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Old 05-09-2002, 06:41 PM   #1
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Thumbs up Women sing around the drum

I was thinking the other day about women singing. We all know that alot of people are against it because of how powerful women are. And the variouse other traditions people have. Anyway, I like listening to women sing back up. I like how they sound.
Anyway, I was thinking...would it still be the same if a woman sang on a BASS DRUM???
Its not a traditional drum by any means. Made of Fiber Glass and and plastic.
What are the objections to this? The drum is then merley an instrument. Played like any other intrument, ie guitar. What are your thoughts on that?
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Old 05-09-2002, 11:42 PM   #2
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Just a comment.

I remember a guy from Minnesota saying that it was an honor to drum on a bass drum that was captured from the chi mookmaan. (White soldiers) Some guys still did it into the 60's/70's. Not captured drums but bass drums that represented a capture.
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Old 05-10-2002, 01:52 AM   #3
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Big Bear or whatever your name may be ,Go to sweat and go see some elders ,they will put you back in focus,You seem very confused...........................
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Old 05-10-2002, 06:05 AM   #4
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HUH?????? :Thinking :Thinking :Thinking
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Old 05-10-2002, 11:40 AM   #5
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Sounds Good

Bigbear that sounds pretty good but I have to agree with the whole point of "capture". If this is what it represents then so be it! I can only say to them to keep trying. That lawsuit with the women singers is pretty stupid. Keep em away from my Pow Wow!! I wouldn't want any elder from my rez to get sued for telling them they can't sing!





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Old 05-10-2002, 07:25 PM   #6
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A captured drum. Yeah right. Maybe you are right about that. But whose to say they didnt capture it themselves. Or perhaps they do go out and "capture" one. Then what arguement may you posses? Nil I think. And, exposer...I just heard that it was one of your elders that gave these women the right to sing. How come your not exposing that? Huh? Thats what I thought.

And Jaques...I do sweat on a regulr basis. As often as I feel I need it. I also visit with Elders, nearly everyday. And as far as I have been told. Non have disagreed with the Bass Drum theorey. To me, its not a captured object. Just a white man's thing that you can buy at the pawn shop for $22.99.

And since we are on the topic of tradition. I remember a story saying that the only eagle feathers one was allowed to wear were the ones that represented deeds of bravery. You take a look around, you see a bunch of non veterans, dancing around with 50 eagles on their backs. You mean to tell me that all these men were walking around the City somewhere, in their best clothes, in their best paint, slapping white people on the backs and running away, war whooping? Sounds kinda crazy to me. And with todays justice system these "warriors" would be doing hard time, just for counting coupe.

Lets not sit at our computer, trying t hurt each other folks. I am not against people following their culture. I am not against trying to keep this traditional. I am just trying to see what we can do together so that a group of young women out there can continue to sing. Not alot, but still............
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Old 05-12-2002, 04:07 PM   #7
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re: women singing

big bear here is my theroy on what you just posted. i'm not trying to be negative or anything just answering. i think the whole idea is women sitting at the drum period. women aren't allowed to sit there place is behind the males. so using a bass drum makes no difference. just my thought. "peace"
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Old 05-12-2002, 04:11 PM   #8
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Quote:
And since we are on the topic of tradition. I remember a story saying that the only eagle feathers one was allowed to wear were the ones that represented deeds of bravery. You take a look around, you see a bunch of non veterans, dancing around with 50 eagles on their backs.

I agree with you on that one.But do 3 wrongs make one right
?

In fact i pity these guys if they have to meet some of my friends[all veterans from Vietnam]They will have them take the bustle off!

About the Brass drum.It has been around for more than 100 years now!I dont quite see your point.

Women in the nothern plains are backup singers,which give a special harmony to the songs,a style so to speak.That style has been around for 100's of years.Do you really think that its worth being changed just to please some spoiled brats?

The women singers who are sueing were not invited [as far as i know],the commitee did not chase them ,they just told them that they could not sing at the drum as men do.Instead of leaving it as "the rules of the house"they showed that they were thinking more like white people and Sued the Comitee[if i read correctly made of indian people'] They never behaved as traditional women! They conducted themselves as bad guests with no manners !
So why would anybody try to please them?Long time ago they would have been kicked out the village with buffalo chips thrown at them!
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Old 05-13-2002, 04:49 PM   #9
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What you say is true Jaques. It was bad manners to do that. But also, a hundred years ago, women werent allowed to dance inside the cirlce. It was unheard of THEN as singing is NOW! How come that changed? Also, what if, I am just saying what if here...some woman wan given the gift to sing at a pow-wow? Hey it could happen. We wouldnt even have DRUMS if it wasnt for a woman. OR pipes for that matter. I dunno, I dont want to sound like it is "right" or "wrong". Like I said before. In my tradition, women are not allowed to be around a drum. They can sing, but behind the men. Thats how I was raised and thats how I will raise my children. Woman were given gifts they have to use. As were men. But at the same time, I see no spiritual significance of a white produced drum at a pow-wow. At the same time, I dont want to tell anyone they CAN"T do something. Non-Indians have been telling us what we can't do for centuries. Why do we have to carry on THAT tradition?
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Old 05-13-2002, 08:37 PM   #10
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well i think it is good to have woman back up the drums...as for myself...i sing behind my brothers.....and i have no problem...but when a woman sits down with the singers and sings with them...well i dont think that is right...yeah it was back in the day.....but today it is a lot diffrent....but thats what my grandpa told me....but if the singers let the woman sing with them...then thats them....
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Old 05-14-2002, 09:51 AM   #11
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re: women singing

