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View Poll Results: Who are you voting for in 2012???
Barak Obama 6 42.86%
Gary Johnson 0 0%
Michele Bachmann 0 0%
Ron Paul 1 7.14%
Jon Huntsman 1 7.14%
Newt Gingrich 1 7.14%
Rick Perry 0 0%
Mitt Romney 1 7.14%
Rick Santorum 0 0%
Other.... 4 28.57%
Voters: 14. You may not vote on this poll

Forum Home - Go Back > Off Topic > Chit Chat 2012 Elections.... Obama or Republicans??? 2012 Elections.... Obama or Republicans???

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Old 01-02-2012, 01:13 AM   #61
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Originally Posted by Sunktaki View Post
Oppps couldn't help myself...
Just out of curiousity, how can you vote for someone that will force you to buy something you don't want...or you will get fined.
I have lived almost 40 years with social medicine, when I was living in Sweden, and yes I would love to see it here, I was used to pay about 10 dollars for an office visit and about 25 for hospital, that includes everything except, the bed, which was about 6 dollars a night.
The ObamaCare is about is nothing like social medicine, and to force it on people is wrong. Beside how are people that can't afford to buy the insurance afford to pay the fine...



Well they may include that with the Welfare Plan that is only for single parent's who don't want to get up to TRY and apply for a job while Married Couples who constantly search for a job and get denied for all benefits because they are married.
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Old 01-02-2012, 01:17 AM   #62
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Originally Posted by Sunktaki View Post
Makes you wonder why they don't use the same energi to get something real done, or maybe they cant get anything done becase they are sooo tired after talking rubbish about eachother...
I wish someone could make a potluck of good things from both sides and make it work, because both sides do have some good ideas, it's time they take off the blindfold, and ego kick, and actually listen to each other, maybe more can be done, no matter who is in charge


As long as they get paid the way they do, that will never happen. They are there for the money and self greed. they screw the public with no KY and laugh.
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Old 01-02-2012, 11:23 PM   #63
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My thoughts on the candidates

The main issue right now is the economy. Obama has scored some
points on foreign policy (e.g. getting rid of Osama bin Ladin--
good riddence!!!), some on the environment (but he has backed
down under pressure on others) and MAYBE some on healthcare.
(Although Obamacare should really be called Romneycare--the bill
was largely written by Romney who now says it will work at the
state level but not the federal level). But where Obama has
failed is on the economy. I am not sure the Republicans can do
any better, and some of them are right wing crackpots who want
to do away with social security, medicare, unemployment insurance,
disability insurance, child labor laws, the 40-hour work week and
minimum wage, and even public education. My solution--a more
reasonable one than my suggestion of writing in Winona LaDuke--
is to find the last American who won a Nobel Prize in economics
and who is still alive, and nominate THEM for president. NONE of
the candidates really seem to understand the economy; we need a
top economist in the presidency in order to fix things.
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Old 01-05-2012, 10:38 AM   #64
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The main issue right now is the economy. Obama has scored some
points on foreign policy (e.g. getting rid of Osama bin Ladin--
good riddence!!!), some on the environment (but he has backed
down under pressure on others) and MAYBE some on healthcare.
(Although Obamacare should really be called Romneycare--the bill
was largely written by Romney who now says it will work at the
state level but not the federal level). But where Obama has
failed is on the economy. I am not sure the Republicans can do
any better, and some of them are right wing crackpots who want
to do away with social security, medicare, unemployment insurance,
disability insurance, child labor laws, the 40-hour work week and
minimum wage, and even public education. My solution--a more
reasonable one than my suggestion of writing in Winona LaDuke--
is to find the last American who won a Nobel Prize in economics
and who is still alive, and nominate THEM for president. NONE of
the candidates really seem to understand the economy; we need a
top economist in the presidency in order to fix things.
I'll semi agree with most of this, I think what we really need is a President who has a pair on him who can say to the rest of the world, Look as Americans we take care of our own first, that is why we are pulling contracts and nulling and voiding agreements that keep jobs in other countries. If you are an American (corporate office) company but you purchase manufacture, assemble and ship from other countries, either pull out now or bring your company back to US soil, or we are gonna tax the living h e double hockey sticks out of ya. Sorry (insert country here) __________, but every since we've been paying our farmers to not grow food and been buying from you, we've seen increases of ecoli, and other bacteria on our foods. McDonalds, you don't want to buy American beef, because they "can't supply you with the demands"? What? BS. Then get out. You want to fix the economy, make a market, for far too long we have put our hands into growing the economies of the foreign countries, and we've done so on a level that we've marketed ourselves right out of jobs. Most of this started with Carter. In the earlier part of the 2000's China built 3 new cities with the purpose of destroying our economy, I'd say they have succeeded.

