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Old 04-05-2000, 10:02 AM   #1
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Post What Style Songs Do You Sing?

In reading an email from a buddy of mine last night, I thought of a good topic of discussion. What style songs do you guys sing? I sing almost 100% Lakota songs with some vocables songs from other tribes, and my buddy sings mostly Dakota songs. Just wondering what everyone's forte on this board is and preference? Scott
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Old 04-05-2000, 11:51 AM   #2
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my drum sings mostly SixNation (word) songs as our lead is Oneida, but we try to mix it up a bit with some various vocable songs.
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Old 04-06-2000, 03:27 PM   #3
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Our intertribals and round dance songs are vocables from all over, the only word songs we sing are in Mvskoke(Creek)
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Old 04-08-2000, 10:51 AM   #4
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Cool! you sing in Creek! Iam the lead singer at our Drum(we just came out on new years day) here in Seattle,Washington state. Iam Choctaw/Cree and was always wonderin if anyone in southeast ever sung at Pow wows in there language. Thats so cool...I would love to hear them. I have composed a few songs for our group but they are all vocables and for the fun dances..no heavey songs..like Flag or Vet. songs. I can speak Choctaw a bit but not onuff to convey a good message worthy of a flag song. No melodies have come to me yet, so I dont think Iam meant to compose one yet. Do you sing southern style? I was wondering when I sing in Choctaw should I use my southern voice or my northern voice(my Drum members all want to keep the Drum a northern drum.Lakota) which doesnt make sense to me since none of us are Lakota! well anyway...If ya know of anyone who sings Pow wow songs in Choctaw Please let me know,or anyother southeast language, that maybe want to share some songs.
Man it would be nice to learn Southern songs in a language that I feel comfortable with.
Sorry what was the topic again? haha
I get off track so easy!

anyway..I am 22 years old..real young and dont have much experiance with being a lead songer but I have the voice and the Elders in the erea seem to think Iam doing well at it. although its hard to be so young and have to be lead singer for all these older guys..who seem to have a lot of image and ego invalved. I find my self gettin frustrated with them because they seem reluctant to learn any songs but Lakota songs. Iam comfortable singing both styles, but I always feel like i should be singing with a southern Drum. I sit with one up here on occasion but they dont come around but once a month or so..
man Iam long winded!!!
Take care
Rich
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Old 04-10-2000, 11:44 AM   #5
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Talking

Henga estonko!
Give me your email address and we'll talk. mine is [email protected] Loking forward to talking with you.
Joseph
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Old 04-14-2000, 02:33 PM   #6
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lakota songs are the songs for me!!!! Ilove the old ones(1940's and before)They carry the history of the people and on the real old ones(pre- rez), you can get a glimpse into the life of that time. That's why I prefer the worded tunes but the vocable ones are great too. I sing for every occasion I can; sundance,powwow, sweat,whatever i know the songs for. The young voices are great , but i also prefer to sing with the old timers. Not a chance of an old timer singing 'Mickey mouse"!
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Old 04-14-2000, 10:48 PM   #7
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I'd love to hook up with some Lakota singers back east. At the moment I'm living in Custer SD, but will most likely be living in upstate NY by sept. Possibly we can hook up then. Maybe you know of some singers up that way???? Hey, did you take down my post about 'Who's tradition is it anyway' already? I just put it up today. Didn't think it was that risque
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Old 04-15-2000, 05:53 PM   #8
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Yeah! I agree! That was I good topic Mr. RabbitBelly brought up. I took half an hour with my post to that one. (Iam a slow typer)
Rich
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Old 04-23-2000, 12:15 AM   #9
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So, does anybody here like these modern songs like "Mickey Mouse" and "superman". I know alot of people think they're cute and evidence of an evolving culture,but to me it seems like a real dis to all those old timers and traditional ways. I'm sure if white guys had made these songs,there would be a different response to them. Regardless of how old those old songs are, they always were made to honor something or remember something special. These songs only help to erode the long standing oral traditions of the indian people. Just one more step in the assimilation process. There's really nothing to be proud about in these songs and that's an important part of cultural identification.
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Old 04-25-2000, 11:05 AM   #10
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I agree with you rabbitbelly; I don't particularly care for those songs. My drum group won't sing them. If we're called on for a kids song, we'll sing an appropriate song for them of which there are many. I just don't like songs (except a few round dance and rabbit dance songs) that have english lyrics. I love those old Lakota songs!!...and the new ones that are not Rock N' Roll songs which just repeat wacipelo over and over. Just my opinion, Scott

