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Old 10-09-2005, 12:37 AM   #1
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Question opinions needed

Well I need opinions, I am not happy at the moment and need some suggestions...here in St. Louis Missouri we do not have any tribes or tribal offices, this native community is built mainly on native folks who moved here to work for Boeing, or some other big company like that, I lived here since I was born and was able to live in both worlds not an easy job, I grew up with the beginning of the American Indian Center opened in 1974 since then the Center has closed last year due to natives and non-natives can't work side by side and if they did the Center would still be open. well we all know what happens funds missing, jealouses etc..,...anyways we have a bunch of non-native groups starting and representing the natives of St. Louis and personally I'm offended ..now monday night at Wasington University have called for a meeting and invites went out to all fractions of these groups, including myself. This lady has appointed herself and her group to represent us and she's claims she is Cherokee that her great grandmother ran off with a soldier from the Trail of Tears, now correct me if I'm wrong. This lady and her cousin think that they can pull the wool over our eyes, but to me the dates don't match with their ages LOL. Anyways any suggestions on if you were a native surrounded by non natives saying that they are the voice of your community. what you you do or say???? remember meeting is monday 10-10-05 appreciate any feedback..Aho!
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Old 10-09-2005, 01:11 AM   #2
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been noticing that that seems to be,...

primarily an american problem. in canada we have white people running native
organizations but they do not claim to have a native blood. (just look at siga and peace
hills trust co) i've heard that 'my grandmother was a cherokee princess' thingee, but i've
never heard 'my grandmother was a cree princess'.
in canada we don't have blood quantum to verify membership. we do however have
registry numbers. we also have for lack of a better term 'grades' of indians. children
with both parents with treaty rights never have to worry about losing their treaty rights.
but if say one parent does not have treaty rights then they are given a different 'grade'.
you can eventually loose your treaty rights by continually marrying outside your race or
at least your children will. i have really simplified this system, but that's it in a nutshell.
my father used to tell me about all of these things, and my buddy used to do the
registering for our band. we have the 'double mother clause', prolly changed names
but is basically. if you married someone with no treaty rights, then your children had
treaty rights but if they married someone without treaty rights then their children wouldn't
be given any treaty rights. this is probably why alot of us still look like 'indians'.
used to be that u could get 'adopted' by a band member and get treaty rights that way but
i hven't heard of it really being done. up here it's pretty hard to get walk up and say
you're an indian.
oh yeah forgot to mention that we also have a metis nation. people with one parent native
and one parent white (ususally french descendent) don't know too much about them
though.
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Old 10-09-2005, 03:43 AM   #3
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I understand how you feel. Our tribe has a lot of white men in high positions telling us how we should run our tribe and doing things that don't need to be done. Saying we need this thing because of some reason. You are in a tough situation. But if I was you I would talk to that lady and tell her that you don't need her representation. Someone needs to speak up for the natives who is a native. I feel that a non-native person only does something if it is going to benefit themselves before anyone else. They say that they are their for the natives but when it really comes down to it all that it is about is money. That is how I see the non-natives whom try to say they are on our side. I would like to hear what happens at your meeting. Remember be stand up and be the voice for your community if you don't then who will.
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Old 10-09-2005, 03:48 AM   #4
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I wonder how many natives you are talking about in the community. Also, How did these NON natives get in the center in the first place? And how were they allowed to cause so much dissension in the first place. I don't know what it is with that part of the country but you get these people all banning together and forming groups that portray to the community as a whole that this is how native life is in the world today. Case in point is the groups in Peoria area. Look at these photos. You see a fraction of what it is really like. Notice all the fur. Look at the "traditional" dancers and "royalty". How traditional are the sunglasses?
http://www.pbase.com/ms_mimi69/pow_wow&page=1

And check this whole site out. Check the names first on the who we are page. The woman in the middle with the glasses is Carol "Lakota" Eastman. She goes by the name Carol Lakota. She is of the Seven circles group. There is a link on this site to it. She is a Minister and her "church" runs their group and powwows. They also have aquired land tax free for their own purpose too. http://www.powwows.2ya.com/

This is Mid west soaring's site. Read about it. Check these photos. http://midwestsoarring.org/cpg133/th...album=2&page=6

So folks. This is a sampling of what kiowakat is dealing with. How do you do something about these people and having natives chose their own representation?