Healthcare, well, as an American, I have a right to not buy healthcare if I don't want to, Obama or Romney, can't change that. As far as all the other issues, well, we don't have the time or space on this entire web page to even scratch the surface, but I will leave you with this, and I'd advise everyone to research this for yourselves, don't just take my word for it. I CAN NOT stand behind someone who has done nothing but promote fairness and equality for all, when they have in actuality done nothing but steal from those who need it most. And I don't mean we are all in need so that's me. I'm talking the disabled, the elderly, the poor, the widows and the orphans. Since Obamas election, more money has been, "reallocated" (nice PC word huh?) from the disabled and special needs community than from any other place. Search it out for yourselves.
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Old 01-05-2012, 01:46 PM   #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sunktaki View Post
Oppps couldn't help myself...
Just out of curiousity, how can you vote for someone that will force you to buy something you don't want...or you will get fined.
I have lived almost 40 years with social medicine, when I was living in Sweden, and yes I would love to see it here, I was used to pay about 10 dollars for an office visit and about 25 for hospital, that includes everything except, the bed, which was about 6 dollars a night.
The ObamaCare is about is nothing like social medicine, and to force it on people is wrong. Beside how are people that can't afford to buy the insurance afford to pay the fine...
LOL, well the elephant in the room on socialized medicine is that yes, your medical is free or very discounted, BUT, you're taxed like crazy, I believe Canada is what about 30% ontop of about 5% payroll about a 2% employment insurance and then a 5% federal tax. Does that sound about right @yaahl, or are my numbers wrong? From a few of the guys that I have worked with who have been in Germany have said that is about 40-45%, 26% Social Security, 7-19% on food. So yes socialized medicine sounds great, but you are still paying for it, it is NOT free, never has been. I don't know where people get confused about this. You may not have to pay like we do here in the US, but you are still paying one way or the other. Then of those whom I have talked with about socialized medicine, it sounds to me like it really isn't much better in not worse, than IHS and.or ACCCHSS (welfare insurance)


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Originally Posted by Toolbox View Post
The healthcare law is just absurd to begin with, but you have to keep in mind that what has passed of the law was not how it was originally designed. Members of congress and the senate would only vote yes on it if the original authors made certain changes to it. You guessed it those changes are the ones that were put in to purposely cause the bill to fail and make Obama look like an idiot. This whole time the republicans have done nothing but play party games and stall the growth of our fragile economy just so they can make the other guys look bad, so they can win the next election. You want proof just watch CSPAN any day when all it is showing is the room where they (politicians) are debating bills.
Again I guess that's the dangers of passing something so you can see what is in it.

As with anything proposed, it shall never come out looking the same way it went in, and there will be provisions and clingons piled upon it, but! HE STILL SIGNED IT!, and still pushed for mandatory health coverage, or pay a penalty. In America! Really? a 3rd grader could tell you that that monstrosity was a complete and total violation of one's Constitutional rights.

Regarding Republicans, yeah, they are acting exactly like the Dems did during Bushes 2 terms. Which is why it is even more sickening to me, because here they have been screaming about the Dems, yet they are doing it themselves. These are grown adults and our so called, "Representatives" and they bicker and argue and play stupid games like 2 year olds who don't really know any better.
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Old 01-05-2012, 02:00 PM   #66
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Wasn't the relloction of funds for the disabled, and other social programs because of the recent budget cuts made by the party of "everyone for themselves and screw your neighbor"? This last congress and senate did nothing but fight tooth and nail to get their way like little kids instead of bargaining the democratic way. Most people agree that the electing the tea party was the worst idea they have ever done and that was straight from the mouths of people who voted for them. The same has also come from the mouths of Obama supporters who think that he isn't doing the job they thought he was going do.

The problem is that most of this country is ignorant when it comes to how our political system actually works and how foreign affairs are dealt with. Like most people will say "Stop sending money to places like Pakistan!" Well they don't realize we have a military presence there and plus it allows us to have a bargaining chip for the trade of valuable intel. In fact I'd be willing to bet that most people in this country don't know what the job of the president actually is. I'm not saying this applies to anyone here because thus far everyone's opinions are very much valid and interesting. I will say it applies to the hosts of Faux News shows.
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Old 01-05-2012, 04:38 PM   #67
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Originally Posted by Toolbox View Post
Wasn't the relloction of funds for the disabled, and other social programs because of the recent budget cuts made by the party of "everyone for themselves and screw your neighbor"? This last congress and senate did nothing but fight tooth and nail to get their way like little kids instead of bargaining the democratic way. Most people agree that the electing the tea party was the worst idea they have ever done and that was straight from the mouths of people who voted for them. The same has also come from the mouths of Obama supporters who think that he isn't doing the job they thought he was going do.

