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Old 01-28-2013, 06:05 AM   #1
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Do Penalties for Smokers and the Obese Make Sense

Writing this I hope I won't get lashed out at for posting some experiences on this subject.

First of all - if you don't smoke - never start it as it will only cause addiction and as they say it is NOT good for your health.

Second - unfortunately I began to smoke and I did it for many years. Then I stopped smoking for about 10 years.

Third - I gained unhealthy weight while smoking didn't cause me any problems

Fourth - during those 10 odd years not smoking I felt physically really bad - recently diabeties got diagnosed, inhereted it from my grandmother

Fifth - for some strange reason I began to smoke again last year

Sixth - I lost a lot of weight - I eat normal again

Seventh - I never felt healthier than all those years when I didn't smoke - infact I can run dance enjoy life much better and being slim helps with the diabeties not to get those long term illnesses diabeties cause because of having normal weight now

Eight - it would have been better to get slim without having had to smoke cigarettes but no diet ever worked for me

Nineth - and now to answer the question in this thread: Adult people - should we not be allowed to decide what we want to do in life without anyone telling us what we must or musn't do and if we don't do what they say getting a penalty?

Tenth - I think it's gross to punish people for choosing their personal ways. Besides some kind of obesity is a real illness and people just can't really slim.

Eleventh - it is okay when smokers will not smoke cigarettes while being with non smokers - I accept that

Twelfth - if all this would get penalized then it won't take long that more and more things considered unhealthy would get penalized also and what do we get in the end? A lot of sick people that are unhappy and go crazy because of having lost the right of self-determination.

Thirteeth - a far worse drug is alcohol - some people can cope with it a lot cannot - those who can't cope with it need help not punishment - some drink because life can be so unbearable that they lost all hope for betterment - maybe tried for many years to change things - didn't succeed no matter what they tried and in the end grab to the booze. That is very sad.

Self-determination is important for health but punishment for self-determination is the worst. And I do NOT recomment doing or starting up anything that's considered unhealthy. I do not support unhealthy things but I like to keep my self-determination without getting punished for it.
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Old 01-28-2013, 11:07 AM   #2
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"I hated cigarettes until I saw my first 'No Smoking' sign"
-Hudson Hawk

Seriously, freedoms include the freedom to make not so great personal choices.

Would we be a healthier society if the goon-verment were to bully the general population into healthier lifestyles? Sure! It would also be beneficial for the collective if we were to assign occupations based on the aptitude of the individual rather than let people pursue their own passions, or if you were assigned a mate based on genetic compatibility, or limit one child per household to keep a manageable population, or eliminate religion to keep folks from having any divided loyalties.

You could make a logical argument for any of the above options, but the fact remains they would infringe on our freedoms. and would ultimately amount to tyranny. one thing that really bugs me lately is the fact that we are constantly inching closer and closer to the future we saw in "Demolition Man". Where anything that is not good for you is therefore bad, and anything that is bad is illegal. I'll take freedom over safety any day of the week.

In summation "for your own good" legislation rarely does anyone any good in the end.

and does anyone else notice such penalties would primarily affect the impoverished?
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Old 01-28-2013, 12:28 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Forgottengermanwoman View Post
Writing this I hope I won't get lashed out at for posting some experiences on this subject.

First of all - if you don't smoke - never start it as it will only cause addiction and as they say it is NOT good for your health.

Second - unfortunately I began to smoke and I did it for many years. Then I stopped smoking for about 10 years.

Third - I gained unhealthy weight while smoking didn't cause me any problems

Fourth - during those 10 odd years not smoking I felt physically really bad - recently diabeties got diagnosed, inhereted it from my grandmother

Fifth - for some strange reason I began to smoke again last year

Sixth - I lost a lot of weight - I eat normal again

Seventh - I never felt healthier than all those years when I didn't smoke - infact I can run dance enjoy life much better and being slim helps with the diabeties not to get those long term illnesses diabeties cause because of having normal weight now

Eight - it would have been better to get slim without having had to smoke cigarettes but no diet ever worked for me

Nineth - and now to answer the question in this thread: Adult people - should we not be allowed to decide what we want to do in life without anyone telling us what we must or musn't do and if we don't do what they say getting a penalty?