P.S. I have sung those songs on drums before, but I prefer not to. Just didn't want to appear hypocritical to those who know me
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Old 04-25-2000, 06:51 PM   #11
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Scott, I agree with you that some of the word songs like that are odd. But I do like a lot of the new stuff that is out by alot of different drums. I know there alot of vocable songs but there are several that are word songs. As high as most of the new drums sing, it gets real hard to tell the difference some times.
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Old 05-16-2000, 10:39 AM   #12
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About those "cartoon" songs . . .

For some reason (relative youth, I would guess) MC's often come to my drum for tiny tots exhibition (which I have grown tired of). We have even been asked for a specific song by name (Mickey Mouse, Flintstones, etc.). I personally do not like to sing these songs, but if asked for a specific song, I do it despite not liking it.

I don't think these songs are necessarily bad, just different. I also don't think we sing these songs all that well, probably because our hearts aren't in that kind of song.

I was taught that if asked "in a good way," you ought to do it.

Any thoughts on this situation?
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Old 05-16-2000, 03:56 PM   #13
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While everybody is picking on those cartoon songs and castigating the drums who sing them, has any one found out the history of them? They just didn't fall out of the sky, you know.
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Old 05-16-2000, 04:24 PM   #14
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i just don't understand what is so bad about them.....is it ok for BlackLodge to keep writing the veteran songs with english words....i mean if u dislike there kids songs how od u feel about those....what about the two step songs by Eyabay or Northern Cree or any other group with english words in round dance or rabbit dance songs....
one thing u must remember....the types of songs that r mostly remembered are the old school straight traditional songs...not these new word songs....this time next year, who will remember "Johnny Blaze" by Eyabay....but who ever forgets the old songs by Red Cloud or stuff from Wild Horse, Mandaree, High Noon, and others....
just my 2 cents

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Old 05-16-2000, 05:34 PM   #15
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First let me state that I sing southern (mainly Kiowa and Ponca). But I have to put my own 2 cents in about those kidsí songs.

Yes, those songs are all right for the younger dancers (5 and younger) but not all the time. The problem I have seen is that many drum groups only knows one of those songs and sings it over and over again just for the sake a singing a "Kids" song. However, I believe that if you are going to do an exhibition dance with the young boys/girls (age 6 and up) they should have a normal song. Just my opinion.

"I just don't understand what is so bad about them.....is it ok for BlackLodge to keep writing the veteran songs with english words....i mean if u dislike there kids songs how od u feel about those....what about the two step songs by Eyabay or Northern Cree or any other group with english words in round dance or rabbit dance songs...."

On your above comment, let me just say that your are comparing apples to oranges to grapefruit here. How can you compare Veteran songs with english words to those kid or two-step songs? I know that there are lot of Northern Veteran songs with english words so for simplicity lets just pick one that says World War I or World War II. Will you please inform all of use what the Sioux word (or word from any other language) for those war were prior to 1900 - you can't now can you . Yes, I know that it 2000 not 1900, but Iím just trying to make a point. If you listen to the Veteran Songs CD that came out a few years back youíll hear, if I remember correctly, old recording with English words in them Ė so its not just a new thing and not just limited to Black Lodgeís veteran songs.

Now onto the two-step songs: once again like the kidsí songs these songs can nowadays be classified as social not specialty songs (e.g. Veteran, Memorial or Prayer Songs). So I really donít have a problem with the english lyrics in them.

As a side note, most of the common southern round dance songs with english lyrics were created from old ďWar Expeditions SongsĒ; and yes, there was a controversy over them back some 20 plus years ago, so we wonít rehash it here. The same might hold true for northern songs, but Iíll pass that on to those who are more knowledgeable with northern music. All Iím going to say is that during the round dance the songs are sung without the english lyrics but are sometimes sung with them during the two-step.