The problem is that most of this country is ignorant when it comes to how our political system actually works and how foreign affairs are dealt with. Like most people will say "Stop sending money to places like Pakistan!" Well they don't realize we have a military presence there and plus it allows us to have a bargaining chip for the trade of valuable intel. In fact I'd be willing to bet that most people in this country don't know what the job of the president actually is. I'm not saying this applies to anyone here because thus far everyone's opinions are very much valid and interesting. I will say it applies to the hosts of Faux News shows.
I still stand on my initial post. They are ALL IDIOTS!
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Old 01-05-2012, 06:57 PM   #68
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LOL, well the elephant in the room on socialized medicine is that yes, your medical is free or very discounted, BUT, you're taxed like crazy, I believe Canada is what about 30% ontop of about 5% payroll about a 2% employment insurance and then a 5% federal tax. Does that sound about right @yaahl, or are my numbers wrong? From a few of the guys that I have worked with who have been in Germany have said that is about 40-45%, 26% Social Security, 7-19% on food. So yes socialized medicine sounds great, but you are still paying for it, it is NOT free, never has been. I don't know where people get confused about this. You may not have to pay like we do here in the US, but you are still paying one way or the other. Then of those whom I have talked with about socialized medicine, it sounds to me like it really isn't much better in not worse, than IHS and.or ACCCHSS (welfare insurance)




Again I guess that's the dangers of passing something so you can see what is in it.

As with anything proposed, it shall never come out looking the same way it went in, and there will be provisions and clingons piled upon it, but! HE STILL SIGNED IT!, and still pushed for mandatory health coverage, or pay a penalty. In America! Really? a 3rd grader could tell you that that monstrosity was a complete and total violation of one's Constitutional rights.

Regarding Republicans, yeah, they are acting exactly like the Dems did during Bushes 2 terms. Which is why it is even more sickening to me, because here they have been screaming about the Dems, yet they are doing it themselves. These are grown adults and our so called, "Representatives" and they bicker and argue and play stupid games like 2 year olds who don't really know any better.
Most provinces now (health care is a provincial under the 91/92 constitutional division of powers) have the user fees taken from corporate and personal tax. Some provinces like Ontario, charge a health care surtax at income tax time between &400-750 per tax payer (depending on income levels).

Alberta just did away with individual contributions and now use the employer based contributions (I could be a bit off as the Military members here are not eligible for provincial health care as we are covered by DND (who oddly enough contract with the provinces for our care...lol).

The Yukon actually has the most comprehensive health care for both native and non natives. But then, the population up there is approx 35,000. Not a huge push on for services.

What gets missed in these types of discussions is that the federal government also provides transfer payments to the provinces and all those numbers come from the Ottawa Charter from the 90s. The provinces will decide what to cover and what not to cover...people are surprised to discover that their doctor will only discuss one ailment per office visit, why? because they aren't paid for more than one DX at a time. Over the years, quite a number of services have been removed from Prov health care coverage - to be honest most of the services were in the cosmetic side of medicine or admin stuff like sick letters.

The point of our system is that not one single Canadian will ever have to fear that they will get sick and not be able to access care that is affordable or covered. The free part is what appears to people that they aren't the ones paying directly - we used us have to pay premiums back in the 80s per family but that stopped when too many stopped paying and weren't covered because of low income. The reality is, we pay for it, along with employers, through our income taxes, retail taxes and GST.

If you really want to learn about the health care up here start with the documents by Tommy Douglas from Sask then read up on the Ottawa Charter and transfer payment debates on health care.

