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Old 10-29-2005, 05:29 PM   #1
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Finding your voice vs finding the rhythm

Just curious to find out from other singers what their learning experience was. I've found some singers find their "singing voice" a lot quicker than finding the "natural rhythm" of the song and vice versa. And then, lol...., I've found some who haven't found either one.

Which did you find first? Do you remember how it came to be? How/why was the other a bit of a challenge for you?
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Old 10-30-2005, 01:51 PM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LSS
Just curious to find out from other singers what their learning experience was. I've found some singers find their "singing voice" a lot quicker than finding the "natural rhythm" of the song and vice versa. And then, lol...., I've found some who haven't found either one.

Which did you find first? Do you remember how it came to be? How/why was the other a bit of a challenge for you?
LSS,

I remember comin' to the drum as a kid.

During this time I had a hard time learning gourd dance songs because they can be hard to learn until you know the makeup of both the rhythm and vocal pattern. Also there is a certain set of songs that are sung at the beginning and the end of gourd dance.

I found the same to be true later in life in learning ceremonial songs: ie. Sun Dance, NAC, Sweat songs. They seem to all have a formula in drum beat and vocal pattern.

This drumming pattern is also different when singing 49 vs. round dance songs. To many people they are one in the same. But in reality they are separate songs with separate drum beats.

Now, I appreciate the different rhythms and vocal patterns from different tribes ie. bear dance, smoke dance, stomp dance, tribal hymns, etc. etc. etc.
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Old 10-30-2005, 09:46 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WhoMe
LSS,

I remember comin' to the drum as a kid.

During this time I had a hard time learning gourd dance songs because they can be hard to learn until you know the makeup of both the rhythm and vocal pattern. Also there is a certain set of songs that are sung at the beginning and the end of gourd dance.

I found the same to be true later in life in learning ceremonial songs: ie. Sun Dance, NAC, Sweat songs. They seem to all have a formula in drum beat and vocal pattern.

This drumming pattern is also different when singing 49 vs. round dance songs. To many people they are one in the same. But in reality they are separate songs with separate drum beats.

Now, I appreciate the different rhythms and vocal patterns from different tribes ie. bear dance, smoke dance, stomp dance, tribal hymns, etc. etc. etc.
WhoMe,

I agree with you whole-heartedly. When it comes to "Southern Singing", there is more to it than just singing a "southern song". We as Southerners do need to know all of the above you mentioned that goes hand in hand with Southern Singing. We'll get into those topics a little later.

Anyone care to share which they found first (voice vs rhythm)? If so, do you remember how it came to be? How/why was the other a bit of a challenge for you?
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To get a true picture of your purpose in life, you only get the whole picture when you listen with your mind, your ears and your heart. This way The Creator has a direct connection with you and only you...no outside interference.

When you follow the will of IT that created you, understanding that your purpose is not for you...but for IT and all that IT has created, there can be no wrong except failure to be obedient. Only then do we jeopardize the gifts we are given.

Its not the final destination that defines us, rather the journey taken!

Last edited by LSS; 10-30-2005 at 09:51 PM..
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Old 10-31-2005, 01:00 AM   #4
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I guess finding my rhythm was the harder of the 2 for me...I had been singing all my life, but the first fella that started teaching me to sing powwow songs always sang on the beat. He knew that the songs were sang off the beat, preached to everyone to sing that way...but could never tell he was leading on the beat himself. He would even get in arguments with others swearing he was not on the beat, when in reality he always was and still is to this day.

After him it took me a while to start getting it right. I am sure it is not just him but also the fact that most, if not all, other forms of music one hears in mainstream US culture are sang on the beat.
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Old 10-31-2005, 01:55 AM   #5
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Northern singers 2 cents.

I learned my first song at 20 (late bloomer), from someone who sings on beat. I didnt have good control of my voice at first either.

Learning the rhythm was easy becuase I have a music background from playing guitar (yes I am a white guy with rhythm)

The transition to off beat was easy since I always felt wrong singing on beat. Now my problem is getting the rest of the guys off beat.

I have been singing northern for 15 years, 2 months ago I sat in with a southern drum. It was like I never sang before!!! I was all over the place. Nothing like singing to Yellowhammer and Southern Thunder CD's in my car.
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Old 10-31-2005, 08:06 PM   #6
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ahem....(clears throat)

And no, I was not referring to anyone on my drum!

lol

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When you follow the will of IT that created you, understanding that your purpose is not for you...but for IT and all that IT has created, there can be no wrong except failure to be obedient. Only then do we jeopardize the gifts we are given.

