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Old 06-28-2004, 02:39 AM   #1
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Question Fahrenheit 9/11

Who has seen this??? I'm not sure I want to watch this...even though our President did commit some wrong, he shouldn't have to be portrayed in this matter.....I mean, like it or not, he's still our President.....I guess I harbor loyalty because I am a Marine....but part of me, hidden, still would like to layeth the Smackdown!!!! LOL......

oh and another thing, terrorists can use this to their advantage......one of their methods of warfare is the media...as I'm sure you've all seen the beheadings and now a Marine, one of my brothers, is being held hostage and will possibly be decapitated.....this affects our lives and that's how they operate....anything to disrupt the thinking of the populace...to create disorder, which I believe is happening now....they know the country is divided about the war in Iraq, so they're going to use every means necessary to exploit that......and personally michael moore just provided them more ammo.......
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Old 06-28-2004, 10:18 AM   #2
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I have not seen the movie yet. However from "Bowling for Columbine," I know that he's mastered the art of spin, and I am very skeptica of his veracity.l Thoughout the Columbine movie, he has cut and pasted images, interviews, speeches, staged "interviews", ad nauseum together to support his goals. If any history student was to do any of the things he has done, he would fail. Any respectable scholar would most likely lose their position. The prof who created "evidence" to support his argument that firearms were NOT important to American culture prior to the Civil War is one example of the defrocking that would take place if someone did as Moore has done.

From the one commercial I've seen, the one condemning Bush for going on vacation, I don't believe Moore understands reality. Unlike most people who go on vacation and do not allow work to follow them, Bush and other cabinet leaders do not have that pleasure. If the govenment can send three satelite communications vans, armed security, etc for a CIA director to go on a weekend father and son camping trip, know they are going to send a whole lot more to the president's ranch. After all Camp David, the presidential retreat, is fully eqipped as a secondary white house. And let's not forget the equipment aboard Air Force One ( or it's backup/ vice-presidential Air Force Two), making it a flying situation room.

As for Moore and the media providing fuel to the insurrgents fire, that is an understatement. The terrorists know, especially after Madrid, that to influence public opinion in a democracy, they need to instill as much terror as possible to as many people as possible. The easiest method is to use the media: print, television, and especially internet. The reporting from Khe Song during the Vietnam War is an example of how the media's influence over people. A Lt.Col. at Khe Song complained that the media, in their comparison to Dien Bein Phu (sp), always used as their backdrop a plane that was hit on the first day of the siege. Throughout their reporting, this plane was seen and the Marine's wife said that that image made it worse for her knowing that planes were being destroyed daily when they weren't.

Ok I ranted enough.
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Old 06-28-2004, 10:33 AM   #3
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Moore might go over the line some in his two movies, but....

In all the history and political science classes I took in college and graduate school, the professors always had a slant to thier lectures. And they used certain pieces of history to help thier arguement. Some did it to try and get a rise out of students, some did it to match thier philosphy.

But I don't think you can argue that historians don't slant things their way.

Statistics was invented to help support someone's cause.

And history is always written by the winner.

Regardless of whether you agree with the conculsions Moore presents, I appreciate him raising the questions.
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Old 06-28-2004, 10:48 AM   #4
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Using bits and pieces is one thing, but editing passages from speeches, fabricating interviews, taking information out of context to support your argument is another. While I am extremly grateful to live in a country with freedom of the press and believe it is one of our greatest strengths, as stated by communists in the 20th. century it is also our greatest weakness. Yes their is always an agenda, but when you create your supports,that is a problem.

Again I have not seen 9/11 yet, I plan on seeing it after Spidey 2. However after "Columbine" I am very skeptical of Moore's work.

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Old 06-28-2004, 11:37 AM   #5
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Ignorance Is A Voluntary Misfortune...

So it's ok for the leader fo the country to cut and paste to accomodate his agenda? Oh please.

I applaud Michael Moore for "going there" n having the gonads to expose the hypocracies.

