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Old 01-02-2002, 08:45 PM   #1
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bustles

alrighty, i have another question on bustles. what is a good extender and how do you use it. this will be my first time trying to construct a bustle so please put it into lamans terms, if you can.


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Old 01-03-2002, 08:57 AM   #2
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I use dowel rods.

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Old 01-03-2002, 09:15 AM   #3
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I use dowel rods on traditional and fancy bustles.

Question... How do most of you string your secondary laces? I've tried drilling through the dowel rod and lacing them there and I've also laced through the quill of the feather. I've found, especially on fancy bustles, that the secondary lace through the quills is stronger than lacing through holes drilled in the dowels. What's everyones opinion or suggestions?

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Old 01-03-2002, 11:26 AM   #4
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Lightbulb

Hey try this on for size, instead of drilling through the dowel I used bobby pins glued and then wrapped over for the lacing-stringing it through the eye of the pin. my 2 cents

doug
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Old 01-04-2002, 10:12 PM   #5
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could someone try to explain how to string a bustle(both primary and secondary laces) I am in the process of making one and it is my first one....thanks

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Old 01-04-2002, 10:47 PM   #6
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There are a couple of ways to string up your bustle. For your primary -- either form a loop at the end of the feather by cutting and folding the quill up or attaching a leather "loop" and attaching it with glue and covering with thread, cloth, etc.

Lay your feathers out in the proper order (how you want them to appear on the bustle) and thread either strong leather thong or even a shoe string through the loops. Your thong used as the primary string is then attached to your bustle base -- I usually tie it in 3-4 places to the base. Once strung, you then need to look closely at the spacing of your feathers an work with them until you get the appearance right. Many modern traditional dancers use spacers (beads) to seperate the feathers and give the appearance they want. These spacers/beads are usually strung on the secondary or bridal string.

Where you place the bridal string is a matter of personal choice and some debate. I suggest at least six inches from the primary string. A lot depends on the legnth of the feathers and whether or not you used dowel extenders on your feathers.

Once you decide where you want your secondary lace to appear, mark each feather accordingly -- measure each feather carefully. Then it's simply a matter of putting a hole through the quill -- use an awl first, then a very small flat head screw driver if necessary. Be careful to punch the hole through the quill without bending it, breaking it or splitting it unnecessarily.

With the holes made, arrange the feathers again and recheck your spacing, then start putting your secondary lace (thin leather thong or other material of choice) through the holes...adding beads as necessary between the feathers to keep the spacing like you want it.

If this has totally confused you, check out some of the books available thathave illustrations. Crazy Crow and other trading companies carry a book by Scott Evans on the northern traditional dancer that I am sure will help.
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Old 01-05-2002, 09:51 PM   #7
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Question Bustles

Two questions. First, are the kits that Crazy Crow or any other company good for beginners, or should we get all the individual components and a good book with instructions. Second, Several years ago, I saw old style "mess" bustles. I liked it but at the last two powwows I've went to, i did not see this style of bustle or dance. Does it still exist or has it been replaced
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Old 01-05-2002, 10:01 PM   #8
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To answer your questions -- in my opinion, the kits from Crazy Crow and others are very good for beginners. All materials are included and instructions are easily to follow. Best advice, especitally if you are a beginner -- take your time, don't cut corners and be patient. I have seen some very nice bustles made from kits purchased from Crazy Crow -- bustles made by both natives and hobbyists at different skill levels. For a beginner, it's a good way to go.

Now, to the "mess" bustles as you (and others) call them. I have been a round bustle dancer for more than 30 years. I prefer this old time style but you don't see it much these days -- it was pretty popular in the 60s but has since faded with the recent rise in popularity of modern traditional. I defer to my good Lakota friends who years ago, gave me the honor, instruction and privilege of dancing this style. There are some good articles on old style bustles in back copies of Whispering Wind -- one of their annual editions has an article dedicated to old style bustles. Check it out. Good luck with your project.
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Old 01-06-2002, 12:00 AM   #9
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Thank you very very much Thestogs for your reply. Are there any other companies that offer bustle kits?

