Register Groups Members List Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

View Poll Results: Should women vets be allowed to gourd dance along side the men?
Definitely, they paid thier dues! 37 14.18%
Not in my lifetime. 182 69.73%
Yes, but they should have different type of blanket(added fringe or ribbonwork)fan and shaker/rattle. 33 12.64%
Did someone say women dancers? Woo Hoo! 9 3.45%
Voters: 261. You may not vote on this poll

Like Tree1Likes

Forum Home - Go Back > Pow Wow Arena > Men's Dance Styles > Gourd Dance women gourd dancers women gourd dancers

Closed Thread LinkBack Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 04-22-2003, 07:24 PM   #81
Junior Dancer
 
park's Avatar
 
User InfoThanks / Tagging InfoGifts / Achievements / AwardsvBActivity Stats
park has a reputation beyond reputepark has a reputation beyond reputepark has a reputation beyond reputepark has a reputation beyond reputepark has a reputation beyond reputepark has a reputation beyond reputepark has a reputation beyond reputepark has a reputation beyond reputepark has a reputation beyond reputepark has a reputation beyond reputepark has a reputation beyond reputepark has a reputation beyond reputepark has a reputation beyond reputepark has a reputation beyond reputepark has a reputation beyond reputepark has a reputation beyond repute
Join Date: Feb 2001
Posts: 133
Credits: 1,308.63
Savings: 0.00
To Bahnisiain

If you've only seen the dance once or twice you know not of what you speak. Don't talk about what you don't know.

With your comments, you insult the society (by the way, it's not a "thing") and you expose your own ignorance.
park is offline  
Old 04-22-2003, 08:35 PM   #82
Beth
 
Beth's Avatar
 
User InfoThanks / Tagging InfoGifts / Achievements / AwardsvBActivity Stats
Beth has a reputation beyond repute
Beth has a reputation beyond reputeBeth has a reputation beyond reputeBeth has a reputation beyond reputeBeth has a reputation beyond reputeBeth has a reputation beyond reputeBeth has a reputation beyond reputeBeth has a reputation beyond reputeBeth has a reputation beyond reputeBeth has a reputation beyond reputeBeth has a reputation beyond reputeBeth has a reputation beyond reputeBeth has a reputation beyond repute
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: over the rainbow
Posts: 199
Credits: 0.00
Savings: 0.00
women

I as a women was taken into the gourd arena the proper way and I dance in my proper place. I have heard it said of the gourd dance and the hethushka that without the support of the women most of those men would not be there. It just isn't made blatanly obvious to the public. You need to delve deeper before you go any further.
Beth is offline  
Old 04-24-2003, 02:25 AM   #83
cherosage
 
CHEROSAGE's Avatar
 
User InfoThanks / Tagging InfoGifts / Achievements / AwardsvBActivity Stats
CHEROSAGE has a reputation beyond reputeCHEROSAGE has a reputation beyond reputeCHEROSAGE has a reputation beyond reputeCHEROSAGE has a reputation beyond repute
CHEROSAGE has a reputation beyond reputeCHEROSAGE has a reputation beyond reputeCHEROSAGE has a reputation beyond reputeCHEROSAGE has a reputation beyond reputeCHEROSAGE has a reputation beyond reputeCHEROSAGE has a reputation beyond reputeCHEROSAGE has a reputation beyond reputeCHEROSAGE has a reputation beyond reputeCHEROSAGE has a reputation beyond reputeCHEROSAGE has a reputation beyond repute
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: , mo
Posts: 1,505
Credits: 1,024.83
Savings: 1.00
I need to jump in here and put a pennies worth in.

Bahnisiain:
This "thing" is a dance that means a great deal to many of us. Especially us Veterans. This dance is not from the East but was given out to you all to honor our Vet's.

Our ladies are quite honored in this dance, though outsiders looking in may not obviously see this. Without my Mom and Wife dancing behind me(my father is a deceased Vet.) I would not have made it through my military career. I feel highly honored when they dance behind me. They wear their gourd shawls as I wear my Battle blanket. In our Indian societies our women are very important. They are no less important or belittling themselves because they dance dance behind us. Indian women raised Indian and know Indian ways understand their very honored position in our societies!!!!!!!!!! I think people need to understand in great depth about these "things" before accepting at face value what is superficially observed.

