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Forum Home - Go Back > Off Topic > Chit Chat Etsy..Head Dresses Etsy..Head Dresses

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Old 04-03-2014, 11:05 AM   #1
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Etsy..Head Dresses

Omg I am both Shocked and to be honest feeling Sickened aswell and
Angry..Because, I was looking for Handmade Custom Head Dresses/Head Bands for my Neices Wedding In June, as she is getting married in Greece, high up in a beautiful mountain,and I am Chief Bridesmaid and Lead Dancer ..Yep...I can hear your brains churning ."Head Dresses..Lead Dancer" lol...Nothing to do with your proud heritage but mine honestly...And when I say Head Dresses I mean Yes..Big..But No Feathers etc..It means Large White/Cream Silk Flowers,,Artificial Large Silk White/Cream Leaves to give image of people of the forests/mountains etc Lots Of Beading, silver chains..pearls, crystals etc which is Looped all through the Head and Hangs down Across the Forhead and Loops towards the eyes Down almost giving it a Eye Mask Effect...they look beautiful if made correctly and customized to the wearers needs etc.., and I was looking at the Belly Dancing Custom Clothing to customise and alter toy needs.. and Accessories..when the pics popped up...

Right getting back on topic... .I came across the above site ie Etsy and while I was brousing custom hand made etc I felt Sick..and Angry when I saw....Real.."Wolf Heads..Whole Wolf Body Skinned..etc etc etc...Even the Little Coyete..Head..Body..etc..and Fox...Therecwas aMessage Saying "Due to changes in Wolf laws being they can no longer make them..they can stillake them if you send them a wolf skin..head etc ..But They can still supply and make ..Coyete..Fox ..I think also this site should of also had warning info..saying it uses real images of dead animals outside..As Wolf Complete skin was Not Block photo but photographed outside on grass...I am hoping that I missed info somewhere saying this is a specialist site for certain users or something but I could not see that? But I may have missed something about this site as I was rather shocked about it..

They say....All these are Authentic Native American Headresses...and made by their Craftsmen..Other Head Dresses are also...Advertised as "Authentic Chief Headresses...with Real Duck Feathers and Assortment of Other Feathered Authentic Native American Head Dresses..They seem to have Different Names for Different types of Headresses also.

What made me want to throw up my stomach was when I saw a Picture of what appeared to be looking at colour of his skin on my kindle.. a "White Man Stretched Out On All Fours..With the Head Of A Real Wolf Over His Head..and The Rest Of The Wolf's Body Over His Back .Arms and Legs..To Give The Impression "He Was The Wolf or Inside The Wolf" ...Surely this Cannot Be Right? Or Allowed??....This Site sells worldwide to anybody...advertising as Authentic Native American?...give pression it has many approvals.. (But I maybe wrong or have misunderstood what this site is this?)...as they seem to be saying and giving the "impressions that NDN's are Making these...As the way I see it "Something can only be Authentic If the Wearer has Made This in Their Heritage's Way..Customs and Craftsmanship....As I read on here the hard work, pride,and love and tradition you put into what you are making and you wear them full of Pride and Honour"..

Finally though now...My heart is crying for the little cunning Coyete and the Crafty Fox who are going to be ..Killed..Hunted..and Skinned as there is no Law to Protect them From "Sites Like This" who sell them to anybody as "Authentic Native American Head Dresses Etc and give the Imlression it is "Made and Crafted By Your People" And For What Reason???.... "A Price and Greed"....If you look at this Site...I must Warn You...The Wolf, Coyote, Fox..Headresses..Skins..etc Pictures Are Dusgusting and Shameful..and Sickening ...
Sorry this is soooo long...but this is something I feel very passionate about ..It is Showing, Selling... False, Offensive Pics and Information ..of the Native American Indian People and Totally Disrespecting the Spirits of the Proud Wolf..Cunning Coyete..Crafty Fox who have been killed and their Bodies taken, Skinned and Used for people to Shamefully Wear to make them think they are "Native American Indian"...and Would Not Know Anything NDN "Even If It Jumped Up and Bit Them In The Butt"....The Whole Thing Is Shameful and Sickening:((

I am hoping someone is going to say I am wrong about the above and this is a special site..or special orders etc?..but if what I have said above or suspect it is just people using people's heritage for solely their commercial gain etc ((......And If I find out I am Right...Well I am going to be Sending Them "A Peice of My Mind..And Give it to them Big Time....And by the Time I am Finished With them they are going "To Be Wishing They Had Someone's Skin They Can Crawl Into And Hide"!!!!!!!! Yes We Irish are Fun Loving People and Easy Goingb....But We are Also Known For Our "Temper" Hence The Expression and Terminology "Throwing A Paddy"...I have Finished Venting Now...Sorry....An knowing me..I have got the whole thing wrong..