Our income tax levels are dependant on where you live. The federal tax rate is based on 17% up to the 29K a year then 21% up to 39k and then 27% over 40K. IOW, for the first 20k you earn it's taxed federally at 17% then the amount over that at 21% and so on. Provincial income tax varies from province to province, the most expensive is Quebec and the cheapest is the Yukon and Alberta. The rest range from making a combined income tax rate of about 30-33% - more if you are a high earner. Our personal deductions are fairly liberal so it's not as bad as some people think - except Ontario.. they suck the blood out of a stone and them some...lol
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Old 01-06-2012, 01:17 AM   #69
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LOL, well the elephant in the room on socialized medicine is that yes, your medical is free or very discounted, BUT, you're taxed like crazy, I believe Canada is what about 30% ontop of about 5% payroll about a 2% employment insurance and then a 5% federal tax. Does that sound about right @yaahl, or are my numbers wrong? From a few of the guys that I have worked with who have been in Germany have said that is about 40-45%, 26% Social Security, 7-19% on food. So yes socialized medicine sounds great, but you are still paying for it, it is NOT free, never has been. I don't know where people get confused about this. You may not have to pay like we do here in the US, but you are still paying one way or the other. Then of those whom I have talked with about socialized medicine, it sounds to me like it really isn't much better in not worse, than IHS and.or ACCCHSS (welfare insurance)
In sweden you pay about 28% in taxes, that's it, of that you have subsidized(socialized) medical and dental care, hospital, ER care, drugs, child care, elder care, childrens medical and dental is free up to the age of 18, or when they finish school. No pre existing conditions exist, you get medical and dental care for anything and everything, except cosmetic surgery that is not a medical reason, they are not covered. Also included in that tax, is free shool lunch, most school material,i.e. paper, binders, etc. Free eductaion, after 9th grade, which there is more field minded, for example, 3 years in nursing school or carpenter school, och car mechanic, is free, just like if you want 4 years of trade and economic school.

The problem is that many think that the "Obama Care", is a type of socialized medicine, which it is not. People still will have to buy insurance, and fight about pre existing conditions. And the bottom line is, you are forced to buy the insurance, if you don't, you get a fine, so where is the freedom.
I don't know who to vote for if it was today...well I do know...none, as I can't vote yet...lol...pheeew, but hopefully will have my citizenship by election time, so am following the political nonsens closely.
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Old 01-06-2012, 01:32 AM   #70
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LOL, well the elephant in the room on socialized medicine is that yes, your medical is free or very discounted, BUT, you're taxed like crazy, I believe Canada is what about 30% ontop of about 5% payroll about a 2% employment insurance and then a 5% federal tax. Does that sound about right @yaahl, or are my numbers wrong? From a few of the guys that I have worked with who have been in Germany have said that is about 40-45%, 26% Social Security, 7-19% on food. So yes socialized medicine sounds great, but you are still paying for it, it is NOT free, never has been. I don't know where people get confused about this. You may not have to pay like we do here in the US, but you are still paying one way or the other. Then of those whom I have talked with about socialized medicine, it sounds to me like it really isn't much better in not worse, than IHS and.or ACCCHSS (welfare insurance)
In sweden you pay about 28% in taxes, that's it, of that you have subsidized(socialized) medical and dental care, hospital, ER care, drugs, child care, elder care, childrens medical and dental is free up to the age of 18, or when they finish school. No pre existing conditions exist, you get medical and dental care for anything and everything, except cosmetic surgery that is not a medical reason, they are not covered. Also included in that tax, is free shool lunch, most school material,i.e. paper, binders, etc. Free eductaion, after 9th grade, which there is more field minded, for example, 3 years in nursing school or carpenter school, och car mechanic, is free, just like if you want 4 years of trade and economic school.

The problem is that many think that the "Obama Care", is a type of socialized medicine, which it is not. People still will have to buy insurance, and fight about pre existing conditions. And the bottom line is, you are forced to buy the insurance, if you don't, you get a fine, so where is the freedom.
I don't know who to vote for if it was today...well I do know...none, as I can't vote yet...lol...pheeew, but hopefully will have my citizenship by election time, so am following the political nonsens closely.
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Old 01-06-2012, 09:05 AM   #71
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In sweden you pay about 28% in taxes, that's it, of that you have subsidized(socialized) medical and dental care, hospital, ER care, drugs, child care, elder care, childrens medical and dental is free up to the age of 18, or when they finish school. No pre existing conditions exist, you get medical and dental care for anything and everything, except cosmetic surgery that is not a medical reason, they are not covered. Also included in that tax, is free shool lunch, most school material,i.e. paper, binders, etc. Free eductaion, after 9th grade, which there is more field minded, for example, 3 years in nursing school or carpenter school, och car mechanic, is free, just like if you want 4 years of trade and economic school.

The problem is that many think that the "Obama Care", is a type of socialized medicine, which it is not. People still will have to buy insurance, and fight about pre existing conditions. And the bottom line is, you are forced to buy the insurance, if you don't, you get a fine, so where is the freedom.
I don't know who to vote for if it was today...well I do know...none, as I can't vote yet...lol...pheeew, but hopefully will have my citizenship by election time, so am following the political nonsens closely.
OK, I have to admit, that I even like the sound of that. Sounds like Sweden's got it together. As far as ObamaCare being or not being socialized medicine, maybe not to you our others who live or have lived in countries where socialized med is the medical system you have, but for us in America, it is the first step towards it, (I believe).

Great info though. Thanks
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