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-   -   Hand drum contest ballots (http://forums.powwows.com/f31/hand-drum-contest-ballots-4324/)

Kiwehnzii 06-29-2002 11:51 AM

Hand drum contest ballots
I've seen a lot of singing contest ballots but not Hand drum.

What do you singing contest professional judges look for in a hand drum comp?

What would you put on a ballot?

How many singers would be the max? Minumum?

BEZHIG IKWE 06-30-2002 08:23 PM

Hand drum contest
I live in western states and Hand drum contests are usually a single singer event. I've judged a few and have used a 1 to 10 point scale ( 10 being the best ). I look for confidence, singing ability, and knowledge of the song. It's worked ok so far.

Kiwehnzii 07-03-2002 12:47 AM

Okay, most of the people who would have imput into this topic (singers) are now home from a powwow. I'd like to see what kind of knowledge you dudes have to contribute.

I would have to include precision drumming, singing in sync, showmanship, originality.

Also, any groups would have to sing their own composition in order to compete.

Any more???

Kiwehnzii 07-04-2002 09:02 PM

What's up with the no replies? Dang! I thought there was some knowledgeable singers around here. Where's the "exposer" and the "wooer" when someone needs them?

How bout you Bigbearstyle? Anything to contribute to this topic? Keeb? Anyone? Even David Schneider, AAYYEE.

Not trying to bother all you pros, but I thought this was a pretty good topic.

young scout 07-06-2002 05:37 AM

yeah i'll say sumthin'.......up here in the plains it seems to be that most hand drum contests are four man. It seems like a fair contest cuz everyone's gotta sing strong through out the whole song. Me, i would judge them on their drum beat most importantly. And then their quality of singing and harmonizing. Also the originality of the song is an important aspect. And of course extra points awarded to more than one lead singer.

Kiwehnzii 07-09-2002 10:53 PM

Yoo hoo!!! Any singers out there? Keeb? Ojibway-tribe? Scarface?

Kiiwedinong 07-09-2002 11:16 PM

I've been gone for awhile hitting those pow wow trails. Sorry for not replying. My bad.
Back to your question.........it depends I guess. I mean....Ojibway round dance style and the Cree style are two different hand drum styles.
Cree style; I'd put a lot of emphasis on the drumming. I mean, I've heard from other drummers that drumming to this kinda round dance is difficult. I would look for the precision in the beats and of course the sound of the snare. The snare is probably the most important part of the drumming. Its what makes the beat so distinct then a normal round dance song. I'd also look for style, I enjoy listening to BlackLodge when all the singers hit the rim of the handdrum when it comes to singing the words in their song. Style is important. I'd also consider the harmony, melody, rhythym and overall sound of the song. The leads are also very important. A sweet lead leads into a sweet song. Ummmm....thats it I guess.
Ojibway round dance style is easy to judge I think. Sure the drumming is easy, but you should pay close attention to the checkbeats and the skip beat leading into the other half of the song; these are important parts of the drumming. Once again style would be very important.....one good thing about this style of round dance is that all singers can share the checkbeats at the same time. This is difficult but easy to do once you do it often. Fast beats or slow beats dont matter to me. The song should sound sweet enough to record and dance too. Confidence in both categories is very important too.

Is that good???

Kiwehnzii 07-09-2002 11:25 PM

Hey, good stuff Ojib-tribe. Miigwetch.

After I get enough input, I'm going to put together a hand-drum contest ballot and post it on here for you all to view. I'd like to get your thoughts on the sample ballot and get some ideas on where to make changes.

Kinda like the ultimate ballot by all you pros.:)

keeb_k 07-10-2002 11:55 AM

Good reply Ojib!!! I like no less than 3 singers and also watch to see if they pass the lead or just count on one guy ,shows their versitility, the beat is the key as my Niij says and to see if they jam with their own song, always like a new song!!! Good to see a lot of young bucks in the US getting into the handdrum now. Harmonizing is real big too, nothing like 3or 4 guys sounding like one.

Kiwehnzii 08-06-2002 11:38 PM

Check out this ballot
Drumbeat Is the drumbeat synchronized? If there are words, Is the drumbeat sufficiently quietened so the listeners can discern the words?
Rate from 1 to 10. Please circle - 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10

Snare Are all participants in sync with the snare? Can you hear it well?
Rate from 1 to 10. Please circle - 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10

Lead Very distinct? Clear? More than one lead singer?
Rate from 1 to 10. Please circle - 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10

Harmony, synchronization Do they sound as one? Second the lead at exact same time?
Rate from 1 to 10. Please circle - 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10

Personal opinion on song Your own feelings on the song. Does it make you feel good to hear it? Does it make you want to dance? Does the team appear to really be enjoying their song(enthusiasm)?
Rate from 1 to 10. Please circle - 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10

What do you think round dance judges? Leave it as it is? Add anything? Drop anything? I tried to use some of my own ideas as well as those received here and others I asked. It doesn't look too bad. Feedback PLEASE!


