can debate whether that is good, bad or neither, but the issue of whether it is public domain is long since over.

To the masses, pan-Indianism is Indianism.
But that IS the Point ZEKE
Who defines the Dance?
Those that Dance

Gourd Dance is a Man's Dance
Every Year Down around Carnegie Oklahoma it is Celebrated as a Man's Dance thus it is redefined

So one could argue that in Carnegie Oklahoma everyyear it is REAFIRMED as a Man's Dance

To Argue that a woman may at sometime somewhere pick up a Gourd and dance is Moot

Because in Carnegie it dont happen
Josiah is offline  
Sponsored Links
Closed Thread

Bookmarks


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Gourd Dance Song Order Gray Fawn Gourd Dance 4 08-11-2006 03:13 PM
Gourd Dance Gallery Paul G Gourd Dance 0 09-03-2001 11:17 AM
Gourd Dancing in Illinois CEM Gourd Dance 4 08-24-2001 11:52 PM
White Star Gourd Dance Society What? Gourd Dance 8 07-27-2001 08:26 PM
Placing money at dancers feet Sheila Archives 35 10-29-2000 07:06 PM

    

Join the online community forum celebrating Native American Culture, Pow Wows, tribes, music, art, and history.

Join PowWows.com Today!

Your Guide to Native American Pow Wows Since 1996

Register For Free

Enjoy the benefits of being a member of PowWows.com!

Join our Native American online community focused on Pow Wow singing, dancing, crafts, Native American music, Native American videos, and more.

Add your Pow Wow to our Calendar

Share your photos and videos

Play games, enter contests, and much more!






New Threads

Pow Wow Calendar Search

 
Month: Year:

Location:
Facebook Profile Images

Videos

Featured Articles

Dance Styles

Crafts

Gallery