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Old 04-03-2014, 01:34 PM   #2
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Jeanniebee, there are a several dimension to your -- uh -- question, rant, whatever.

1) The sale of items as Native made. In the US, the Indian Arts and Crafts Act of 1990 (IACA) regulates the marketing of items purported to be of Native manufacture. This is not a law governing what can be sold, but it is essentially an accurate labeling law. The short form is: in order for an item to be lawfully labelled Native made the artist must have a Certificate of Degree Indian Blood (CDIB) and/or be an enrolled tribal member. (A CDIB is a government issued card that documents your degree of Native descent. Tribal enrollment standards are determined by individual tribes.)

The upshot of this is individuals or galleries marketing items a Native made, who do not have proof of the artists eligibility under the IACA can be subjected to hefty fines and/or jail time. But, this law does not regulate sales outside the US.

2) The sale of hides, feathers, etc, in the US, is governed by a number of laws and entities. The Migratory Bird Treaty Act (MBTA) regulates ownership and transfer of feathers. CITES (forget what that stands for) governs the international trade in endangered animal products. And state games laws cover much of the rest. Unless a sale violates one of these laws, it is not regulated.

3) The use of animal parts in Native arts. This is reality. Things die to make items for regalia, ceremonies and other cultural reasons. There are spiritual implications to the use of many of these items. And in some cases there are prayers and ceremonies that are part of their "harvest".

Now if you want to discuss the transfer of these items outside the community. Or the deriving of profit from those sales, that is a different conversation.

4) The sale of cultural items is yet another matter. This depends on tribal attitudes and individual ethics. Again this is a matter for yet another conversation

I would suggest you have a cup of something warm and decaf, before you rupture a blood vessel. It is good that you are seeing things differently. But, for your own health you might want to consider raising the indignation threshold. If I lost it every time I saw a hob in a coyote hide or a hipster with headdress, I'd have stroked out before 30, LOL. There is a legitimate place for outrage over misuse of regalia or animal parts, but if every tacky Etsy or Ebay sale is going to earn your ire, you'll run out of steam before the big battles.
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Old 04-03-2014, 05:53 PM   #3
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Lol @OLChemist...I have had plenty of Coffee and Calmed Down Rofl...

I have no problems and agree with all your points and understand the Laws what you have educated me on in as you stated in your earlier points..

My problem is with "Point 4"....Believe me I do understand that animals do die for Native Arts..Regalia..Ceremonies and there are Spiritual Implications to the use of many of the items as you stated..Which I can totally understand and Respect why the use of animals etc and have seen pics of Animal Head dresses being worn and there was nothing but magnificence and totally different meaning by the picture you can clearly see and feel the difference whilst gazing upon it......And yes..I am not Native American Indian..and Yes I do babble on here etc lol...But I Do Look, Listen..and Try To Learn what I see on people's Posts about many NDN thing, even though I do not Comment etc..I am Learning and Respecting and Understandingany things what is posted by reading them and their conversations...which may probably surprise many as they may think I just Babble away about anything and everything Loool...I enjoy reading many NDN things and topics on here, and am trying to not only learn but to fully understand that learning also.

But to be honest I was shocked..Yes ..I have seen and heard of this before regarding the sale of Culteral Items and Animals..from Ebay..To Private Sale Sadly...But this Site was Nothing I have ever seen before...So many Cultural and Spiritual Things...but it was the "Wolf Full Body on that Man Pic that Set My Fire/Anger Off ..There Was Nothing Cultural Or Spiritual..Ceremonial about that Picture At All...It Just made me Think and Feel So Much Sadness For the "Wolf"...I know it sound madness but to me "The Wolf" was shown no dignity or respect...I just See and Sense Sadness from the Wolf in that picture when I looked upon it...Maybe that is only me who see's and feels that way..I dunno..Maybe it is the Memory of my Grandfathee's Words and Teachings about Animals ...Yes he did wear animal skins, even when hunting he wore a full deer skin..and even wore the head..He also use to grind their bones and use other body parts for ceremonies and medicines as we had no doctors etc and do animal ceremonies for spiritual purposes I faintly remember as being so young at the time...but I do remember his teachings of Respecting and Showing and Giving Dignity to All Animals in Life and Death esp if they were killed for spiritual, healing, ceremonies and even food and clothing ..he would say a little blessing..not a normal standard church type blessing ..it was to the animal itself in his special words...So maybe that is why I Raged so much??? ...And Yes....Subject you mentioned in No.4 is for Another Day...As I have Ranted Enough Today...hahahahahahaha..
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Old 04-03-2014, 07:19 PM   #4
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Again, there are several dimensions to your response. And I may be misunderstanding your intent.

