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Old 10-14-2004, 11:28 AM   #41
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CP, if you reallly look at what I was saying, then I wasn't being negative. I was trying to let you know that while almost everything you have said is valid and true, it is difficult to see all of that as some people may just look at what you have said as Native men bashing. I did not believe that for one second. As for getting defensive, you would have to call me a lot worse names to have that effect on me. Remember what I said I did for a living, I have been called names you probably haven't even heard. I don't believe all the of people in prison are losers, some have made terrible mistakes. CP, I know you didn't say that. Anyway, as I was saying, I believe most of what you said and you did phrase it eloquently, I just think that if you say really positive things but put someting that is negative with it some may choose to focus only on the negative. Otherwise, it would be a great speech to use on a National conference for Aboriginal, First Nation, Indians regardless of gender.
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Old 10-14-2004, 12:35 PM   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by badmaninc
CP, if you reallly look at what I was saying, then I wasn't being negative. I was trying to let you know that while almost everything you have said is valid and true, it is difficult to see all of that as some people may just look at what you have said as Native men bashing. I did not believe that for one second. As for getting defensive, you would have to call me a lot worse names to have that effect on me. Remember what I said I did for a living, I have been called names you probably haven't even heard. I don't believe all the of people in prison are losers, some have made terrible mistakes. CP, I know you didn't say that. Anyway, as I was saying, I believe most of what you said and you did phrase it eloquently, I just think that if you say really positive things but put someting that is negative with it some may choose to focus only on the negative. Otherwise, it would be a great speech to use on a National conference for Aboriginal, First Nation, Indians regardless of gender.
man..who would have thought that someone would try and rag on someone for posting encouraging words about/for ndn women??...especially on a thread regarding ndn women....i've seen plenty of posts where ndn men were given their respect...
badmaninc, you turned a positive thread into a thread about yourself and wut u do and don't do in life...and hey props to you for leading a good life...but again...this was about ndn women...sometimes...we need to be reminded of OUR worth...because i don't know about anyone else, but i don't hear it all the time...which wuz the point...a lot of us can relate to her post...she wasn't slamming anyone, nor wuz she bein negative...i say its a great speech for promoting a sense in pride and self worth for ndn women...candae ur my hero!!
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Old 10-14-2004, 04:48 PM   #43
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Originally Posted by badmaninc
CP, if you reallly look at what I was saying, then I wasn't being negative. I was trying to let you know that while almost everything you have said is valid and true, it is difficult to see all of that as some people may just look at what you have said as Native men bashing. I did not believe that for one second. As for getting defensive, you would have to call me a lot worse names to have that effect on me. Remember what I said I did for a living, I have been called names you probably haven't even heard. I don't believe all the of people in prison are losers, some have made terrible mistakes. CP, I know you didn't say that. Anyway, as I was saying, I believe most of what you said and you did phrase it eloquently, I just think that if you say really positive things but put someting that is negative with it some may choose to focus only on the negative. Otherwise, it would be a great speech to use on a National conference for Aboriginal, First Nation, Indians regardless of gender.
Ok.. now what would you have said to her if she had phrased it in the "positive" sense...


Like ......how the strong native women were there to take care of their homes and family while the native man was able to get his education and travel to the big city. Get his career going so he can get paid underscale wages. So he can take those wages and spread it out as far as it can with his family that have little or no income. And how that native woman does not object to her man providing for her and their family but both of their other family members because she knows the importantance of the extended family and thinks what they receive comes from the creator to bless them and others.

She supports her man when they don't have the bank account that the prosperous co workers of her husband has.

She makes him feel good about himself when he returns home, by not burdening him with all the trivial matters she handled on her own in his absence, such as school, finiancial matters, while still being active in her community. Helping out with all the organizing and cooking at wakes, ceremonies and community events.

When he sees this strong woman doing all she does he is thankful that she is strong and capable of taking many burdens off of his shoulders. He thanks the creator that she is such a gift in his life because he knows without her.... he could not be who he is. She is his biggest supporter, encourager and inspiration. He wants to fulfill his role as a strong native man because of her.