I'll say it once and I'll say it again - G Dubbz is a publicly funded terrorist. It's only right that his facist a$$ is called out.
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Old 06-28-2004, 12:12 PM   #6
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Loyalty?

The guy LOST the election! He shouldnt even be president!

Have you been around the past few years.

GW is gonna run this country into the ground. But he will make money on the deal. Any decision he makes will be for HIS OWN profit.

He is a waste and because of him we are a perfect target.

Sayonara everyone.
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Old 06-28-2004, 12:31 PM   #7
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Woohoo JIBBS!!! I agree that the Bush agenda is for no one but himself. I also love Michael Moore. People bash political figures all the time. The GOP tore Clinton up over the Lewinsky "scandal" which was totally ignorant using OUR tax money over a moral issue that numerous presidents before had done. They just didn't get caught or have whiney baby congressmen trying to get them out of office on ANYTHING they could find.
I would much rather have my President do something stupid like having an affair. At least he's not making a mockery of our relations with other countries. It is scary to know we have NO backing from anyone anymore.
This movie isn't a bunch of lies. People have a hard time accepting the truth. Just as bowling for Columbine was truth. The truth hurts when it's not sugar coated. It's a bitter pill at times to swallow and people will tear down someone to keep from having to admit they're wrong. 9/11 is truth, and when people accept it, then maybe we as a country can figure out what needs to be done to get back on the right path with our former allies and other countries as well.
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Old 06-28-2004, 12:52 PM   #8
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Like I said, Like it or not....He's still our president....Understandably I can see how everyone feels about some of the policies he's done, but don't you find it hypocritical when he does something good and everyone is like "yeah, way to go, I support my president.." then to turn around when something happens we don't like and say stuff like "get him out, impeach the president" or stage all these protests....

Yeah I have my reservations about things, but not once after 9/11 when he decided to go after terrorists did my support waver.....Yes, it should have been done long ago, with the many bombings and terrorists threats, but at least he's doing something now.....Yeah, he screwed up with the invasion of Iraq by not getting all essential information prior to March 21, 2003....yes, he should have garnered for more support from the U.N., but would have anything been accomplished??? If you really think about it, Iraq is now a better country than just 2 years ago.....yes, there are bombings still going on and hostage taking, the killing of innocent civilians....but have you seen the other side??? Have you seen the progress that has been done??? Have you seen the new schools, the new police stations (even though they get blown up on a daily basis), the humanitarian efforts that are going on in different parts of the country???? Do you actually think Fallujah is just a hotbed of unrest??? It's not, there is actually more being done everyday to better the lives of these people...Yes, you may say what about our lives??? We have needs too, yes we do, but look at them, these people need it more.....the majority of us have so much that we do not realize it, imagine if our situations were reversed.....I know the media took polls on our popularity there, but did they ask the entire country?? No, they didn't....believe it or not, but they do want us there...don't believe everything you hear on the news, look on the other hand....just my opinions.......
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Old 06-28-2004, 01:00 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CandaePrincess
It is scary to know we have NO backing from anyone anymore.
This movie isn't a bunch of lies. People have a hard time accepting the truth. Just as bowling for Columbine was truth. The truth hurts when it's not sugar coated. It's a bitter pill at times to swallow and people will tear down someone to keep from having to admit they're wrong. 9/11 is truth, and when people accept it, then maybe we as a country can figure out what needs to be done to get back on the right path with our former allies and other countries as well.
Uhhh, yeah, we still got backing from other countries 17 out 26 countries (NATO) backed us and deployed there troops....and now we have the "official" backing of the U.N., they just waited for the dirty work to be done......I reallt don't hink anyone said this movie was a bunch of lies, I haven't seen it, so I don't know.....and for the President using that to back his personal agenda.....don't people in general do that anyway???....think of themselves????.....no argument from me, just my opinions....
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Old 06-28-2004, 02:42 PM   #10
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My husband saw it and said it was amazing. He added that even if Moore put a spin on it, no one can refute the beast that was Florida.......
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Old 06-28-2004, 02:52 PM   #11
is lost in reality...
 