Kiwehnzii 08-07-2002 05:49 PM

This post has been up almost a day without a response. If you don't care for the hand drum contest ballot, just say so. Suggest something. Anything.

I'd really like your feedback because I'll probably pass these around to different powwow committees and maybe some will use them. Maybe you'll be judged according to this criteria. Who knows? Maybe the committees will like it, maybe not.

At least this way, you'll have some say in how you are judged.

HighsNLows 08-07-2002 07:19 PM

its pretty good. i like it. the only thing id maybe change is the part of the singers looking like they are enjoying it. i can see everyone now just bouncing around with a goofy smile. i think you can see their enjoyment through their singing, not their appearing to enjoy themselves. the ballot is good though. i and i would definantly keep the examples on it too.

Kiiwedinong 08-08-2002 10:37 PM

I like the ballot alot. I can tell its for those Cree round dance songs though. But thats ok. Its kinda unfair for other drum groups who would want to sing those OJibway round dance songs. I mean, with the Ojibway style there is no need for a snare. YOu know what I mean? So its a good ballot but to partial.

Kiwehnzii 08-08-2002 10:46 PM

This is what I came up with.
Drumbeat Is the drumbeat synchronized? If there are words, is the drumbeat sufficiently quietened enough for you to hear the words? 1 2 3 4 5 6 7

Lead Is the lead very distinct? Clear? More than 1 person leading? 1 2 3 4 5 6 7

Harmony/Synchronization Do they sound as one? Do they second the lead at the exact same time? 1 2 3 4 5 6 7

Personal opinion on the song Your own feelings on the song. Does it make you feel good? Does it make you want to dance? 1 2 3 4 5 6 7

All these will be rated from one to seven.

What do you think? Any more thoughts on changes?

Thanks dudes!I've edited this post/ballot. I dropped the snare category and have changed the rating system from 1 to 7. How's it look now , guys?

Kiiwedinong 08-08-2002 10:49 PM

too partial

Kiwehnzii 08-08-2002 10:55 PM

I don't want to have a ballot that takes a half hour to read and end up with 50,000 points.

Ojib tribe, What would you do to change it and not have 45 categories to rate?

Kiiwedinong 08-08-2002 11:05 PM

I dont know "oldman". I'd actually use that ballot, but would strictly state that its only for Cree style. But if I were to change it I would get rid of the snare part of it.

Harold 08-08-2002 11:48 PM

Looks good. Ojibway_Tribe has a good point about the snare.
If that part is gone, then the ballot could be used for both Woodlands (Ojib) style and Northern Plains(Cree) style.

n8tv_singer 4_life 08-09-2002 12:46 PM

just a singer's perspective.....
The Ballot look's good for Cree Style. As you have heard. I've seen allot of different ballot's around either running a drum contest or competing in one. There are a couple of changes I'd like to suggest to make your ballot more uniform/versital so all style's of hand drum singing can use it. Whether it be. Cree style with the snare. (Which is a little difficult to adapt to after you've been singing Ojib round dance and jingle dress song's for so long.) Anway here it goes.....

For the Points a 1 to 10 scale is a little too much. I'd suggest you use. 0..............5.............10................15. .........20. For each item the judges will be judging.

The hand drum contest's are more leaning toward a 4 man crew. At least the pow-wow's I've gone to so far this summer. Because most of the time we are asked to sing a song 4 times through. One lead for each guy.

Finally, I'd have to agree with a couple other's. Taking out the "Snare" item would open this ballot up to all style's. Cree Round Dance, Ojib Round Dance and Jingle(Agitchida Quay) Song's, and Southern "49" Style. Can't forget about the brother's down there.....you know?

Anywho.......thatz my view's on it.


Kiwehnzii 08-09-2002 01:25 PM

All done
Okay guys thanks for the help. I finalized it by removing the "snare" portion and changing the rating system to 1 to 7.

I'll be meeting with Harvey Dreaver tomorrow and run it by him and get his opinion.

BTW, go to my last post on the ballot and you'll get an idea what it looks like.

Thanks again!:Thumbs

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