Sorry for my SOAP BOX thought but some of these ways are necessary. I have a pet pieve about doing what is supposed to be done. Many of these ways should never be altered. What would happen if a man wore shells to a stomp dance or wore a shawl to a dance? This would be well noticed wouldn't it?

Just my thoughts, Wa-Do!!!!!!!!!!!
Let's just stomp 'til sun up!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
__________________
BOB
CHEROSAGE is offline  
Old 05-01-2003, 12:38 AM   #84
Pow Wow Visitor
 
User InfoThanks / Tagging InfoGifts / Achievements / AwardsvBActivity Stats
swing_n_sway_babe is an unknown quantity at this point
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: USA
Posts: 1
Credits: 0.00
Savings: 0.00
hey!

:36: The women should not dance with the men..they are to dance behind the men in the gourd dance. The women should not even think about dance with a gourd during a gourd dance song, like with the Gourd Clans. But I know there are some tribes that have women dance with gourds, like the Omaha's. That is a totally different dance. And the women take part in dance with the gourds. That is the only way that I know that a woman can dance with a gourd.
swing_n_sway_babe is offline  
Old 05-02-2003, 01:30 AM   #85
cherosage
 
CHEROSAGE's Avatar
 
User InfoThanks / Tagging InfoGifts / Achievements / AwardsvBActivity Stats
CHEROSAGE has a reputation beyond reputeCHEROSAGE has a reputation beyond reputeCHEROSAGE has a reputation beyond reputeCHEROSAGE has a reputation beyond repute
CHEROSAGE has a reputation beyond reputeCHEROSAGE has a reputation beyond reputeCHEROSAGE has a reputation beyond reputeCHEROSAGE has a reputation beyond reputeCHEROSAGE has a reputation beyond reputeCHEROSAGE has a reputation beyond reputeCHEROSAGE has a reputation beyond reputeCHEROSAGE has a reputation beyond reputeCHEROSAGE has a reputation beyond reputeCHEROSAGE has a reputation beyond repute
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: , mo
Posts: 1,505
Credits: 1,024.83
Savings: 1.00
Well said Swing-n-Sway-Babe.
__________________
BOB
CHEROSAGE is offline  
Old 05-11-2003, 05:09 PM   #86
Tiny Tot Dancer
 
User InfoThanks / Tagging InfoGifts / Achievements / AwardsvBActivity Stats
Lipan Lady is a jewel in the rough
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: South Texas,USA
Posts: 53
Credits: 2,569.65
Savings: 0.00
I was at a powwow at Fredricksburg TX this Saturday and two women were dancing on line with the men. Both women are vets. Many of us were waiting for the AD, Head Gourd, or the MC to talk to these women and escort them out of the arena, but nothing happened. One of the women went to the mike and spoke about her right to Gourd Dance with the men. Everyone clapped. I will not mention names, but this powwow is run by well known Indian people. My brother walked out when he saw this happening.

This is not the first time I have seen this. It happened in San Antonio twice in April. I was at one of the powwows and the other time my brother was there. No one said anything to these women. I respect what our lady vets are doing for our us and our country, but the Gourd Dance is a man's dance. I think everyone is partly at fault for these incidents happening: the Powwow Committee, Drum, AD, Head Gourd, MC, sponsoring Gourd Society, and the women. Is this just happening here or else where? I am so tired of people changing traditions because of modern times without any thought of the consequences. I hope other people who were at these powwows speak up.

Lipan Lady (Betty)
Lipan Lady is offline  
Old 05-12-2003, 01:57 AM   #87
cherosage
 