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True......Florida was a beast......
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Old 06-28-2004, 03:23 PM   #12
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[QUOTE=GJJudd]While I am extremly grateful to live in a country with freedom of the press QUOTE]

Freedom of the Press?!?! Wake up! It's TELL-A-VISION - you are told what they want you to see. Michael Moore's work is revolutionary in the fact that he brings it to you raw! He tells it how it REALLY is .. not the garbage that we are fed by means of Western propaganda.

This movie will not inspire more terrorism - your president will.

Last edited by Jibby; 06-28-2004 at 03:25 PM..
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Old 06-28-2004, 03:36 PM   #13
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[QUOTE=Jibby]
Quote:
Originally Posted by GJJudd
While I am extremly grateful to live in a country with freedom of the press QUOTE]

Freedom of the Press?!?! Wake up! It's TELL-A-VISION - you are told what they want you to see. Michael Moore's work is revolutionary in the fact that he brings it to you raw! He tells it how it REALLY is .. not the garbage that we are fed by means of Western propaganda.

This movie will not inspire more terrorism - your president will.
Jibby's comments make me want to see this movie.......
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Old 06-28-2004, 04:15 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jibby
Freedom of the Press?!?! Wake up! It's TELL-A-VISION - you are told what they want you to see. Michael Moore's work is revolutionary in the fact that he brings it to you raw! He tells it how it REALLY is .. not the garbage that we are fed by means of Western propaganda.

This movie will not inspire more terrorism - your president will.
Actually I think we both agree on something: the media tells you what they want you to know. However I think the media is more liberal than neutral. I remember listending to NPR saying how terrible everything is going, then hear from friends over there and they are dumbfounded they are about the media. Also 50Cal made the point that not see enuff coverage is going on about the humanitarian aid.

As for Moore, again I am very skeptical about him. When he did "Columbine" he cut and pasted alot of things that did not go together to make his arguments. In my opinion that is making up supports for your arguments and wrong.

As for media not increasing terrorism, you are correct; they are being used as a tool to increase terror to the public. Terrorists do not care who they attack, how they attack, etc; they only care about creating terror amongst a population that will submit to their will because of their actions. MAdrid is a perfect example of a terrorist cell acheiving their goal, the changing of a government, through the use of indiscriment violence. And they will use any means necessary to spread that terror to as large a population as possible. The use of videotapes, internet, etc are examples of the media being used by terrorists to acheive their goals.

Again these are my opinions. One last note, if you haven't seen the movie yet or plan to see it again, look at the little details in the background, ie clocks, newpaper entries, etc. Also try doing google searches or checking newpaper archives on the material Moore presents, you may be surprises that he is not giving you the raw information, but his own spin on things. Always check sources!
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Old 06-28-2004, 04:46 PM   #15
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[Freedom of the Press?!?! Wake up! It's TELL-A-VISION - you are told what they want you to see.
This movie will not inspire more terrorism - your president will.[/QUOTE]
LOL....true, like I said and apparently Jibby and I have some agreement on this...they only want oyu to see what you want to see......which is maybe why they're swayed to believe that what they see is right, LOOK beneath it people.....there's much more to this than watching a movie or believing the ideals of someone who does not fully support his facts....in the raw???? c'mon now, even he got edited...LOL.....