Now is that positive enough for you? ;)
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Old 10-14-2004, 05:32 PM   #44
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Indian men, Indian women, white women

To those of you who have repsonded to this post. I don't think that I was raggin' slaggin' or otherwise putting people down. I was trying to state that when you promote a point of view, you will be able to spread that message if you do so without speaking negative. As far as turning this thread and making it about me, I said that I can only speak from my own personal experience. I don't have the right to speak from anybody else's perspective. I do believe Indian, First Nation, Aboriginal, Native, Native American women are the very backbone of our society. I wasn't trying to turn this into any kind of bashing thing or complaining. I just believe that people need to be balanced when they talk or write. I wasn't offended or defensive or trying to argue that Indian men would be fine without the women in our lives.
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Old 10-14-2004, 10:42 PM   #45
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I just believe that people need to be balanced when they talk or write.
Really ironic that you should say that when you, yourself have an imbalanced view of what this thread or these posts were saying.


(oh and Washakie Witch before you say I have bashed and name called..... I said IRONIC not moronic... butttt... :Thinking) <-------- just a little humor..... carry on people...:rofl2:
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Old 10-15-2004, 01:43 AM   #46
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CP man that was good, EXACTLY what i was trying to infer by posting it!ayye jk ~ceeyem
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Old 10-15-2004, 01:43 PM   #47
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CP man that was good, EXACTLY what i was trying to infer by posting it!ayye jk ~ceeyem
weblaha'n! :)
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Old 10-15-2004, 02:19 PM   #48
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I have to say CP is pretty smart- though a few have said that her remarks were intense that is okay, sometimes it takes a dose to get the point across..anyway..good words of encouragement CandaeP. We are glad that you are a friend and a strong, proud, native woman.
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Old 10-15-2004, 06:57 PM   #49
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The White girl thang.....again just another flavor

Let's look at this thru a "golden agers eyes"



Back in the 70's I saw this happen with Black men....White girls couldn't contain them selvels...they all wanted to get on their knees to a brother to prove how liberal they were....they did this in the 80-90's with the Rastas too.

But we also have to look at the men that are attracted to these types of women. Some do have issues, I've seen it with Black men who think they haven't arrived until the have them a white girl. I guess it's some sort of pysho throw back of gettin 'the masa's women'. Instead of dealing with their issues of no self worth, they degredate their women to justify their actions.

What concerns me is this guy puttin down us to this female. So in my opinion, he's a wanttabe in the other direction. He's not even worth the hassel, let her have him. He's obviously doesn't want to be who he is.


cc

W

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Old 10-15-2004, 09:30 PM   #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by comchocldy
Let's look at this thru a "golden agers eyes"



Back in the 70's I saw this happen with Black men....White girls couldn't contain them selvels...they all wanted to get on their knees to a brother to prove how liberal they were....they did this in the 80-90's with the Rastas too.

But we also have to look at the men that are attracted to these types of women. Some do have issues, I've seen it with Black men who think they haven't arrived until the have them a white girl. I guess it's some sort of pysho throw back of gettin 'the masa's women'. Instead of dealing with their issues of no self worth, they degredate their women to justify their actions.

What concerns me is this guy puttin down us to this female. So in my opinion, he's a wanttabe in the other direction. He's not even worth the hassel, let her have him. He's obviously doesn't want to be who he is.

Now that was cool. That sums up everything nicely.

cc

W
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Old 10-15-2004, 09:40 PM   #51
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I think too many people underestimate Native woman , for so Long they have labbled us as weak and needy (talking bout the letter originally posted) But if this woman would have done her research she would know that throughout history Native women have always been strong and in many tribes the woman was the harder worker and was sought after when it came to council decisions, so her interpretation of us is just wicked and mean. I wonder what her Husband thinks of her views about his own people and if he agrees than maybe it is him that truly has the problem. we Native woman have to defend ourselves cause no one else will with the exception of a few native men ( referring to an earlier post). theres alot of women out there who are not native that have the idea if they marry a native man they can fix them and the rest of us.. so if this woman wants to look at our outspokeness as a sign of weakness let her but i would really hate to be her and be at her inlaws family gatherings, see how far she gets with that view.. Appluade to all the woman here who are confidant in themselves and know who they are and not affected by such words. the same goes for Native men... There alot of good ones out there that love thier native women.. In any relationship it takes 2 to make it work.. male and female are dependent on each other.
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Old 10-15-2004, 09:54 PM   #52
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badmaninc...just wondering if your wife is white?
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Old 10-16-2004, 02:38 AM   #53
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Cool Indian men, Indian women, white women