CHEROSAGE's Avatar
 
User InfoThanks / Tagging InfoGifts / Achievements / AwardsvBActivity Stats
CHEROSAGE has a reputation beyond reputeCHEROSAGE has a reputation beyond reputeCHEROSAGE has a reputation beyond reputeCHEROSAGE has a reputation beyond repute
CHEROSAGE has a reputation beyond reputeCHEROSAGE has a reputation beyond reputeCHEROSAGE has a reputation beyond reputeCHEROSAGE has a reputation beyond reputeCHEROSAGE has a reputation beyond reputeCHEROSAGE has a reputation beyond reputeCHEROSAGE has a reputation beyond reputeCHEROSAGE has a reputation beyond reputeCHEROSAGE has a reputation beyond reputeCHEROSAGE has a reputation beyond repute
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: , mo
Posts: 1,505
Credits: 1,024.83
Savings: 1.00
Thanks Lipan Lady for your insight and willingness to take the stand. I have noticed that as time goes on and our elders pass on we don't take these stands enough. I remember when if we were not behaving the elder ladies would come out and escort us to the side for our regular whooooopings. Where are these elder replacements. I see Elders out and around the arena but these ladies just stay put. I have seen some elder ladies do these right things but not enough. I remember one time when Grams and my wife gave another woman a lecture, poor woman, and she left soon after. We do need to retake charge of our culture, and everyone must help. We must adjust not just the younguns but these new agers, etc, as well.

Thank you for allowing me to ramble again.
__________________
BOB
CHEROSAGE is offline  
Old 05-12-2003, 05:58 PM   #88
Tiny Tot Dancer
 
User InfoThanks / Tagging InfoGifts / Achievements / AwardsvBActivity Stats
BullcreekLdy is an unknown quantity at this point
Join Date: May 2003
Location: San Antonio Texas
Posts: 30
Credits: 0.00
Savings: 0.00
Re: Re: women gourd dancers

Quote:
Originally posted by rvnmad
Very pc, whiteside! :devil Actually, your logic is very good and I agree with you. Women should not dance (and weaken the meaning of this dance). And, no one is saying any woman is any less of a hero than any man in war. It's tradition, and we have to cling to what is left of it. If we change it, it's no longer the tradition.
I am not going to lie I am young and young in the circle. But I have watched women aunts and friends dance beside the men during a gourd dance. yes there are dances honoring women but, women die just as easily as men during a war. If we fight beside men why aren't we allowed to dance besdie them and be honored for risking our lives just as they did in battle? Also, in some gourd societies most men have NEVER served. Why should they be allowed to be honored in that way but not a woman who has been on the line? Then again I also understand the respect of our culture and our past traditions. I am still being taught so I am offering my opinon to any who will listen but I am a young girl and some would say foolish in my notions.[COLOR=darkred]
__________________
When your in the arena nothing matters but the step of your feet, the sway of your fringe and the beat of the drum. ~Peace love and fry bread.~
BullcreekLdy is offline  
Old 05-12-2003, 09:43 PM   #89
Pow Wow Visitor
 
Billy Two Hawks's Avatar
 
User InfoThanks / Tagging InfoGifts / Achievements / AwardsvBActivity Stats
Billy Two Hawks is an unknown quantity at this point
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: tn
Posts: 16
Credits: 0.00
Savings: 0.00
Yes women fight and die, but it's still a man's dance and will always be such. Maybe someday someone will start a woman's dance to honor those who join the services.
Billy Two Hawks is offline  
Old 05-14-2003, 02:16 AM   #90
Tiny Tot Dancer
 
User InfoThanks / Tagging InfoGifts / Achievements / AwardsvBActivity Stats
BullcreekLdy is an unknown quantity at this point
Join Date: May 2003
Location: San Antonio Texas
Posts: 30
Credits: 0.00
Savings: 0.00
Quote:
Originally posted by Billy Two Hawks
Yes women fight and die, but it's still a man's dance and will always be such. Maybe someday someone will start a woman's dance to honor those who join the services.
I agree we should find a way of honoring women And truthfully everyone is quick to say "NO NO NO" but no one is willing to offer a solution. It is really easy to say no but it is much harder to try and understand and to offer and alternative. What else can we do If they are not allowed to dance beside the men for now are they to be ignored? Especially in the south people treat pow wow regardless of the dance as just pow wow some forget that people are being honored during certain dances, fort hat matter most dont know about any other form of honoring other than money. so what else are we to do for them?
__________________
When your in the arena nothing matters but the step of your feet, the sway of your fringe and the beat of the drum. ~Peace love and fry bread.~
BullcreekLdy is offline  
Old 05-17-2003, 02:05 AM   #91
cherosage
 