Don't mix the topics. I'm not saying all non natives are bad and should be eraticated from the face of the earth. Just let the natives choose who they want in charge of helping them.


Kiowakat.
Be calm. Be firm. Stay on topic. Bring the point back to where you want it to be. Don't be silent this will be your chance to speak out. Remember, you not only will have the old ones there with you. You have the future generations also.

Aho and aho!
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Old 10-09-2005, 08:42 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Charlie TwoShirts
I wonder how many natives you are talking about in the community. Also, How did these NON natives get in the center in the first place? And how were they allowed to cause so much dissension in the first place. I don't know what it is with that part of the country but you get these people all banning together and forming groups that portray to the community as a whole that this is how native life is in the world today. Case in point is the groups in Peoria area. Look at these photos. You see a fraction of what it is really like. Notice all the fur. Look at the "traditional" dancers and "royalty". How traditional are the sunglasses?
http://www.pbase.com/ms_mimi69/pow_wow&page=1

And check this whole site out. Check the names first on the who we are page. The woman in the middle with the glasses is Carol "Lakota" Eastman. She goes by the name Carol Lakota. She is of the Seven circles group. There is a link on this site to it. She is a Minister and her "church" runs their group and powwows. They also have aquired land tax free for their own purpose too. http://www.powwows.2ya.com/

This is Mid west soaring's site. Read about it. Check these photos. http://midwestsoarring.org/cpg133/th...album=2&page=6

So folks. This is a sampling of what kiowakat is dealing with. How do you do something about these people and having natives chose their own representation?

Don't mix the topics. I'm not saying all non natives are bad and should be eraticated from the face of the earth. Just let the natives choose who they want in charge of helping them.


Kiowakat.
Be calm. Be firm. Stay on topic. Bring the point back to where you want it to be. Don't be silent this will be your chance to speak out. Remember, you not only will have the old ones there with you. You have the future generations also.

Aho and aho!
CTS thanks for the goot post, i am also from st louis area and plan to be at the meeting.. the group that say they represent the indian community here are not good for the st louis area. Case in point i find this newspaper article saturday morning and this is on the front page . These are the people speaking in the article that want to represent st louis..

http://www.zwire.com/site/news.cfm?n...id=25271&rfi=6
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Old 10-09-2005, 09:50 AM   #6
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Dang.......... I just read the article. At the bottom of the page it has a place to leave comments. This is mine.


I just read this article and find it not only disturbing but also deceiving to the public.
First point is it gives the overall impression that this dedication was attended by Natives of the St. Louis area. That is not true. The Intertribal Connection of St. Louis is NOT comprised of Natives and is not representative of the Native population in the area. It is comprised of non natives claiming some sort of undocumented native heritage. They attend local functions and perform in the area as Natives and this could not be further from the truth. And in fact.... it takes money from the pockets of the documented Natives of the area that would have been of great value sharing their talents and knowledge.
It is also because of this group that there is no Native Indian Center here in St. Louis. They have come in here and not only caused the original center to disintegrate but left a path of turmoil and grief in it's path.
I suggest if you want true native representation in the Native community be at the meeting at Washington University this coming Monday evening at 7 pm and speak out against these people.
Thanks for your time.
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Old 10-09-2005, 10:16 AM   #7
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Why would you have a jingle dance to dedicate a "rest stop/park"??? I'm really confused right now.
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Old 10-09-2005, 11:02 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by andre
Why would you have a jingle dance to dedicate a "rest stop/park"??? I'm really confused right now.
Aho to all who are interested in my post...This group Mato and NDNKIDZ are talking about is the Thunderbird Society headquarters located in Vandalia Mo , the woman that I talk of is a branch of that group called The Eagle Lodge LMAO dang anyways they couln't find anybody to take there request, this lady gets the information from Cahokia Mounds which I have tried to tell them call me not her and they still call her also I rufuse to take "gigs" from her I don't want to give her that power and thats why the had the fake jingle dancer. now the jigle dancer is married to a boyscout leader , he threw a indian guided pow-wow for the boyscouts now he's appointed himself as MC and his wife as that jingle dancer LOL notice the mens mocs LMAO anyways I appreciate the support to go to this meeting with.
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Old 10-09-2005, 11:33 AM   #9
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Get dressed up in your finest outfit representative of your culture. Wear your finest eagle feathers. Call all your friends to do the same thing. Show up at 7:00 en masse. AND THEN ASK THEM IF THEY CAN REPRESENT YOU BETTER THAN YOU CAN REPRESENT YOURSELF!