1) I can control my own ethical parameters. I can make culturally informed decisions about making and transferring cultural items. But, I can't control what other artists do. There are always folks who'd sell their own mothers and kids for a buck. They're going to do, what they're going to do. And they may well be doing it within the letter of the law.

Some tribes can and do sanction members. I can certainly boycott businesses that I think are unethical. But there isn't some pan-Indian law enforcement group that can make people toe the line.

Regulating trade in cultural patrimony is not an easy matter. In the US there are several, ill-defined (at least to a layman) areas that are off-limits. There are rules about digging up artifacts. But there isn't agreement between tribes or under US law. (Even as I write this, there is a FBI seizure of a large collection of Native artifacts taking place. In all likelihood, the ownership will be litigated for years.) And the rules have changed drastically in the past decades.

Outside the US, all bets are off. See the sale of dozens of sacred Hopi items in two recent Paris auctions. The Hopi, the US and the UN were unable to stop the sale, which was legal under French law.

2) Having not seen the stuff in question, there is a significant possibility that the products being sold have as much to do with a specific Native culture as a Taco Bell breakfast waffle/taco does with traditional Sonoran cuisine. There is an entire school of decor and clothing items (I refuse to call them art) which is best characterized as Crop Circle Tribe regalia. The stuff seems vaguely Indian, if your only experience with Indians is F-Troop reruns. Lots of fur, bone and claw and not much reality. More Fred Flinstone than anything else.

This stuff isn't legitimate cultural items.
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Old 04-03-2014, 09:25 PM   #5
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You do not have to worry @OLChemist about misunderstanding me..As it is "Common Thing" when it comes to me lol.

You always seem to understand what I am trying to say..but you write it in the right way and much better than me..as I tend to get lost in my emotions and feeling and end up straying of the path I am going down lol. And I always learn many new things with your responses too.

Yes it is sad and wrong what does go on..and I am glad there are things put place to try to deter these things from happening...And Yes..we can only Boycott such places/businesses/people,..And we cannot stop people/businesses from doing this sadly..And it must be very hard to control something like this in the USA and as you say Outside USA All Bets Are Off..

I was very interested in the information you gave about the (CDIB) aswell confirming Native Made...as too often we see many things as "Authentic" where in fact it is not..and I am glad there are Hefty Fines for those who abuse it.

Finally lol...I appologise for any confusion of my intent, as basically to put it simply in a nutshell...It just Sickens Me and Makes me Sooo Angry..to see people who Abuse your Heritage and Animals and in fact Any People's Heritage ..Call it Authentic!!..Kill Magnificent Animals not for Regalia,..Spiritual, Ceremonial etc Purposes..But Purely for "Money" and "Greed"...and Advertise The Fact...Now Why could I have Not Said That In The First Place...Instead of letting my emotions Run Wild Rofl....And I Am Luvin Your "Fred Flinstone Description " lol.
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Old 04-04-2014, 02:04 AM   #6
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Jenniebee-go back to etsy, and report those shops. They have to have proof the sellers are who they say they are.

I despise etsy, but not for this reason. They have no morals and are nothing but a bunch of hipster Yankees trying to make a buck. I used to sell there, and have had experience with them. Familiarity breeds contempt, as they say. Anyhow, I would say send me the links and I would report them, but I was a bad girl once, called them out loud and clear on their hypocrisy, and I am now forever banned from selling or buying on the site. I'm actually kinda proud of that. LOL!
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Old 04-04-2014, 06:52 AM   #7
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Originally Posted by subeeds View Post
Jenniebee-go back to etsy, and report those shops. They have to have proof the sellers are who they say they are.