Tenth - I think it's gross to punish people for choosing their personal ways. Besides some kind of obesity is a real illness and people just can't really slim.

Eleventh - it is okay when smokers will not smoke cigarettes while being with non smokers - I accept that

Twelfth - if all this would get penalized then it won't take long that more and more things considered unhealthy would get penalized also and what do we get in the end? A lot of sick people that are unhappy and go crazy because of having lost the right of self-determination.

Thirteeth - a far worse drug is alcohol - some people can cope with it a lot cannot - those who can't cope with it need help not punishment - some drink because life can be so unbearable that they lost all hope for betterment - maybe tried for many years to change things - didn't succeed no matter what they tried and in the end grab to the booze. That is very sad.

Self-determination is important for health but punishment for self-determination is the worst. And I do NOT recomment doing or starting up anything that's considered unhealthy. I do not support unhealthy things but I like to keep my self-determination without getting punished for it.
Wow, how many times did you contradict yourself? What are you really trying to say?

Are you being penalized for smoking? Or being obese?

Or are you trying to justify your present smoking habit?
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Old 01-28-2013, 01:11 PM   #4
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Originally Posted by wyo_rose View Post
Wow, how many times did you contradict yourself? What are you really trying to say?

Are you being penalized for smoking? Or being obese?

Or are you trying to justify your present smoking habit?
I just tried to say what I wrote.
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Old 01-28-2013, 03:03 PM   #5
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I tried to make a reply and the computer crashed.

I think you are saying: You are unhappy because you know smoking is bad for you, and you also know that gaining weight is bad for you. The message is simple. You lack self discipline.

I think you like to understand the Indian way, so I will share one of the ways of the past. In the old times and across many Indian nations, young children were taught to fast. First a meal, then part of a day and then for a full day...just as much as they could handle when they were young. Then they would expand that through adolescence. The lesson (among others) is self discipline.

I'm not saying it's easy, but it is like a muscle. You exercise it, start small and expand on it, and your self discipline gets stronger.

You are never too old to learn self discipline.
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Old 01-28-2013, 03:17 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by docat View Post
I tried to make a reply and the computer crashed.

I think you are saying: You are unhappy because you know smoking is bad for you, and you also know that gaining weight is bad for you. The message is simple. You lack self discipline.

I think you like to understand the Indian way, so I will share one of the ways of the past. In the old times and across many Indian nations, young children were taught to fast. First a meal, then part of a day and then for a full day...just as much as they could handle when they were young. Then they would expand that through adolescence. The lesson (among others) is self discipline.

I'm not saying it's easy, but it is like a muscle. You exercise it, start small and expand on it, and your self discipline gets stronger.

You are never too old to learn self discipline.
I am happy to smoke and I have enough self dicipline because if I didn't had it I would not live anymore. You don't know me so you can't see it. I want to smoke and it makes me happy.
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Old 01-28-2013, 03:46 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Forgottengermanwoman View Post
I am happy to smoke and I have enough self dicipline because if I didn't had it I would not live anymore. You don't know me so you can't see it. I want to smoke and it makes me happy.
So if you are happy to smoke, what is the motive for the post? To declare that you are happy to smoke? There are a lot of happy smokers out there. Some of my best friends are happy smokers. It isn't rare by any means. So ignore my post. I misunderstood you.

On an aside, have you seen the campaign, "Let's Keep Tobacco Sacred." It does make you stop and think...
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Old 01-28-2013, 04:24 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wyo_rose View Post
Wow, how many times did you contradict yourself? What are you really trying to say?

Are you being penalized for smoking? Or being obese?

Or are you trying to justify your present smoking habit?
That's exactly what I thought
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Old 01-28-2013, 05:35 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by docat View Post
So if you are happy to smoke, what is the motive for the post? To declare that you are happy to smoke? There are a lot of happy smokers out there. Some of my best friends are happy smokers. It isn't rare by any means. So ignore my post. I misunderstood you.

On an aside, have you seen the campaign, "Let's Keep Tobacco Sacred." It does make you stop and think...
The motive for this post is that I do not like when some people want to take away self-determination from others or want punish people, if they don't like something about other peoples self-determination. Who do I mean by they, all those that think they can dominate free people.