Yes, your right in that some new round dance song with english lyrics are popular for a year or so but eventually go the way of most songs and are forgotten, until someone dust them off the shelf so to speak. As for those kid songs our drum group opps not to sing them.

All Iím trying to say is that itís not wise to make such a general reference across the board to all songs with english lyrics. Just my humble opinion.

[This message has been edited by SingerMD (edited May 16, 2000).]
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Old 05-16-2000, 08:40 PM   #16
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Now, I know this is a Northern Singing forum, but these kind of subjects don't get tackled in the Southern singing forum.
I think these songs are alright. Theyre kinda fun to listen to. However, I don't like to sing them. I just don't get into them like I do other types of songs. My buddy's sister insists that we sing the Flinstones song every time she shows up to our practice. Her daughters get a kick out of it, so it's worth the effort. There's a Kiowa song that I'd rather sing for the little ones. If I recall correctly, the song speaks of how good it is to see the young people dancing.
Raptor, I have wondered for some time how these songs came about. Could you shed some light on this for us? It might be able to ease some peoples minds. Perhaps not.

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Old 05-16-2000, 10:21 PM   #17
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I sing LAKOTA TRADITIONAL SONGS.I love them because they tell the story of the Lakota people.What kind of story do those 'Mickey Mouse songs "tell?
Some people say that they are for the kids?
But there are a lot of traditional songs for the kids without having to go get the Stupid Mouse!What message is there for the kids?
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Old 05-21-2000, 04:10 AM   #18
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One of the reserves I work in we started a drum group for the youth. It has recently reveived a name from an elder. The songs I created all reflect the history and traditions of the people of Xeni Gwet'In(Nemiah Valley Indian band). Xeni Gwet'In is a Chilcotin band where Chilcotin is spoken 75% of the time. Chilcotin and Navajo are almost identical languages. Cree and Chilcotin are about as simialar as my opinions and rabbitbelly's!!!

To date we have created 15 songs which tell of legends of two sacred mountains, sacred areas, crow hop, eagle songs, honor songs, foot slide, sneak up, round dance and intertribals.

These youth have never sang at a gathering or pow-wow. We will sing a few time this summer in the area at smaller pow-wows.
Personally I do not sing other drums songs. Fortunately I cna travel to hear many greta Cree, Blackfoot and Nakoda drums in the praires. I do listen to them alot, but I enjoy listening to them then imitating them.
I have the rite to make and give songs, most which are 99% Cree and word songs.

My family and myself have the rites to well over 150+ pow-wow, round dance, tea dance, sun dance, chiken dance, ghost dance, horse dance and sweat lodge songs. Most of them are ceremonial, but many have different versions of a song.

One song we sing,"Okisiko Iskwew" (Holy Woman)is sang in church, sweat lodge, sun dances, round dances and in pow-wow. I have been given many songs as well, but I make up so many, I use most of those. Often I ask if the songs that come to me are from our people. Most of the time they are very old songs that have returned through myself. I am very grateful.

Conmcerning Mighty Mouse, I see and hear a lot stupider things at pow-wows and in forums like this, so why not. It makes kids happy and I have never heard any tiny tot or their parent complain.

I have even started translating my songs into other Indian languages to help Shuswap and Chilcotin people in seats and ceremonies. I do not sing in English as to me this is disrespectful and goes against the purpose of Indian songs. My ancestors spoke Indian languages and I repsect them by singing songs earned and given in the appropriate manner.

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Old 05-21-2000, 09:33 PM   #19
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Wow, I would never have expected to hear you say that those mickey mouse songs are acceptable. You being so traditional and pure. That's a major intrusion from the white world on the sanctity of the native culture. Or was Walt part Indian? Well wahtever
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Old 05-27-2000, 10:12 AM   #20
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In another topic, I can't remember where, the subject of singing on/off the beat came up. I wanted to ask what the deal is with that as I noticed alot of drums in the east do sing on the beat. I always assumed they did it intentionally or it wouldn't be so common. Not knowing anything about southern style, I thought maybe that's what they were doing. Was I right in giving them the benefit of the doubt or is it really just 'cause they don't know any better? All I was sure of was that dancing to a drum that sang on the beat was really lame compared to the ones who sang off the beat. They seemed to lack the energy of the latter.
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