as for the president inspring terrorism.....LOL......so I take it everyone of our past Presidents inspired it right? I mean, look back, every presidential tenure had something happen.....no one is immune to terrorists.....like GJJUdd said, they (terrorists) will use any means necessary to get what they want...and right now that's to spread their version of Islam....they don't care what race you are, who your family is, where you live, how much money you got.....shyt...none of that matters to them....they think the western societies are evil because we have liberties, these terrorists, believe it or not, have the same liberties but they refuse to let their fellow countrymen have this...why??? because it's about money and power...they just think they're better than you or me....and they will do anything to prove that......all I've come to realize is that terrorism inspires terrorism, and yeah sure, a movie might not, but our divideness will....and that's what this movie inspires......
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Old 06-28-2004, 05:26 PM   #16
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I guess you can't really have an opinion about the movie...until you see it yourself. If a documentary can change your mind that easily on issues.....it doesn't sound like you're very sound in your convictions. I wouldn't base my political views on one movie, neither would I judge a president by one error. To err is to be human. To err time and time again is a little too costly and dangerous in that type of political office.
But really....it's a matter of opinion and everyone has their own. You can either let it get to you....or you can do something about it and get involved with your political parties.
Until we as a people get involved...it won't matter anyways. Either way more and more native programs get cut and treaties broken...and whoever says..."who pays attention to treaties?", just remember how much older the constitution is and think about that. Treaties are now called federal laws and programs.
OKAY THAT WAS RANDOM RAMBLING!!! *L*
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Old 06-28-2004, 05:29 PM   #17
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Hmm.. I don't like the guy cuz he's so :Crazy and :50: but I wonder if he would be up to making a documentary about the Liberals in Canada :D. I'd love to see Chretien and Martin ripped to pieces. :42:
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Old 06-29-2004, 11:09 AM   #18
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If you really think about it, Iraq is now a better country than just 2 years ago
Lest we forget the US imposed sanctions that were killing thousands of Iraqi children, seniors, women and men for decades :NoNo No food and no medicine = DEATH. Has it ever occured to you that the US was responsible for as much destruction to that country and it's citizens as the former crackhead leader??

And we do not even have to bring up the treatment at Abu Ghirab prison. I mean, if being humilated and tortured at the hands of US soldiers makes Iraq a better country .. then the lives lost (of both Americans and Iraqis) was worth it, huh? This is simply a case of the pot calling the kettle black.

I encourage everyone to go and see this movie.
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Old 06-29-2004, 11:29 AM   #19
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Old 06-29-2004, 12:55 PM   #20
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Lest we forget the US imposed sanctions that were killing thousands of Iraqi children, seniors, women and men for decades :NoNo No food and no medicine = DEATH. Has it ever occured to you that the US was responsible for as much destruction to that country and it's citizens as the former crackhead leader??

And we do not even have to bring up the treatment at Abu Ghirab prison. I mean, if being humilated and tortured at the hands of US soldiers makes Iraq a better country .. then the lives lost (of both Americans and Iraqis) was worth it, huh? This is simply a case of the pot calling the kettle black.

I encourage everyone to go and see this movie.
Typical, so you're gonna hold the US responsible for the actions of a few??? These people knew better....I did my share of guard duty, handling POWs and processing them...it's no picnic, if you honestly think that these people give in so willingly, you're wrong.....so, what you're saying is that its okay for the Iraqi's (insurgents and terrorists) to put up roadside bombs, snipers and kidnap???....so you would be willing to stand aside and allow these to happen just because some food didn't get delivered a long time ago???? Remember also, that these were "sanctions" imposed by a different president who also provided aid by giving them weapons to protect themselves against Iran.......I think that if you were there, you would be angry about that as well......and yes these people were freakin idiots to do something like that....I voiced my anger at their stupidity as well....and please enlightened me on the destruction to that country and its citizens that you proclaim....apparently you still do not realize it, but war is an ugly thing....and things happen.....I know I've been thru 2 of them myself......sometimes it goes beyond our control......we have our bad apples as well...if you would like an example, let me know........so you would hold the US responsible for not giving them food and medicine....ok, what about Mogadishu, Somalia??? We went to provide humaitarian aid to this country, and how did they returned the favor??? They killed 19 Rangers and Delta on their streets, only because they tried to get rid of their "crackhead" leader.....now just how are we suppose to give aid when we get attacked and killed??? Because the US didn't respond to this, the terrorists took it upon themselves to attack more, World Trade Center (early 90's), Khobar Towers, USS Cole (which by the way, attacking a US ship is an act of war and we did nothing) and many others......so please enightened me, how do we hold responsibilty???
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