CHEROSAGE's Avatar
 
User InfoThanks / Tagging InfoGifts / Achievements / AwardsvBActivity Stats
CHEROSAGE has a reputation beyond reputeCHEROSAGE has a reputation beyond reputeCHEROSAGE has a reputation beyond reputeCHEROSAGE has a reputation beyond repute
CHEROSAGE has a reputation beyond reputeCHEROSAGE has a reputation beyond reputeCHEROSAGE has a reputation beyond reputeCHEROSAGE has a reputation beyond reputeCHEROSAGE has a reputation beyond reputeCHEROSAGE has a reputation beyond reputeCHEROSAGE has a reputation beyond reputeCHEROSAGE has a reputation beyond reputeCHEROSAGE has a reputation beyond reputeCHEROSAGE has a reputation beyond repute
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: , mo
Posts: 1,505
Credits: 1,024.83
Savings: 1.00
Bullcreek lady:

Our ladies ARE honored by us when we dance as well as our Verteran friends and family. I am a Vet along with many of my friends. I am very honored when my family dances right behind me during these dances. I know many ladies that are Vet.'s also and they are not any less a Vet. than I am. I know that many of these ladies will wear their awards on their shawls as well they should. I have heard not much arguement in the south(OK area) about the ladies not being able to dance on line with the men. I have heard this arguement amongst the women that aren't from the Gourd dance area. Our ladies know the history and the right way things are done and these women that fight the system don't seem to know. They need to ask some of our lady elders for some assistance to get some know. Some of the ladies of know would be the CIVA War Mothers etc.

I know that I'm rambling again and thank you for your time.
__________________
BOB
CHEROSAGE is offline  
Old 05-17-2003, 09:20 PM   #92
Tiny Tot Dancer
 
User InfoThanks / Tagging InfoGifts / Achievements / AwardsvBActivity Stats
BullcreekLdy is an unknown quantity at this point
Join Date: May 2003
Location: San Antonio Texas
Posts: 30
Credits: 0.00
Savings: 0.00
ok. I can understand that to an extent, but first off I dont know about Ok I have never been to a pow wow in OK. I am from texas and I wont lie that is the only experiance i have. Secondl, I know that they can wear their medals and ribbons on their shawls and the women in my life do. What I am refering to is simply that down here, (thats what I mean by south I am in San antonio) people dont know any other way to honor people except by dropping money or...by "giving them special recognition" if you will. The pow wow in fredricksburg the commitee were not planning on allowing women TO SET FOOT even behind the men in the arena xcept those from their people. That happens when people dont konw or dont care.Unless people are willing to help, nothing will change in that area therefore we are stuck. I can think of numerous circumstances where a young woman will ask for advice and will be turned away. It has happened to me. The only people who dont turn us away are to far north and dont gourd dance(south dakota area). that is where we lay. So maybe your right we dont know but whos going to help? Like I said earlier everyone says no no no but they wont help either so..... Ok im rambling to lol
__________________
When your in the arena nothing matters but the step of your feet, the sway of your fringe and the beat of the drum. ~Peace love and fry bread.~
BullcreekLdy is offline  
Old 05-17-2003, 09:26 PM   #93
Tiny Tot Dancer
 
User InfoThanks / Tagging InfoGifts / Achievements / AwardsvBActivity Stats
BullcreekLdy is an unknown quantity at this point
Join Date: May 2003
Location: San Antonio Texas
Posts: 30
Credits: 0.00
Savings: 0.00
Ack, ok my bad I didnt say this earlier but there are no War mothers Clans(once again that I've heard of) in texas, so who are we to ask? people who turn away? nothing against anyone who would help us and I will take all the help I can get. But everyone holds everything in a tight grasp those of us who werent fortunate enough to be raised with these ways are left hanging if you know what I mean OK IM DONE lol
__________________
When your in the arena nothing matters but the step of your feet, the sway of your fringe and the beat of the drum. ~Peace love and fry bread.~
BullcreekLdy is offline  
Old 05-18-2003, 01:37 AM   #94
cherosage
 
