[n8tivechick]

hello,
here in MI there are not female druk groups. i know they do exsist, i heard there are some in the west coast. does anyone know of any female drum groups?
-Kelli

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[Smokin' Ace]

I have personally never heard of all girl drum groups, but I know there are several groups that have or have had female singers such as:

1) Red Bull
2) Cathedral Lakes
3) Little Boy (I think)

These are northern groups that I have heard of having female singers.

Anyone else??

[This message has been edited by Smokin' Ace (edited March 05, 2001).]

[original49man]

A few years ago, I moved out to Vancouver, B.C. Every powwow I went to had about 20 drums at each, with half of these drums being all women or mixed. This was the only area I've seen first hand, all women drums. When I asked about the reasoning behind it, I was told that the women simply felt they had every right to sing on the bigdrum as men. So in essence, they are breaking tradition. Is it right or wrong? Even I'm not sure, all I know is the way I was taught, the bigdrum is for men but as a man, I am no better then any other human. Traditions are not constant but ever changing, and even moreso in present day society.

[contemptradish]

hi n8tive,
there's one pw on long island that i go to that always has one all female drum named Mothers of Nations. I think they may have changed their name though. someone help me out.
there's also the Mankillers out of california:
http://geocities.com/wellesley/9574/
that's all i know of now.

nicky

[Vicki]

The only all women drum I've heard of is Mankillers.

[hoksila]

Well I honestly don't know too much about all women groups. But what I do know is our traditions where I'm from says that the drum is for women only, but that's an Ojibway tradition. On the other hand, I know that in the Midewin Society that woman can handle drums to sing the ceremony songs. I know of a few groups that have had women singers on them, but not all women. As noted already before,

Cathedral Lakes
Little Boy
and also:
Black Lodge
Kicking Woman

I'm not sure of the first two if it's in their traditions or not, but the last two I know are a part of the Blackfoot tribe and I do believe that they allow women to sit down at the drum. I really don't believe it's wrong if you've always followed those teachings, but if you're just all of a sudden saying that you're gonna start an all women group, I think the people starting the group should touch up on the teachings of their tribe.

AHO.
Miigwetch!

I have never seen a women sit on a drum in Cree country unless it was a drum from B.C.
At the 1996 Poundmakers pow-wow, a drum of women from B.C set up a drum and everytime they sang a contest song, the dancers just stood there looking at them with disgust, and they were asked to stop and another drum sang contest, rightfully so as they were terrible.
There were many rude and unflattering comments made about them amd that was primarily because they were sitting on the drum instead of behind it and that they were terrible singers.
The previous post about mixed drums in B.C. is true and it is something I do not like but pow-wow here is like many places, adopted and imtit, poorly in many cases, traditions are not taught or earned because so many here want and use it as their supposed healing.
They do not listen to those who know..myself personally I do not dance if the mixed or womens drum is poor and even if they are sounding good I do not partically enjoy dancing to them. Here there are so many groups that all sing the same ole songs that everytime a new drum appears, they sing the same songs as they all learn from each other.
They sing no words songs because they cannot speak or understand the language so consequesntly if they sing a word song they butcher it...unlike the big drums whose women singers come in late and can hit all the right notes.....my aunt is credited with starting this style of singing with women around the back..Florence Nepoose(Deschamps) of Pigeon Lake singers in Hobbema...she has been doing it for over 25 years now and she still sounds great.
So if I had it my way there would be no women or mixed drums and women would sing behind the men as tradition dictates and as one sees it in the prairies in most circumstances.it is like having any white sing or sit on a drum, it is just wrong and traditonally unacceptable and a mockery of our ways.

Kahkakew

I have heard of female drum groups, and have had the pleasure to listen to them! The one that I have heard was from the southern area of BC, with some very prominent pow wow people as singers, I think that they where younger then I was, about teenage years.



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"Live to win, Dare to fail" James Hetfield

I think the drum you are refering to is called "Smoke signals"??? The lead singer is marrried to a Cree from Saddle Lake and they live there again and lived there for many years prior where she learnt to sing properly as did other members of the drum...funny though I have never seen them sing in Alberta as it is not accepted but you see them at lower mainland pow-wows all the time where they sound good! Still I do not like it but that will not stop them will it, even when it seems they should know better....

Kahkakew

No, sorry but that is not the drum I was refering to. If you would like some "concrete" information on what group I was talking about, please contact me, and I shall put you in with the right source

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"Live to win, Dare to fail" James Hetfield

[Czechy]

Among the Eastern Shoshone of Wyoming there was an all or mostly female drum since the 1970s. I think their name was Crying Woman. I've been to the Eastern Shoshone annual powwows but have never heard them so I don't know if they are still around or not.

[Jacques]

And if you ask that question among traditional Lakota....by golley ya might be a wahoo!

[contemptradish]

question for kahkakew-
before you said, "my aunt is credited with starting this style of singing with women around the back..Florence Nepoose(Deschamps) of Pigeon Lake singers in Hobbema...she has been doing it for over 25 years now and she still sounds great." before that, what did women do? did they not sing at all?

-N

I am not aware of any woman/women ever singnig by the drum prior to that...that was around the time that competition pow-wows were really satrting up again and there was alot more opportunity to sing and compete.
The early 70's saw a huge revival in pow-wow dancing/singing as the healing movement out of addicitons started up then with Poundmakers Lodge in Edmonton.

Kahkakew

[Vicki's sis]

Hmmm...I don't knwo what to say about this topic.

[Vicki's sis]

Hmmm...I don't know what to say about this topic. I have never seen any women drum groups around the south...but I know they exist.

[Jacques]

The topic is "NORTHERN"singing.

[n8tivechick]

There are ALOT of posts abouts drums in here so it is not just about singing. and the singing goes along with drums.... sorry Jacques!
-Kelli

[HighsNLows]

as i see these topics, it makes me wonder about something. in what ways has the drum (powwow drum) come to the people known to be northern singers. not necessarily as a growth from tribes own traditions/ religion, but as it relates to the powwow along with the dance. ive heard and seen much talk of tribes paying for the right of dances, and of how in older days what we call now powwow dancers, and singers were called omaha stlye dancers, singers etc.
i would just like to get peoples versions on how the "powwow" drum came to various tribes, as it seems people refer to the dances as being borrowed but i dont hear as much of the drum being given to tribes. ive seen talk on that topic in as far as southern singing goes, but not for northern.
it just seems that as people follow protocal for borrowed dances, the protocol for the drum seems to not be followed as strictly. i would think that as people are dancing in the manner that came from specific tribes that their protocol should also be followed when singing in their way. i know that i am not writing this as clearly as i would like, so there may be some confusion to what i am trying to say. anyways i would like to hear how the this type of drum came to various people now known for being northern singers. thank you

[Jacques]

Women sitting at the drum is NOT a Lakota tradition.And i am ready to bet that it is neither for the Cheyennes ,the Crows,the blackfeet,or the Arapaho.
.Times have changed,but it is well known among northern plain people that women sing standing up around the men.The place of Honor of a "wicaglata"[woman singer],the third circle.
Why spending time trying to make new ways when so many old traditions are dying out?Why are they dying out?May be because some people dont want to go by the ways of their ancestors,ways passed down from generation to generation,handed down from the holy ones.They want to be like white americans"I want to do what i want!it is 2001!"the brats of mankind.
What a nice way to honnor the ancestors.
You want to sing ,sing with honor like a proud native woman,not like one of those "crazy"women that the old people frown upon.
I am talking in a Lakota context.