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Old 08-06-2001, 07:32 PM   #1
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My question would be who determines "productive." I would have to agree with BCT that the subject is relevant and if it generates discussion and is "rehashed" than the subject must not be coming to any kind of resolution. Just because you have the ability to close a subject down because you may not agree with it does not mean that people agree with your opinion, it just means you have the ability to close a topic down. I was watching an old TV show about the Kenndy's this morning and was watching all the stuff on segregation, racism etc. I was thinking you know if the freedom riders and Martin Luther King didn't keep "rehashing" that whole racism thing, African Americans might still have seperate water fountains and those "wonderful" conditions they were subjected to.

Some thoughts from the other side of the fence.
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Old 08-06-2001, 08:02 PM   #2
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By being productive I was referring to where
people were continually adding new and useful information instead of continually dwelling on the same thing without making any sense out of what is being said. A topic can be discussed,but what good does it do to continually repeat the same thing over and over and not learn anything from it ?
 
Old 08-06-2001, 08:44 PM   #3
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Its been argued about many times. Leave it alone.

NORTHERN SINGING doesnt means "NORTHERN SINGING AND SHOULD WHITE PEOPLE DO IT" the topic is about northern singing.

Question and comments about the songs, origins, words, meanings, drum groups, etc...are all that should be here.

When a topic named BASH BOARD sprouts, air your dislikes about people on that. ;) But for now please keep it civil.

This is a good place for non-NDNs to gather info about NDN views all around the country. If I was a first timer to this board I probably would never come back.

BIG CHOCHOLATE THUNDER showed up preaching the same things we have all heard 100 times before. Maybe he should talk with HALIWA SAPONI GAL on this subject.

I would rip into BCT but he/she may also be a child....or just act like one.

:D
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Old 08-06-2001, 11:49 PM   #4
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Itokasniye or whatever you are really called,

You have very accurately defined exactly what this message board, and web site, is all about, and I quote:

"This is a good place for non-NDNs to gather info about NDN views all around the country."

May I paraphrase? A good place for non-Indians to gather info about Indian cultures, traditions, etc., and use the info for self-gratification and cultural appropriation, maybe?

Do you realize how many Lakota/Dakota/Nakota people would be (are) offended by your using "Itokasniye" as your "Indian" name on this board or anywhere else?

Do you realize the Lakota/Dakota/Nakota people who have been given "Indian names" as you call them do not use them in public and very rarely even talk about them?

I invite you to consider your actions and their effect on Indian people.

This is not an effort to "bash" you or anyone else on this message board. You have said yourself that non-Indians on this board want to "gather info about Indian views." This is an Indian's view.

I have visited and watched this message board for a long time. I decided to register and add my "views" and comments. There will be many who will not like what I have to say, but I will speak from the heart. If that offends you, it is not my problem.
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Old 08-06-2001, 11:52 PM   #5
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Ito, I thought it had been made plain to you in another topic that Haliwa Indian Girl is a child, and that the venom directed at her was misplaced. And in another topic you lashed out at a child who was injured at a recent powwow. And here you are once again, using a child (the same child to whom you apologized before) as a means to deliver your underhanded invective (in the same breath that you tell others to keep it civil). Perhaps you should find the respect, and courage, to deliver your views plainly and without using children as targets and shields. For shame.
 
Old 08-07-2001, 12:45 AM   #6
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why does everyone have to fight on this web page. the issue here should not be one of race but one of learning. we all came here to either learn or share or both but for one reason or other everyone wants to be segregated. someone said at a pow wow that i was at, the other weekend, that it should not be a red or white issue but a respect issue.

this board as lost a lot of knowledgeable people (be it white, native, and yes, even black) because of the constent bickering. this is supposed to be an educational board.
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Old 08-07-2001, 12:49 AM   #7
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Ghostrider- I understand that the moderators have the tough job of trying to make sure that things don't get out of hand, but I honestly don't think the topic had reached that level. Een though this topic has come up several times before, who's to say that people aren't learning from it. Even though I might not agree with what someone else may be writing, it helps me understand where they are coming from to a certain extent. New people are joining this board every day, and may want the opportunity to share their thoughts on the matter. And, if someone is posting the topic, than it is obviously a relevant issue to them, or something that they feel strongly about. If people don't like the topic, they have the choice to move on to something else.

Itokasniye---Coyote Mama has a good point. You tell everyone else to keep it civil, but say how you would "rip into" BCT but you don't know if he is a child. If you are interested in keeping things civil, why are you looking to rip into anyone? Practice what you preach.
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Old 08-07-2001, 01:16 AM   #8
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Post Closing topics which fall under topic heading

This virtual gathering is a wonderful way to meet other people and broaden horizons by viewing other peoples opinion's on certain topics. Why do administrators close topics, when they obviously generate discussion, because it has been discussed before or a solution hasn't been found?? Non-Native singers is a relevant topic to find under Northern SINGING!!!
Just thought I would mention it.
Take Care everyone.
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Old 08-07-2001, 01:39 AM   #9
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normally as long as a topic is being productive and going somewhere it will stay open. When it gets to the point of not making any headway,gets stuck in the same old grind,or gets rehashed several times witout any improvement then the topic will get closed.
 
Old 08-07-2001, 02:02 AM   #10
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Hi
I had to respond this because. I sat at a drum at a powwow I went to couple years ago and they welcome me to the drum to learn how to sing with them and don't have a problem with white people on the drum to sing on the drum with the indian singers.
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Old 08-07-2001, 09:43 AM   #11
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Also, in topics it's sometimes not what's
being ssaid,but how it's being said. In another forum I closed a topic primarily due to bashing and attitudes of the people posting.
Just a thought here-if you want to keep a topic open and going consider that what you post as a topic or in replies is helpful,useful information related to the topic. Also,make sure of how you deliever the
information-in a friendly,informative manner.
 
Old 08-07-2001, 11:09 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally posted by ghostrider:
<STRONG>Also, in topics it's sometimes not what's
being ssaid,but how it's being said. In another forum I closed a topic primarily due to bashing and attitudes of the people posting.
Just a thought here-if you want to keep a topic open and going consider that what you post as a topic or in replies is helpful,useful information related to the topic. Also,make sure of how you deliever the
information-in a friendly,informative manner.</STRONG>
It has been posted on here many times, by many Indians, that non indians do not have a place in the circle, other than as spectators. This view has been presented civilly to radically but this concept seems to be totally ignored, no matter how it is presented. My guess is that arguing will continue, because for one, Indians love to argue and two, Plains Indian's aren't going to roll over a be "good" Indians anywhere in the near future.

And yes, there have been non Indians welcomed in the circle, while I don't know any personally, I would be willing to bet that they were adopted into a tribe. Once this happens the person becomes one of "the People." That is the belief on the plains. Being Indian is a way of life, it is a way of thinking, dancing is a just a small part of this way.

I guess the point I am trying to make is that as long as plains Indians are allowed to post, we will continue to post our beliefs. I am sorry you do not like to hear them.
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Old 08-07-2001, 11:35 AM   #13
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First, I closed the topic. I might not have reached the heated level that other topics in the past have reached, but that is exactly why I closed it. Nothing new was being brought up. It is the same discussion that has taken place dozens of times. This site can do a lot of good, but I don't think that the issue of non-natives and natives is going to be solved here.

The moderators are doing a great job of keeping things civil and I appreciate their work.

If you have any other questions about the policies of this site, please refer to the registration agreement or send me a PM or email.

thanks
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