Concerning your aside mentioning - thank you very much - I appreciate what you wrote and I got to read about this campaign. I understand I think. Thanks

Perhaps you would like to read this
http://www.ani-kutani.com/nativeamer...ed_tobacco.htm

Last edited by Spiritflight; 01-28-2013 at 05:54 PM..
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Old 01-31-2013, 12:21 AM   #10
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I think the Forgottenwoman is half-off her rocker.
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Old 01-31-2013, 01:34 AM   #11
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Wanjica,
I think the translations are sometimes difficult.
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Old 01-31-2013, 05:51 AM   #12
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I think the Forgottenwoman is half-off her rocker.
At least not completely off - I got reason - living inbetween two worlds. Some people get like that. Talk to me - if you want.
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Old 01-31-2013, 05:53 AM   #13
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Read this "Do Penalties for Smokers and the Obese Make Sense" somewhere in the news - so I thought to post it here - to leave everyone to draw their own conclusions on that. No more - no less.
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Old 01-31-2013, 10:55 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Forgottengermanwoman View Post
Read this "Do Penalties for Smokers and the Obese Make Sense" somewhere in the news - so I thought to post it here - to leave everyone to draw their own conclusions on that. No more - no less.
OK....what type of penalties?
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Old 01-31-2013, 01:49 PM   #15
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OK....what type of penalties?
What I read was that they (I don't know who) thought about making health insurance more expensive for those that smoke and/or are obese.
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Old 01-31-2013, 04:16 PM   #16
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What I read was that they (I don't know who) thought about making health insurance more expensive for those that smoke and/or are obese.
I don't think they should raise someone's health insurance because of smoking or being obese. I had a severely disabled son and could not believe how much more all the equipment cost, not to mention all the times I had to go to specialist just to tell me he was doing good. I believe our health care system is out of control.
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Old 01-31-2013, 04:22 PM   #17
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I don't think they should raise someone's health insurance because of smoking or being obese. I had a severely disabled son and could not believe how much more all the equipment cost, not to mention all the times I had to go to specialist just to tell me he was doing good. I believe our health care system is out of control.
hm.... yes....
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Old 01-31-2013, 04:31 PM   #18
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Why should they not be allowed to raise the health insurance rates of someone who smokes? They make car insurance higher for people who speed a lot or who have been in several accidents. People in those groups are high risk and thus it cost the insurance providers a lot more money.

Raising on obese people is a bit different because some of those people are obese because of medical problems and, supposedly, the newer laws prevent pre-exisiting conditions and massive rate increases for people in that group. However if you eat McDonald's or other greasy fast food all the time, get no exercise and have health problems, in addition to being obese from the act of eating like a slob, then you should have to pay more.

Why should my health insurance costs go up or remain high to cover the costs of health care for smokers, alcoholics, and slobs who don't attempt to take care of their health? If you make the decision to smoke or drink or eat bad food in excess then you should be prepared to cover the costs and understand that you will pay for it later when you get sick.

***Note that I am not calling people who are obese due to any medical reason slobs.
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Old 01-31-2013, 04:39 PM   #19
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Why should they not be allowed to raise the health insurance rates of someone who smokes? They make car insurance higher for people who speed a lot or who have been in several accidents. People in those groups are high risk and thus it cost the insurance providers a lot more money.

Raising on obese people is a bit different because some of those people are obese because of medical problems and, supposedly, the newer laws prevent pre-exisiting conditions and massive rate increases for people in that group. However if you eat McDonald's or other greasy fast food all the time, get no exercise and have health problems, in addition to being obese from the act of eating like a slob, then you should have to pay more.

Why should my health insurance costs go up or remain high to cover the costs of health care for smokers, alcoholics, and slobs who don't attempt to take care of their health? If you make the decision to smoke or drink or eat bad food in excess then you should be prepared to cover the costs and understand that you will pay for it later when you get sick.

***Note that I am not calling people who are obese due to any medical reason slobs.
On the whole those rates are way too high anyway, especially for poor people, that's why. My opinion.
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Old 01-31-2013, 04:39 PM   #20
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In fact they already do charge smokers more for health insurance here in the US... well most carriers anyways based on state and federal laws.
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