Walking in two worlds is difficult, at best. You have shown them that you can walk in a white man's world just by your everyday life. NOW, show them why they CAN'T walk in your world.




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Why must I feel like that..why must I chase the cat?


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Old 10-09-2005, 11:42 AM   #10
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byall means kiowakat you need to go to that meeting and speak out. And take alot of brothers and sisters with you. Speaking out is totally the right thing to do. Thats what the meetings are for. I will be praying for you all.
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Old 10-09-2005, 11:43 AM   #11
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aho!
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Old 10-09-2005, 01:14 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe's Dad
Get dressed up in your finest outfit representative of your culture. Wear your finest eagle feathers. Call all your friends to do the same thing. Show up at 7:00 en masse. AND THEN ASK THEM IF THEY CAN REPRESENT YOU BETTER THAN YOU CAN REPRESENT YOURSELF!

Walking in two worlds is difficult, at best. You have shown them that you can walk in a white man's world just by your everyday life. NOW, show them why they CAN'T walk in your world.





We could not have said it any better than that!
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Old 10-09-2005, 01:24 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lapis Queen
We could not have said it any better than that!
Sorry....that was me again!
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Old 10-09-2005, 02:06 PM   #14
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wow. either you are a southern boy with an idenity crisis or you two have truly become one!!


(in case it's the latter one... awwwwwwwwwwwwww.. )
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Old 10-09-2005, 02:11 PM   #15
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I can tell you how to get rid of em, but don't know what trouble I be in for shipping you 3 or 4 hungry aligators.

The Press can be your best source if you think about it. Make sure they are there and ask how these people were chosen to represent you and speak for you.Start your own group,invite the press and in your founding statement state that you all speak English perfectly well and don't need/never authorized them to speak on your behalf.Start getting them bad publicity.
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Old 10-10-2005, 12:54 PM   #16
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I do suggest using media, but only those you know who have proven themselves to be truthful in their reporting. I do not suggest using color of skin a factor as Charlie Two Shirts suggests. Do not make this a race issue. Make this a cultural issue. You will get much further in your goal if you do not offend many.

Be indian is not the color of your skin. It is not the color of your eyes. It is not how flashy you can make your outfits. It is not where you live. It is not who your friends are. It is not the sum in your bank account. It is not how rezzy you sound. It is not bringing your kids to the powwows.
Being indian is a way of life. It is knowing your language. It is knowing your roots. It is knowing your orgin story. It is praying. It is ceremony in everything you do. It is much more than the color of your skin.

Find this woman ask her what she does culturally. Her indian credentials will not be found on a CBID card, nor for any of us who have one. Who are her mentors? What is her language? How did she get her name? What is her clan? And her childrens calns? What are their names and their namesake? What ceremonies did she participate in coming into woman hood? Ask her to tell you the story of her ancestors as passed down to her? Ask her to tell you the vision she recieved for her jingle dress? Ask her where the jingle dress orginated? What reservation and why it came to them? Ask her if she properly asked the Ojibwe people of Mille Lacs MN for permission to wear such a powerful healing dress? Ask her what healing she has brought to the people of St. Louis with her dancing? Last, but not least for humors sake.....Ask her..... Why does she wear mens moccasins???? (I'd like to know that one myself!)