CHEROSAGE's Avatar
 
User InfoThanks / Tagging InfoGifts / Achievements / AwardsvBActivity Stats
CHEROSAGE has a reputation beyond reputeCHEROSAGE has a reputation beyond reputeCHEROSAGE has a reputation beyond reputeCHEROSAGE has a reputation beyond repute
CHEROSAGE has a reputation beyond reputeCHEROSAGE has a reputation beyond reputeCHEROSAGE has a reputation beyond reputeCHEROSAGE has a reputation beyond reputeCHEROSAGE has a reputation beyond reputeCHEROSAGE has a reputation beyond reputeCHEROSAGE has a reputation beyond reputeCHEROSAGE has a reputation beyond reputeCHEROSAGE has a reputation beyond reputeCHEROSAGE has a reputation beyond repute
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: , mo
Posts: 1,505
Credits: 1,024.83
Savings: 1.00
I don't mean to sound arrogant nor have the only info. I recommend that you seek some of the Kiowas or Commanches that go down to the Texas dances. I know that many do attend some of these dances in the San Antonio, Dallas/Ft. Worth, Austin Etc.Etc....areas. I too have attended a dance in the McAllen area in Oct. for a number of years now. A few of these authorities(people that truely has the answers to these questions) have also been there with us.

Be careful of wolves in sheeps clothing, pardon this old cliche. Some self proclaimed experts are simply self taught and generally just not the right ones to educate us. This is true with other topics and points of view that has been discussed in earlier threads. I too know that many ladies in Texas have this info such as Lipan lady. You may want to PM her to ask her for her insight.

Thanks for your intent to learn the correct ways and not just go out and make up a new tradition.
__________________
BOB
CHEROSAGE is offline  
Old 05-18-2003, 06:35 PM   #95
Tiny Tot Dancer
 
User InfoThanks / Tagging InfoGifts / Achievements / AwardsvBActivity Stats
BullcreekLdy is an unknown quantity at this point
Join Date: May 2003
Location: San Antonio Texas
Posts: 30
Credits: 0.00
Savings: 0.00
Ok, I apreciate your advice especially about talking to people (Kiowa),but many people whom I have spoken to are self educated. But I still come back to, some people are completely um.. I am pulling a blank on a term to use, but they arent willing to offer any help. So we are still stuck. Truthfully I am also sick of playing the game. I am 17 and Im still learning and my experiance has been that the women down here are either so caught up bickering amoung themselves, or they dont care. The elders who are suppose to help us learn arent.SO what are we to do? And the ones who will help, (in Ok or futher north) arent in a position to help. As in distance, money situation.
I am probably going to take your advice on talking to Lipan lady as well but more so because she does see something I may not. But that does not mean that I still dont think that we should find a seperate way of honoring our female veterans. If I may quote a veteran friend"How many bullets have to fly past our ears?" She Is my key inspiration in this.
__________________
When your in the arena nothing matters but the step of your feet, the sway of your fringe and the beat of the drum. ~Peace love and fry bread.~
BullcreekLdy is offline  
Old 05-18-2003, 07:30 PM   #96
Senior Dancer
 
luvstraightdancrs's Avatar
 
User InfoThanks / Tagging InfoGifts / Achievements / AwardsvBActivity Stats
luvstraightdancrs has a reputation beyond repute
luvstraightdancrs has a reputation beyond reputeluvstraightdancrs has a reputation beyond reputeluvstraightdancrs has a reputation beyond reputeluvstraightdancrs has a reputation beyond reputeluvstraightdancrs has a reputation beyond reputeluvstraightdancrs has a reputation beyond reputeluvstraightdancrs has a reputation beyond reputeluvstraightdancrs has a reputation beyond reputeluvstraightdancrs has a reputation beyond reputeluvstraightdancrs has a reputation beyond reputeluvstraightdancrs has a reputation beyond reputeluvstraightdancrs has a reputation beyond reputeluvstraightdancrs has a reputation beyond reputeluvstraightdancrs has a reputation beyond reputeluvstraightdancrs has a reputation beyond repute
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Southern Straight country
Posts: 688
Credits: 289.33
Savings: 1.00
If you are having problems in your area, then here's a suggestion. Why not put your shawl on and dance at your seat or on the outer edge?

I was in San Antonio at their last dance and I gourd danced, in the arena - even honored a couple of families that I had become acquainted with. I danced behind my husband and behind those being honored. I also know the folks that partially sponsor the Fredericksburg pow-wow and cannot imagine then telling anyone they couldn't dance. But I wasn't there. They are Comanche (or claim to be) and should know better. My family and I have danced in many arenas in Texas and yes, you do things different there but I am not in a position to judge or to say what you are doing or not doing is right.