As for the round bustle,That is just my personal preferance, I saw the style at the 94 NOAC and was very impressed with it.
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Old 01-06-2002, 09:13 AM   #10
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GJ

I am sure there are other companies that have bustle kits. I am most familiar with some bustles made from kits purchased from Crazy Crow. I am a long-time customer of Crazy Crow, going back to the the days when it first started business. I have always been happy with every transaction I made through them. Good people. I know the bustles made from the kits purchased there looked really nice -- but again, the company only provided the materials...the person making the bustle had to do the work. Best of luck.
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Old 01-06-2002, 12:04 PM   #11
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If I may offer a suggestion for bustles, I use bamboo skewers as my extensions. What I do is I cut a small portion off the tip of the quill; just big enough to get the skewer in, maybe slightly bigger. Put glue into the quill of the feather; enough until it no longer seaps down. Also, add glue onto the tip end of the skewer and insert. Let the adhesive do its job and set as the bottle directs you too. Cut some leather strips, or you may want to use other things ling bobbin pins, and glue them onto your skewer and wrap with sinew for extra support. This is how you will hold all your feathers together. Then, slide a straw over the skewer and onto the quill. How far you slide it onto the quill is your choice but be sure to cut enough off of the straw at the end where it is overlapping the leather stip, or whatever you use, and add glue and sinew in some fashion to add extra support that it will not go anywhere. Also, I like to put glue on the quills or inside the tips of the straw before slidding it on to strengthen my supports but the bottom end becomes tricky. After you've done all your feathers, you'll want to wrap them, esp. considering you have straws with different colors.

As little tid bits, I definitely recommend laying your feathers out and put them in order before beginning to mess with them so that you will have your idea of what you want. As far as the glue, some people prefer wood glue. Personally, I like the stuff called Bond 557. Don't quote me on the number right now. I'll find out what it is, I just use it!:Chatter Nothing against wood glue, I have used it in the paste and it holds up well too. When putting glue in the quill, you may want to use a hot pin with some diameter to pierce the quill so that the air can get to flowing and the glue as well. Be careful not to pierce it too close to the feather. You don't want to get glue on the feather itself.

Now, I want to caution you. There are at least two different sizes of skewers that I have found. If you can find the package that contains both the regular size and the jumbo size skewers at Wal-Mart for a buck fifty, get 'em. Some feathers are bigger than others. This way, with a little help from the straws, you can accommodate just about any feather.

I hope this helps. There is more I would like to say. But I've gotta run now. Feel free to PM me in the future if you'd like.
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Old 01-06-2002, 01:10 PM   #12
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GJJudd:

Quote:
Are there any other companies that offer bustle kits?
I use Noc Bay Trading Company .
P.O. Box 295
1133 Washington Ave.
Escanaba, MI 49829

1-800-652-7192

With the Traditional Bustles you must:

*Select the type of pointers~~White, Black, Brown, or Imitation Eagle.

*Select two colors of fluffs~~found in another part of the catalog

*Specify color for trailers~~Navy, Red, Green or Purple

*State the person's height so that they can size the materials.

Child size kit is $37.00 (the one I am working on)
Youth size kit is $42.00
Adult size kit is $45.00


HOPE THIS HELPS!!!!:Thumbs
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Old 01-06-2002, 07:47 PM   #13
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Oh yeah! I also wanted to mention that the bamboo skewers will allow dancers to include a little "shake and bake" in their dance. A little more than dowel rods will. Well, depending on the diameter and length of the dowel. Although I think the dowel method is stronger with its interior support (support inside the quill), I feel the skewer does the same. Maybe not as strong, but it certainly has something holding it from within and on the outside. I've danced with both and they work well. Its all in your resources and taste.
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Old 01-06-2002, 08:44 PM   #14
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where do you get the bamboo skewers at. i would like to try this method.


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Old 01-06-2002, 10:08 PM   #15
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Old 01-06-2002, 11:49 PM   #16
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question on bustle types

I am looking at the bustle kits in the Crazy Crow catalog and my question is this: what is the difference between the Oklahoma back bustle and the traditional bustle. What style is more prevelent? Unfortunately, not to many Powwows in LA. Went to LIHA and did not see any OK bustles.
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Old 01-07-2002, 08:06 AM   #17
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If you are doing Northern Traditional Dancing, go with their Traditional Bustle. It's the one made out of turkey spikes.

In making your loops at the bottom, I'm not crazy about cutting them out of the feather. I think it's more sturdy to add leather or something else for the loop.

My co-moderator is more fond of the old-style bustle than I am and might be able to post some things about those. In my travels the only place I've seen those old style mess bustles worn are at NOAC. You don't see them much outside of NOAC and BSA events. I've had people tell me that they are seeing them elsewhere, but I haven't.

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Old 01-08-2002, 06:19 PM   #18
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Question old style

I think the statment that you don't see the old style danced any where but at scout dances is right on. There may be a very few people who do it other places, but I don't think that they do it the way scouts do.
Those that dance in an older style of clothes tend to still miss it with a few newer item to make it special to them.
I would suggest that you go with the normal flow. There are so many good books out there and some great videos to get some ideas on bustles. Scott Evans book has got some good close ups to show the wide range of ideas in modern bustles.
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