I despise etsy, but not for this reason. They have no morals and are nothing but a bunch of hipster Yankees trying to make a buck. I used to sell there, and have had experience with them. Familiarity breeds contempt, as they say. Anyhow, I would say send me the links and I would report them, but I was a bad girl once, called them out loud and clear on their hypocrisy, and I am now forever banned from selling or buying on the site. I'm actually kinda proud of that. LOL!
Hi ya "Bad Girl"[email protected]subeeds lol....I will report them, as I feel the more people do and act will help in the end or at least bring some bad attention to them...Fair enough it may not stop them..but it will not be good advertising either...And Yes...You shpuld be Proud Of Yourself for doing something about what you felt was Wrong ..and acting on it..:)
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Old 04-04-2014, 03:39 PM   #8
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I have made my complaints and opinion known of what I think of Etsy...via email etc....And I was rather Proud of myself due to there was..No letting my emotions and feelings get the better of me or Babblings lol..It was Sharp and To The Point..

Thanks to @OLChemist pointing out about the CDIB Authentication Information and Other Laws she also pointed out...I had information I could Both Use and Quote to them, after I researched and read all about them fully..about what they are how they work..purpose, gaining/applying them etc all of which I found very intetesting and knowledgeable...I have always..agreed with the Term.."Knowledge Can Be As Powerful As Any Weapon If Weilded Correctly".

Also I must state after going back and having a better look even though it left a foul taste in my mouth ...."There are Genuine CDIB Sellers on there, But they are Sadly Far And Few Between...But I do feel better in the fact that I voiced my opinion and thoughts...Even though My Voice is Only Small...It Is Still A Voice Speaking Out..
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Old 04-14-2014, 12:51 AM   #9
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You are talking about these ?
View Medium Headdress by THEWORLDOFFEATHERS on Etsy

Daaang , they're not even made in the US !
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Old 04-14-2014, 11:31 AM   #10
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You are talking about these ?
View Medium Headdress by THEWORLDOFFEATHERS on Etsy

Daaang , they're not even made in the US !
These are some of many but not what I was on about but as ypu can see there are loads on there:(....But I was disgusted at the Wolf..Coyete etc Headresses....I know and understand that Yes...animals are killed for Ceremonies etc....and I totally understand and accept that..even in my own heritage this was done...But there was NOTHING..Ceremoial about those Wolf..Coyete Headresses..Only Greed ...And one of the Coyete Full Headress did NOT even look like a Coyete:(...I had to look Twice as I thought it was "A Croc Head With Fur" as the Poor Coyete's Head was Soooo Badly Made..they Obviously tried to correct it...By stretching it Somehow? And Adding More Teeth:((( And Do Not even get me started about The Wolf Head and Full Wolf Skin:(( The Beautiful Animals were Killed..Butchered..And Given No Dignity or Respect By FAKE..People.. .Pretending to be Skilled NDN Craftsman making AUTHENTIC NDN Headdresses Etc...Soley for Money and Selling them to Play Dress Up Wannabe NDN's ....I do not know how to do the links thingy to show you the Sickening Pics...but if you type...Headressess..then animal.. wolf etc they Pop Up eventually sadly to say and I was just looking for a handmade headress for wedding I have to dance at..Not even a NDN headdress.. I was just searching for some ideas for a custom handmade head dresses and Masquerade Mask Type designs and thats when I saw all the So Called NDN headresses, that is Why it shocked me so much.

Sorry for @wardancer for Ranting ....But it makes me soooo angry...when I see Animals and Heritages abused in the most sickening and disrespectful of ways..

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Old 04-14-2014, 06:15 PM   #11
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ssshhhheee , I was think about orderen 1 fer muh horse ! Dress 'em up real purdy !
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I believe blood quantums are the governments way to breed us out of existance !


They say blood is thicker than water ! Now maple syrup is thicker than blood , so are pancakes more important than family ?

There are "Elders" and there are "Olders". Being the second one doesn't make the first one true !

Somebody is out there somewhere, thinking of you and the impact you made in their life.
It's not me....I think you're an idiot !





There's a chance you might not like me ,

but there's a bigger

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Old 04-15-2014, 05:03 PM   #12
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Just found out the 'made in china' stickers are made in the U.S.A

LOL
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When you are dead you don't know that you are dead. It is difficult only for the others. It is the same when you are stupid.

"Show me somethin"
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