Rather than cause yourself any more grief - try my suggestion and if someone says someting to you -- tell them that you are trying to learn the correct way but having difficulties finding someone to offer trustworthy advice. Perhaps you migh also talk to the Emcee or the head of the committee and find out what their views/understanding of the gourd dance are.

You must remember that most tribes have their own ways and each committee or group does things a little different. Shoot - they are different from dance to dance. So before you feel too bad or get too worked up - speak up and ask questions. If one person turns a deaf ear, thank them anyway and find another. You also may want to offer a gift of some sort in return for their taking the time to visit with you. We have been told that if you seek advise that you should pay for it. I am sure that someone will help you in your efforts.

Last edited by luvstraightdancrs; 05-18-2003 at 07:32 PM..
luvstraightdancrs is offline  
Old 05-19-2003, 01:59 AM   #97
cherosage
 
CHEROSAGE's Avatar
 
User InfoThanks / Tagging InfoGifts / Achievements / AwardsvBActivity Stats
CHEROSAGE has a reputation beyond reputeCHEROSAGE has a reputation beyond reputeCHEROSAGE has a reputation beyond reputeCHEROSAGE has a reputation beyond repute
CHEROSAGE has a reputation beyond reputeCHEROSAGE has a reputation beyond reputeCHEROSAGE has a reputation beyond reputeCHEROSAGE has a reputation beyond reputeCHEROSAGE has a reputation beyond reputeCHEROSAGE has a reputation beyond reputeCHEROSAGE has a reputation beyond reputeCHEROSAGE has a reputation beyond reputeCHEROSAGE has a reputation beyond reputeCHEROSAGE has a reputation beyond repute
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: , mo
Posts: 1,505
Credits: 1,024.83
Savings: 1.00
Luvstraightdancrs has some good words of advice. I remember way back when I was about your age, I couldn't understand all the reasons for most of the rules I was taught. I am now starting to understand most of these things. I was the kind of person that just did what I was supposed to do even if I didn't agree with the rules(protocal). Now I am very glad I was taught these things and show the respect due the history, traditions, and protocals. Sometimes we need to just do what is expected and follow the right protocal without question just because. I believe the reasons will come as we age and learn. Keep your eyes and ears open and you will find the answers eventually.

In our area the Ladies will dance at their chairs out into the arena on a line just behind the men. Should you have a male dancer in your family please dance behind him. You not only show the honor for this male dancer but everyone sees the honor within you. Believe it or not we do honor our Ladies. This honor may not be obvious to the general public But we know. Many of our traditions have hidden meanings so enjoy growing older to be an elder and teach the children.

I'm going on again, so just believe.
__________________
BOB
CHEROSAGE is offline  
Old 05-19-2003, 02:13 AM   #98
Tiny Tot Dancer
 
User InfoThanks / Tagging InfoGifts / Achievements / AwardsvBActivity Stats
BullcreekLdy is an unknown quantity at this point
Join Date: May 2003
Location: San Antonio Texas
Posts: 30
Credits: 0.00
Savings: 0.00
I want to thank both of you for your wonderful ords of advice. And I will also say, that although I may hold a differnt opionon I dont go to a pow wow assuming that people wont allow us to dance. In fact I do dance behind my fathers and uncles who gourd dance, my little brother is a gourd dancer. Lol Well, he wants to follow daddy. SO i go out behind them. I do not speak for myself I speak for those who have opened their arms and hearts to me. I wil lsay this at fredricsburg the women I was with were originally told that no woman was to be out there unles they were a veteran. The people running the dance (whomever they be)siad that we could dance at our seats. That is fine but they did not wnat to believe that my aunt was veteran. that disturbs me that men whom had never served were allowed to dance. But ~shrug~ I was defensive for my aunt who had done so much for me. Although I was not personally effected there because I was not able to dance I had other obligations until right before grand entry. I am relaying events. But once again I thank you for your advice. It means so much to me.
__________________
When your in the arena nothing matters but the step of your feet, the sway of your fringe and the beat of the drum. ~Peace love and fry bread.~
BullcreekLdy is offline  
Old 05-19-2003, 12:13 PM   #99
Senior Dancer
 