Not that I think it is relevant or anything, she is an Aboriginal woman. I like what comchocldy said about letting the guy go and marry the woman. If you are going to have negativity for somebody save it for him. Besides what we believe doesn't matter, he is going to do or not do what is best for him. So us arguing about everything else is kind of dumb really. I think we should all let him walk into the sunset with his woman and let it be done with.
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Old 10-16-2004, 03:33 PM   #54
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Candae Princess, you are all right in my book!:Thumbs :clap: :sunny!: :clapping:
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Old 10-16-2004, 05:24 PM   #55
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GOt this in a email...man this made me laugh, mad and even shed a lil tear lol.



This letter was written in response to an article:

Dear Editor: I'm sorry but I would like to challenge some of your Indian male readers. I am a White female who is engaged to an Indian male-good-looking, educated and loving. I just don't understand a lot of Indian female's attitudes about our relationship. My man decided he wanted me because the pickings amongst Indian women were slim to none. As he said they were too fat, too loud, too mean, too argumentative, too needy, too materialistic or carrying too much excess baggage.

Before I became engaged, whenever I went out I was constantly approached by Indian men, willing to wine and dine me and give me the world. If Indian women are so up in arms about us being with their men, why don't they look at themselves and make some changes. I am tired of the dirty looks I get and snide remarks when we're out in public.

I would like to hear from some Indian men about why we are so appealing and coveted by them. Bryant Gumbel just left his wife of 26 years for one of us. Charles Barkley, Scottie Pippen, the model Tyson Beckford, Montell Williams, Quincy Jones, James Earl Jones, Harry Belafonte, Sydney Poitier, Kofi Anan, Cuba Gooding Jr., Don Cornelius, Berry Gordy, Billy Blanks, Larry Fishburne, Wesley Snipes...I could go on and on. But, right now, I'm a little angry and that is why I wrote this so hurriedly. Don't be mad with us White women because so many of your men want us. Get your acts together and learn from us and we may lead you to treat your m! en better. If I'm wrong, Indian men, let me know.

Disgusted White Girl,

Somewhere in VA



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Dear Editor: I would like to respond to the letter written by A Disgusted White Girl. Let me start by saying that I am a 28-year old Indian man. I graduated from one of the most prestigious universities in Atlanta, Georgia with a Bachelor of Arts Degree in Business Management. I have a g! ood job at a major corporation and have recently purchased a house. So, I consider myself to be among the ranks of successful Non-White men. I will not use my precious time to slander white people. I just want to set the record straight of why Indian men date white women. Back in the day, one of the biggest reasons why Indian men dated white women was because they were considered easy. The Indian girls in my neighborhood were raised traditionally. They were very strict about when they lost their virginity and who they lost it to. Because of our impatience to wait, brothers would look for someone who would give it up easy without too much hassle. So, they turned to the white girls.

Nowadays, in my opinion, a lot of Indian males date white women because they are docile and easy to control. A lot of Indian men, because of insecurities, fears, and overall weaknesses, have become intimidated by the strength of our Indian women. We are afraid that our woman will be more successful than us, make more money than us, drive nicer cars and own bigger houses. Because of this fear, many Indian men look for a more docile woman. Someone we can control.

I have talked to numerous Indian men and they continuously comment on how easy it is to control and walk over their white women. I just want to set the record straight. I want A Disgusted White Girl to know that not all successful Indian men date white women. Non-Whites like Ahmad Rashad, Denzel Washington, Michael Jordan, Morris Chestnut, Will Smith, Blair Underwood, Kenneth "Babyface" Edmonds, Samuel L. Jackson, and Chris Rock all married strong Non-White women. And, to flip the script, there are numerous white men, in and out of the spot light, who openly or secretly desire Non-White women over white women. Ted Danson, Robert DeNiro, ! and David Bowie to name a few.

