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Old 10-09-2003, 02:31 AM   #1
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Question prophecies

Hi. I met this very intresting woman today and she was telling me of a new ?religion? called the Baha'i Faith. It's suppose to be a ?religion? for all races and nations. Supposedly she say's that many religions and cultures the world over have prophecies that are more or less the same in each. She told me that the Hopi prophecy of Pahana and the coming together of the four races of man are included in this ?religion?. Also the Cree prophecy of the rainbow warriors. And maybe even the Lakota prophecy of the White Buffalo Calf Woman. She said that these prophecies mirror those of other cultures such as Tibet and some tribes of Kenya. I have researched this ?religion? on the net and have come to find that over half of the members who joined the faith have left it and some even go so far as to call it a cult. Mr. Lee Brown (Salish) was at one time a member of the faith but for some reason left. I have also read that the Hopi prophecy talks of a religion starting before or around the third shaking of the world. It is suppose to unite all people in peace. But that this religion could also be a fraud and if proven so another would start but this one would be headed by the Pahana himself. I don't know what to make of this new ?religion?. Could it be the one prophecied about or a fraud? What about the Hopi prophecy itself? Is it right? Is the third shaking soon to come? Are the Rainbow Warrior's here already in the form of the Rainbow Family of Light? Or is this all nonsense? Any takers on trying to help me understand?
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Old 10-09-2003, 04:43 AM   #2
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The head of the baha'i faith is Kadaffi. You have to somehow admire a man who can tke over a country and start his own religion.
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Old 10-09-2003, 09:04 AM   #3
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i went to one of their services but fell asleep thru it so I don't really know what went on...

hehehe
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Old 10-09-2003, 02:17 PM   #4
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Bahai-ism is an offshoot of Islam, and is considered a heresy by
most moslems, as it involves prophesy beyond the Koran. It
was founded by Bahai'ullah about 1890, I think in Iran. It claims
that all religions are valid; that Buddha, Moses, Jesus, Mohammed
were all prophets of God. It is is nondogmatic--one of its tenets
is that when there is a conflict between science and a literal
reading of some "sacred book", science wins. As for Moamar
Qadaffi, I don't know what his religion is, or even if he has one.
He has always seemed to be a bit of a nut case to me.
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Old 10-09-2003, 06:03 PM   #5
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But does anyone know anything about the Hopi prophecy?
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Old 10-09-2003, 06:09 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally posted by aqua
But does anyone know anything about the Hopi prophecy?

I honestly think you should stick to your own religion lol..i'm not hating here but my inlaws are Hopis and basically you should also go find an elder and if they are willing to share with you the Hopi "prophecy" more power to you. But be respectful.

Thank you!
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Old 10-09-2003, 07:13 PM   #7
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hmmmm

well personally,being lakota & all i believe in the proph.of the white bufflo calf,but thats just me.im not a christian b/c our native ppl werent christians way back when,but believed in the creator & thats who i believe in.no offense to ne one that is a christian.:Angel:
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Old 10-09-2003, 08:41 PM   #8
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a religion for all faiths? I thought that was unitarian
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Old 10-09-2003, 11:53 PM   #9
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Quote:
I honestly think you should stick to your own religion lol..i'm not hating here but my inlaws are Hopis and basically you should also go find an elder and if they are willing to share with you the Hopi "prophecy" more power to you. But be respectful.

I think your chances of finding a Hopi elder to "share" this prophecy with an outsider are very slim. I too agree you should stick to your own religion.
(my inlaws are also Hopi)
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Old 10-10-2003, 12:15 AM   #10
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I'm sorry if I have disrespected anyone. I have been studying about it on the net and from what I read it is coming the time of Purification and the elders decided to send out speakers to talk in English of what was coming and how we can change it. I don't mean any disrespect but it seems pretty clear that this relates to people of all nations. We were meant to live in peace and harmony with Mother Earth and all people. Yet many have strayed away from the path. It is time we relearn what we have forgotten. Live simply and with respect for Mother Earth. Have love and compassion for all people even those who do not have it for you. I have come to see the truth and I'm beginning to look deep inside myself and see how lost I have become and what I can do to change for the better of all mankind. I ask all of you to look at yourselves and see if your on the right path. If your not then go deep inside and relearn. You can only start to change the world for better if you yourself change for the better. Live in peace with all your relations. Again if I have disrespected anyone in anyway I am sorry but I felt a need to share what I found. Simply read the prophecy and see for yourself. :)
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Old 10-10-2003, 12:35 AM   #11
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Wink aqua ..you're so young so..I'm gonna be nice

aqua..I think you need to "study" a bit more about everything...you're still so young...
you don't get spirituality off the internet ..I don't care how much you "study" there....you should learn that from your family & elders...
the internet is NOT the place to ask questions re:Lakota or Hopi prophecies..you might not like some of the responses you'll get & you won't get the "answer" here you're "seeking"

just my 2 cents..;)
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Old 10-10-2003, 12:57 AM   #12
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This is so very true . That is why there are no real books written by native ppl about their belifes an how they live their lifes. Go to your elders an ask them.
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Old 07-20-2008, 10:48 AM   #13
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finding answers

Hi All,

I'm sure I'm not the only non-Native American to type stuff like Hopi Prophecies into the search bar and come to this page, lol.
Curiosity is just human nature after all.