big bear, i just wanted to tell you that we have to keep traditions because that is what makes us different from the white people. i know that sometimes
our traditions are harsh but they have been that way for ever that is what keeps the circle balanced. i know that these girls really want to sing they show it by just showing up. but they also have to have respect for the traditional ways and for the pow-wow committee. we all have to keep tradition this is the only way our chilren will make it when we are dead and gone. so don't worry about the women singers and and just keep on jam'n.
"peace"
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Old 05-17-2002, 03:16 AM   #12
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Big bear I have no problem with women sitting at the drum. We have a women who sings with us, leads for us once in a while. But we sing northern/contemperary. As for old school and southern, I don't agree with a woman sitting at the drum. But contemperary is how it sounds. I know there is alot of people who disagree, because it's not "traditional", but we live in a contemperary world where we need money to survive. I think if the women sounds good than let her sing. The people will still dance. That is all I have to say about that.
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Old 05-28-2002, 05:49 PM   #13
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Lightbulb

I don't think women should sing at the drum, and....obviously, neither do the majority of traditional singers & dancers.
Singing at a Bass drum sounds like a very bright Idea.
But Women singing on a Bass drum at a pow wow does not sound too wise.Because for one thing, Pow wow's are traditional.
And what dancer is going to blow a whistle for a Bass drum group of girls that sound like a bunch of Felines in heat?
Certainly not one of the right mind. About a month ago I went to a Pow wow in Chilliwak, B.C... And there was this group of women singers there singing at a BUFFALO hide drum, singing traditional songs, and when they sang for my Uncle dancing in Golden age Traditional, It was like there was no spirit, there was no energy......no great feeling.
I am no Sexist or anything of prejudice, but I think women belong behind the drum.

Aho!
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Old 05-28-2002, 08:23 PM   #14
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definition please

sliced brice has a point for a change. MAYBE women shouldnt sing on a bass drum at a traditional pow-wow. Bu what about a compition pow-wow? Huh? Singing with the big dogs for the big money? What is so traditional about a compition pow-wow? How many people have each of us seen, drunk and stoned at a pow-wow? How traditional is THAT? Just the fact that women and men dance together make the pow-wow NON traditional. Not including the fact that you hundreds of eagle feathers there not won through acts of bravery and even women dancing when they are on their cycle. Even women present when they are on their cycle. OoooOOooh...I can go on for days about the atrosities committed against the realm of traditionalism at a modern pow-wow. But I wont. I'll just stop here with the though of a real, old school, before white contact with "Indians" "pow-wow" and what YOU and I see today. And then tell me more about what is traditional.
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Old 05-29-2002, 01:40 AM   #15
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Big Bear you said it all. It's all about the money nothing traditional about that. money money money we all love that. But I have this question for everybody. How come they don't put in the contest rules no women singers at the drum? And I don't want to hear because they don't have to. Give me some answers, because it does effect the judging. You could be the best drum at a contest and not even place because of it.
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Old 05-29-2002, 05:10 PM   #16
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Lightbulb Definition requested.

Okay , alright..... I'll admit it , all pow wow's are'nt based on traditional concepts. But the only reason I protest that women should'nt sing at the drum is because I was taught it is'nt right, and I bet a majority of other people were taught the same thing.
You pray when you sing, you sing to the drum spirit.
That's pretty much all I have to say because there is'nt much I can do to prevent women singing around the drum (from the pawn shop or not).
because eventualy there will be a lot of female drum groups.
Unless of coarse......BigBearStyle has another bright idea?
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Old 05-29-2002, 06:51 PM   #17
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I've been dancing and travelling for as long as I can remember....the powwow life and traditions have been passed down to me from my parents who also have been involved in powwow most of their lives. And this is what I know and have come to believe. Women should not sit or hit the drum like the men do. I was taught women should not even touch or travel in the same vehicle as a drum. But I also think that women back up singers bring their own harmony and spirit when singing behind the men. Women back up singers have been around for a long time and I don't dispute that. But what I don't agree with is women actually sitting at the drum. Women are powerful in their own way especially on their cycle. This is a big no-no! But some women do it anyway. I agree with slicedbryce that the spirit and energy just isn't there with women singers. Its just not the same as when I hear the men singing. Its hard to get into it with a bunch of women who sound like cats. I'm not kidding. I've heard those women singers who are sueing and they sounded terrible to me. When I hear women drummers during an intertribal I just leave the dance floor til the songs over, cuz no one really dances anyway. But as for Bigbears comments about women not being allowed to dance, that was a loooong time ago. So don't even go there cuz you'll never get women to stop dancing....I mean guess who makes most of the outfits out there for their husbands and kids and also help organize these celebrations so the people can DANCE and SING!
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Old 05-30-2002, 11:19 AM   #18
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Lightbulb tapwe

Tapwe.
CreeJingleDress is right.
She knows what shes talking about about.

That's all I have to say about that

Aho! Eksay.
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