luvstraightdancrs's Avatar
 
User InfoThanks / Tagging InfoGifts / Achievements / AwardsvBActivity Stats
luvstraightdancrs has a reputation beyond repute
luvstraightdancrs has a reputation beyond reputeluvstraightdancrs has a reputation beyond reputeluvstraightdancrs has a reputation beyond reputeluvstraightdancrs has a reputation beyond reputeluvstraightdancrs has a reputation beyond reputeluvstraightdancrs has a reputation beyond reputeluvstraightdancrs has a reputation beyond reputeluvstraightdancrs has a reputation beyond reputeluvstraightdancrs has a reputation beyond reputeluvstraightdancrs has a reputation beyond reputeluvstraightdancrs has a reputation beyond reputeluvstraightdancrs has a reputation beyond reputeluvstraightdancrs has a reputation beyond reputeluvstraightdancrs has a reputation beyond reputeluvstraightdancrs has a reputation beyond repute
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Southern Straight country
Posts: 688
Credits: 289.33
Savings: 1.00
Quote:
That is fine but they did not wnat to believe that my aunt was veteran. that disturbs me that men whom had never served were allowed to dance.
I can understand your feelings - they were in error for passing judgement. I also agree that "men whom has never served were allowed to dance" seems a bit strange to me as well, especially they wouldn't allow your aunt to dance. They should not have questioned whether your relative was a veteran or not.

I just hope that you will take something good from the advice offered. I am in no means an authority -- just wanted to offer some suggestions
luvstraightdancrs is offline  
Old 05-19-2003, 03:25 PM   #100
Tiny Tot Dancer
 
User InfoThanks / Tagging InfoGifts / Achievements / AwardsvBActivity Stats
Lipan Lady is a jewel in the rough
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: South Texas,USA
Posts: 53
Credits: 2,569.65
Savings: 0.00
BullCreekLdy,
I know you are young and new to the circle. I was at Fredricksburg and The Witte Powwows and I saw the women vets dancing on line with the men. I admire their courage and commitment to our country. I know everyone does. But that is not the issue. The Gourd Dance is a man's dance. I would be upset if a man danced Ladies Southern Traditional. The men have the Southern Straight Dance. I know this is not exactly the same, but the idea is there. Cherosage is right. Look to the Kiowas. My brother is a member of the Gulf Coast Tia Piah. They are sanctioned by the Kiowa Tia Piah. They meet once a month in the Houston area. Many Kiowas from OK attend. The women vets dance behind the men. They are not looked down upon or belittled. They know the traditions and they understand. I know that the women vets who danced with the men in the SA area are new to the circle. I also know that the Gourd Group in SA is also new to the circle. I think inexperience and the idea that I am Indian and can do what I want is what is causing this misunderstanding. There are many Indians who can help. Just ask. Be prepared to hear the truth. PM me and I will try to help and if I can't, I will refer you to someone who can. A line that I have heard many times is "that was then, this is now" or "the times are changing." Those comments do not apply to the Gourd Dance. As for the Fredricksburg Powwow, the MC stated that the Gourd dance session was being run the Commanche way and that anyone who could not follow their ways should not dance. BullCreekLdy, don't be discouraged. Cherish the old ways, learn them and pass them on. That is the only way for our People. My family will be at the Laredo Powwow. I hope to see you there.

Lipan Lady (Betty)
Lipan Lady is offline  
Sponsored Links
Closed Thread

Bookmarks


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Gourd Dance Song Order Gray Fawn Gourd Dance 4 08-11-2006 02:13 PM
Gourd Dance Gallery Paul G Gourd Dance 0 09-03-2001 10:17 AM
Gourd Dancing in Illinois CEM Gourd Dance 4 08-24-2001 10:52 PM
White Star Gourd Dance Society What? Gourd Dance 8 07-27-2001 07:26 PM
Placing money at dancers feet Sheila Archives 35 10-29-2000 07:06 PM

    

Join the online community forum celebrating Native American Culture, Pow Wows, tribes, music, art, and history.

Join PowWows.com Today!

Your Guide to Native American Pow Wows Since 1996

Register For Free

Enjoy the benefits of being a member of PowWows.com!

Join our Native American online community focused on Pow Wow singing, dancing, crafts, Native American music, Native American videos, and more.

Add your Pow Wow to our Calendar

Share your photos and videos

Play games, enter contests, and much more!






New Threads

Pow Wow Calendar Search

 
Month: Year:

Location:
Facebook Profile Images

Videos

Featured Articles

Dance Styles

Crafts

Gallery