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Old 11-01-2005, 03:51 PM   #7
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well lets see..... I never had a problem with the getting the beat because I danced when I was younger.... now for singing when started I sounded purdy bad.... I hear old tapes and get shamed out.... I think I've come a longway. why is it that white people sing on beat? get two white guys together from different parts of the country put em at the same drum and they sing the same? seen it before. there must be training tapes for white singer in circulation somewhere...?
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Old 11-01-2005, 09:20 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TacO5000
well lets see..... I never had a problem with the getting the beat because I danced when I was younger.... now for singing when started I sounded purdy bad.... I hear old tapes and get shamed out.... I think I've come a longway. why is it that white people sing on beat? get two white guys together from different parts of the country put em at the same drum and they sing the same? seen it before. there must be training tapes for white singer in circulation somewhere...?

Now why's everybody gots to go pickin' on me? j/k
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When you follow the will of IT that created you, understanding that your purpose is not for you...but for IT and all that IT has created, there can be no wrong except failure to be obedient. Only then do we jeopardize the gifts we are given.

Its not the final destination that defines us, rather the journey taken!
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Old 11-01-2005, 09:23 PM   #9
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But no, really, a lot of it has to do with transitioning from secular music (I think thats the right terminology) to Native Music. I realized this the other day in church. I was getting frustrated with the people and the choir when I realized the differences in background...I nearly busted out laughing b/c I felt so ___________.
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To get a true picture of your purpose in life, you only get the whole picture when you listen with your mind, your ears and your heart. This way The Creator has a direct connection with you and only you...no outside interference.

When you follow the will of IT that created you, understanding that your purpose is not for you...but for IT and all that IT has created, there can be no wrong except failure to be obedient. Only then do we jeopardize the gifts we are given.

Its not the final destination that defines us, rather the journey taken!
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Old 11-07-2005, 02:59 AM   #10
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Originally Posted by WhoMe
Also there is a certain set of songs that are sung at the beginning and the end of gourd dance..... Sun Dance...
Matter fact that starting song was originally a sundance song. Then comes them 3 chief's songs. Thas ma fav part that and them dogyas ha ha sorry been wit monsenior all weekend But back to the topic hell I STILL CANT SING OR DRUM lol aye. Nah all it took for me to get the rythm was singin with ma uncles from ok. They'll straighten you up real quick. And when it comes to singin, u better be able to lead all 4 songs when it comes to you, or get shamed out lol I know. Been there. but I didn't really get into singin till I was about 11 and hell I'm only 16 now. I could say I have come a long way but I still got a long way to go.
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Old 11-07-2005, 11:18 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by suthernwaterbird
Matter fact that starting song was originally a sundance song. Then comes them 3 chief's songs. Thas ma fav part that and them dogyas ha ha sorry been wit monsenior all weekend .......

Hmmmm?

Pretty interesting suthernWB.


What else did Monsenior tell you?
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Old 11-07-2005, 01:47 PM   #12
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Here's some advice for everyone. If you can't keep a beat and you can't sing for the life of you. Don't!!!! I didn't get put into to sing with the women until I was like 18 (my family wanted me to have appreciation for it yada yada and to be sure I wanted to). But I could sing and I had natural rhythm. (Band since 3rd grade....music lover)

It really shouldn't be a hard thing to do. Practice does make perfect...just don't practice at the pow wow. (practice at home) *L* (some guys only sing at all when they're there.)And honey.....we can tell. *L*

we bla han :)
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Old 11-07-2005, 02:22 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CandaePrincess
Here's some advice for everyone. If you can't keep a beat and you can't sing for the life of you. Don't!!!! I didn't get put into to sing with the women until I was like 18 (my family wanted me to have appreciation for it yada yada and to be sure I wanted to). But I could sing and I had natural rhythm. (Band since 3rd grade....music lover)

It really shouldn't be a hard thing to do. Practice does make perfect...just don't practice at the pow wow. (practice at home) *L* (some guys only sing at all when they're there.)And honey.....we can tell. *L*

we bla han :)
Candae, you hit the nail on the head. I was a late bloomer myself for the same reason. And yes, practice does make perfect! In our case, its because we know what we're doing. However, for some, this practice makes purfect is for the birds; practice makes purmanent!
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When you follow the will of IT that created you, understanding that your purpose is not for you...but for IT and all that IT has created, there can be no wrong except failure to be obedient. Only then do we jeopardize the gifts we are given.

Its not the final destination that defines us, rather the journey taken!
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Old 11-07-2005, 02:34 PM   #14
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Hmmmm?

Pretty interesting suthernWB.


What else did Monsenior tell you?
Monsenior didnt tell me a got dam thing. Same person teachin me prolly taught u, I know for a fact you know him.
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Old 11-07-2005, 04:39 PM   #15
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Quote:
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Monsenior didnt tell me a got dam thing. Same person teachin me prolly taught u, I know for a fact you know him.

swbird,

Yes, I have had a lot of mentors and continue to learn songs and their meanings from singers who are fluent language speakers.


Actually,

I just love hearing online, other tribes telling me the history of my people ... that's all.




I don't eeeeeeeven KNOW what or who a monsenior is!!! *L
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