I hope I didn't mix up articles but remember there IS more to being indian than the color of your skin.
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Old 10-10-2005, 12:58 PM   #17
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OOooooo And ask her this in your native language! That would be impressive! Then translate into her language! Ask your elders too. They may have the best perspective on this subject! And the best advice. But do encourage them to be apart of this. You may have to go back home and rent the tribal van and haul all your elders there! But a sight it would be to have soo much wisdom there!
Miigwetch, Miiyo
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Old 10-10-2005, 01:39 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MishkomekinaakIkwe
I do suggest using media, but only those you know who have proven themselves to be truthful in their reporting. I do not suggest using color of skin a factor as Charlie Two Shirts suggests. Do not make this a race issue. Make this a cultural issue. You will get much further in your goal if you do not offend many.

Be indian is not the color of your skin. It is not the color of your eyes. It is not how flashy you can make your outfits. It is not where you live. It is not who your friends are. It is not the sum in your bank account. It is not how rezzy you sound. It is not bringing your kids to the powwows.
Being indian is a way of life. It is knowing your language. It is knowing your roots. It is knowing your orgin story. It is praying. It is ceremony in everything you do. It is much more than the color of your skin.

Find this woman ask her what she does culturally. Her indian credentials will not be found on a CBID card, nor for any of us who have one. Who are her mentors? What is her language? How did she get her name? What is her clan? And her childrens calns? What are their names and their namesake? What ceremonies did she participate in coming into woman hood? Ask her to tell you the story of her ancestors as passed down to her? Ask her to tell you the vision she recieved for her jingle dress? Ask her where the jingle dress orginated? What reservation and why it came to them? Ask her if she properly asked the Ojibwe people of Mille Lacs MN for permission to wear such a powerful healing dress? Ask her what healing she has brought to the people of St. Louis with her dancing? Last, but not least for humors sake.....Ask her..... Why does she wear mens moccasins???? (I'd like to know that one myself!)

I hope I didn't mix up articles but remember there IS more to being indian than the color of your skin.
Who are you talking about? I'M not the one to bring up color. Go back and read! Where in my post did I mention anything like that? The topic of non natives was brought up as a problem in the opening post. I addressed that. Then you have to single me out and twist what I say and deliver a lecture? Go tell the ones that need to hear all that ( which I agree with it by the way. ) Just that some of those arguements will not help in this situation because even all Ojibwe do not agree on the orgin of jingle dress.

This is what I suggested to her. Where does this mention color, race or anything?

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Kiowakat.
Be calm. Be firm. Stay on topic. Bring the point back to where you want it to be. Don't be silent this will be your chance to speak out. Remember, you not only will have the old ones there with you. You have the future generations also.

Aho and aho!
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Old 10-10-2005, 03:12 PM   #19
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Anyways any suggestions on if you were a native surrounded by non natives saying that they are the voice of your community. what you you do or say???? remember meeting is monday 10-10-05 appreciate any feedback..Aho!
<--- Hello! Born and raised right across the river.. know EXACTLY what you are talking about! Hon, get the actual natives together and start your own group... be very vocal about this because St. Louis folks are highly territorial and if they are non native trying to represent you... you need to show them YOU are not their turf.
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Old 10-10-2005, 03:29 PM   #20
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CTS thanks for the goot post, i am also from st louis area and plan to be at the meeting.. the group that say they represent the indian community here are not good for the st louis area. Case in point i find this newspaper article saturday morning and this is on the front page . These are the people speaking in the article that want to represent st louis..

http://www.zwire.com/site/news.cfm?n...id=25271&rfi=6
OMG!! WTH????
Quote:
"As you go into this beautiful park, look at this Piasa bird. He didn’t know any better, but we had to destroy it out of great need," said Peggy Martin Bowman, an Oklahoma Cherokee elder who lives in O’Fallon, Mo.
I guess she did'nt read about the history of the bird being made up did she? No one knows really what the piasa was... or what it was really called. Hell the name Piasa was made up by the same guy who made up the story!! The only truth to that story is that Lewis and Clark discovered it painted on the bluffs when they went by travelling down the river. The original spot it was painted on was blasted away to make Grafton (wait..is that right? or is it Godfrey... dang I've been away awhile now....)
I used to play back in those caves... not that it was legal to do so, but I've been pretty far back in there. An old friend of mine was stabbed to death right where that gal is dancing... UGHh.. sorry can't keep my thoughts straight.. this is appalling!
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