I just don't want a disgusted white girl to be misinformed. Stop thinking that because you are white that you are some type of goddess. Remember, when Non-White Egyptian Queens like Hatsepshut and Nitorcris were ruling Dynasties and armies of men in Egypt, you were over in the caves of Europe eating raw meat and beating each other over the head with clubs. Read your history! It was the Non-White woman that ta! ught you how to cook and season your food. It was the Non-White woman that taught you how to raise your children. It was Non-White women who were breastfeeding and raising your babies during slavery. It is the Non-White woman that had to endure watching their fathers, husbands, and children beaten, killed, and thrown in jail.

Indian women were born with two strikes against them: being Non-White and being a woman. And, through all this, Still They Rise! It is because of the Indian women's strength, elegance, power, love and beauty that I could never date anyone except my Indian Queen. It is not just the outer beauty that captivates and draws me to them. It is not the fact that they come in all shapes, sizes, colors and shades that I love them. Their inner beauty is what I find most appealing about Indian women. Their strong spirit, loving and nurturing souls, their integrity, their ability to overcome great obstacle! s, their willingness to stand for what they believe in, and their determination to succeed and reach their highest potential while enduring great pain and suffering is why I have fallen in love with Indian women.

I honestly believe that your anger is geared more toward jealousy and envy than snotty looks. If this were not so, then why do you continuously go to tanning salons to darken your skin? If you are so proud to be white, then why don't you just be happy with your pale skin? Why do you continue to inject your lips, hips, and breasts with unnatural and dangerous substances so you can look fuller and more voluptuous? I think that your anger is really a result of you wanting to have what the Non-White woman has.

BOTTOM LINE: If I were looking for a docile woman, someone I can walk over and control, I would give you a call. But, unfortunately, I am looking for a Virtuous Woman. Someone that can be a good wife and mother to my children. Someone who can be my best friend and understands my struggles. I am looking for a soul mate and; unfortunately, you do not and CANNOT fit the bill. No offense taken, none given.



Signed,



Indian Royalty
My intent on posting this was to show that there are some native men, or it could of even be a black man who wrote this so lets just say colored men, who do respect colored women. Not saying that there is hardly any.Im not sure who wrote it but it really was touching to read it.
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Old 02-04-2005, 10:00 PM   #56
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Sadly its arrogant people like the `Disgusted White Girl` that gives white women a bad name.
QUOTE: " he wanted me because the pickings amongst Indian women were slim to none. As he said they were argumentative, too needy, too materialistic or carrying too much excess baggage." .... If the `Disgusted White Girl` things this attitude is the attitude of a caring man (whatever race), then i think its she who needs to take a look at herself and her own morals. "Too argumentative, too needy" ??? everyone is argumentative to some degree or we wouldnt have our own minds and opinions, we are all needy in the way that we have to depend upon eachother in a good relationship to some extent to make it work. Reliability is a very inportaint part of a good relationship. Quote: "too fat, too loud" ... Whoever wrote this seems to be very arrogant and jugemental of indian women. It doesnt matter how big or small, short or tall people are.. its who you are that makes the difference to how appealing as a person you are. And by all seems of things, this particular white girl is too ignorant to understand this. Its not indian women at fault its her if she thinks a man with that attidude is worth being engaged to.
Anyone who would be willing to `use` a white woman.. or any woman in that case because they think she is `easy` cannot respect theirselves much either. Especially if they are with her because she is `easier to control` This is not a message that applies to any particular race, this applies to everyone. Everyone should have their own mind on what they choose to do, and if they choose to disrespect themselves or the opposite sex then they only have themselves to blame.
It doesnt matter what colour your skin is, or what race / races you are.. nobody is better than anyone else, and people should choose who they want to be with because they love and respect that person. If i ever find the right person for me i certainly wont be judging it on what race they are or the colour of their skin. I certainly hope it will be because they are a good free spirited person who cas compassion and cares about the things that really matter. Its attitudes like the `Disgusted White Girl` that builds hatred and contempt in the world. If everyone could respect eachother, then we wouldnt need to struggle so much just to try and keep any peace. It is easier for the whites because they dont have to put up with prejudices etc like other races have to, and white men and women in history have caused much hatred and greed in the world i know, and done many, many wrongs incluing stealing land claiming what does not belong to them or even things that shouldnt belong to anyone. But should be respected, not taken, used or distroyed.. just as most of this modern society seems to use eachother. People will go at any lengths just to make money whatever the cost, .. to have and own everything and abuse it for what money they can make even if it does mean destroying and disregarding everything around them. The same goes for how we treat people.. whether we respect people and live in harmony or use people and their good nature for what we can get out of them for selfish reasons only.
I am a white woman, but it does not make me proud to be white when i see the attitudes of many white men and women. I most certainly do not share their opinions, and i do not feel proud of my herritage when i know what pain and suffering it has caused many people in many places. And how many whites snatched things that didnt belong to them.
Not all whites are bad or `easy` or anything else for that matter. As I said before whatever colour skin we have or whatever race, its who we are inside... do we have a peaceful spirit or a bad one.

From a peaceful little white lady.
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Old 02-04-2005, 10:28 PM   #57
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im sure that was really good i liked the first paragraph. lol just jokes.. thanks for your insight.*thumbs up*
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Old 02-05-2005, 11:01 AM   #58
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There is a lot in insights in these posts, but isn't it possible that people of various colors can fall in love without a hidden agenda?

I have indian friends and married into an indian family, but I'm white. I believe the one and only comment ever made about my skin color was that my husband "never thought he'd marry a white girl."

Now my skin color is only the topic of discussion when I get a sunburn. I can't help who I was born to, but I can help my attitude. Too many white people are so caught up in the rat race of America, they get too busy to see how other races are forced to grow up in this country.

Maybe not growing up in white suburbia helped open my eyes. I was a foster kid for 7 years because my real parents beat me, starved me, or forgot about me completely. One time my mom didn't know I was gone until a police officer brought me home and said he found me walking the streets of St. Louis naked at age 3.

So I can see the strength behind native women and men because I am also struggling for a decent life and want to raise my children in a good home. I certainly wouldn't want anyone to think I married my husband simply because of his skin color, that's untrue. We just found each other.

I'm sure I'll get some negative feedback, but I'm just talking about my personal experience.
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Old 02-06-2005, 11:25 AM   #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jesseq
There is a lot in insights in these posts, but isn't it possible that people of various colors can fall in love without a hidden agenda?

I have indian friends and married into an indian family, but I'm white. I believe the one and only comment ever made about my skin color was that my husband "never thought he'd marry a white girl."

Now my skin color is only the topic of discussion when I get a sunburn. I can't help who I was born to, but I can help my attitude. Too many white people are so caught up in the rat race of America, they get too busy to see how other races are forced to grow up in this country.

Maybe not growing up in white suburbia helped open my eyes. I was a foster kid for 7 years because my real parents beat me, starved me, or forgot about me completely. One time my mom didn't know I was gone until a police officer brought me home and said he found me walking the streets of St. Louis naked at age 3.

So I can see the strength behind native women and men because I am also struggling for a decent life and want to raise my children in a good home. I certainly wouldn't want anyone to think I married my husband simply because of his skin color, that's untrue. We just found each other.

I'm sure I'll get some negative feedback, but I'm just talking about my personal experience.

I agree with you, it happens.Many People of different races marry for love, in fact i know alot who would rather marry out of race do to thier own culture having arranged marriages, they feel they cannot marry somone they do not love so they marry outside thier racial boundries. We cannot always assume that just cause a white girl marrys and NdN its because they want treaty rights Or becasue an NDN man Marrys a white woman its because she was easy.

I don't condemn anyone for who they marry i think its thier own business and people shouldnt worry so much about it. I think what most people are concerned about in this thread is the Blood lines being thinned therefore feel that NdNs should stik to thier kind, which is understandable and would indeed strengthen blood lines in the hopes of coming full circle in having the NdN blood full again or keeping it full. Theres nothing wrong in either sides thinking but to condemn people for thier own personal choices is wrong. You cant judge people on the outside or by who they marry or by what they always do.
I respect both sides in doing what they feel is right but I wont agree to the ignorance displayed by those that feel they have the right to judge and be little those for making choices that are thier own, and NO I am not talking about anyone here particualr; I find this sort of ignorance displayed in everyday life by whites, browns and blacks. I think Human beings as a whole just need to worry about what they themselves do before worrying about what others do first.
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Old 02-08-2005, 03:34 PM   #60
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i don't care what ya'll say that guy was deep and right that white woman had no right to say that about us strong native american women she should get over her self and stay color coded as in she should marrie a fu)ken white man
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