I empathise with Aqua, and while it can be frustrating to feel that a part of our Human Family is keeping 'secrets' from us, there may be a good reason why things like prophecies, spiritual knowledge etc are not freely passed around like a plate of twinkies
More than likely, alot of people coming to this thread will be interested in alot of diverse stuff, from prophecies, Earth changes, alternative history, non-Earth Life, crop circles and energy healing, to stuff like sacred geometry, overtone chanting, flint knapping and what to do when the even more than it allready has.......
We are the 'freaks' of the world, and not easily understood or accepted by people of any culture, because we don't fit into any of them. But it isn't our place to judge, or expect people to come running with open arms to welcome us as long-lost relatives (even if we remember past lives!) just because we happen to turn up on their front yard looking lost, especially if we look alot like the same people who their people helped before and got killed and robbed for their efforts.
What do we need to know that others can tell us, anyway? If they told us, would we believe it? Wouldn't we know if we were ready to know? I think that when we are ready we will know, and not from another person, but directly from whatever name we have in our culture for Great Spirit. And we can only really know through inner experience, so it's that old idea of 'go within' again. Many of us don't have a tradition, elders, family, and follow no religion, but know we are part of the Universe and we are all part of each other. I think that's enough, and if the sky goes dark and the stars go out, and the earth rolls over and the electricity fails, it really shouldn't be a cause for fear, because it has all probably happenned before, and life goes on because Spirit goes on.
So I think it's time to do stuff like chill out about all the prophecies, whatever we have come accross, and not bother people who have enough to deal with themselves without dealing with others who as far as they know, are just looking for a script to edit and and put in their new book! Sad, but that's what happens.
We know the truth anyway, if we have been paying attention to our dreams, visions, and nature in general. The state of human society makes it pretty/(ugly) obvious, in every part of the world. What do we need to know that we don't allready know? Maybe the time for looking for answers is over and it's only time for being answers.
A drowning man is not interested in prophecies, but is sorry if he never bothered to learn how to swim. I think it's more beneficial to our survival as a species to learn about what plants are around us that we can eat, and how to provide ourselves and loved ones with warmth and heat. Other things like how to wipe our backsides without tp without getting a disease or infection are also important, and how not to poke our eyes out when walking amongst trees. lol.
Might sound stupid, but it happenned before to civilisations, and the ones who survived knew how to survive. Most important, we need to learn how to communicate with each other lovingly (that includes communicating with Great Spirit), sing and dance and enjoy life without a TV or someone providing our 'thrills' for us....
So the prophecies come true, and even a few than NOBODY has heard about, because you can be sure that Great Spirit has a few surprises lined up, lol. What then? Back to rebuilding as usual if we have bothered to learn how, and those who are able to listen will have a chance to be taught by people like White Buffalo Calf Woman, , and the others like her all over the world. We must not give up hope.

Prophecies are fascinating, and I have to admit a bit of addiction to them, as they are so similar all over the world, like creation accounts, and it reminds me of other times. i think our ancestors were a global culturally communicating people. It's just a bit late to be worried about what might happen or has happenned, because it is allready happening, again!

"It's time"

lol

love, light and peace,

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Old 07-22-2008, 09:06 PM   #14
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Asking questions about native spirituality on the internet has become somewhat of a taboo. This is mainly because new agers and other phonies coming to us in the past, learning a little of this and that, and then reteaching those things to others in seminars at $300 a person per session. Thus the rule just sort of evolved out of defense against such cultural stealing. But even before this phenomenon there was much persecution. My own elders (who don't use computers much) who are shown some of the posts on here and other sites just sort of laugh at the "protocols" people have come up with over the years. If you have a question, ask it. You'll either get an answer or you won't, and the answer will either be serious or just B.S., or maybe just serious B.S.

There are books about native spiritual traditions, by natives, although it has become en vogue in recent years to just parrot "go ask your elders" until those words blend into the wallpaper. Thomas Banyacya was one of four Hopi traditionalists chosen by elders in 1948 to travel and share Hopi prophecy teachings far and wide, and apparently is the most well known as he was the longest survivor. I did a quick search of Google and Amazon and found no books by him or directly about him (not that they don't exist, do your own detailed search if you wish). This notion that Indian elder's don't write or read books about their own culture, I have learned to find rather amusing. I have a copy of "Drummers and Dreamers" by Click Relander, a book I've also seen on the shelves of my elders. It's a great book about the history of the Columbia River, it's tribes and families, and the spread of the washat dance and the Indian Shaker Church as well as their trials and tribulations. Afterall they are an important part of the history of the region in which I now live. It is not intended to make anyone an "expert" and nobody should presume they've become one after reading, and I think because New Agers have done this the "go ask your granny" crowd is just going through an extended knee-jerk reaction to them.

As far as the Baha'i Faith goes, I don't know much beyond finding them a bit pushy, though in a much more polite way than proselytizing Christians are. From their arguments, the few I've met seem to believe that all religions are basically right and OK but are just off by little bits and pieces -- not enough to cost you "salvation" but if you accepted Baha'i beliefs you'd only then be spot-on. I was told, for example, that you can be Baha'i and be Christian at the same time. (Substitute Christian with "Buddhist", "Jewish", "Moslem", "Druid", "Moonhowler" or whatever you wish and their argument remains the same). But I do, believe it or not, have friends who belong to the Baha'i Faith (who have simply learned not to push it on me) and we get along just fine now. I really don't care what anyone else believes, whether they go to heaven or hell is their problem, not mine.
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Old 07-23-2008, 06:33 AM   #15
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Asking questions about native spirituality on the internet has become somewhat of a taboo. This is mainly because new agers and other phonies coming to us in the past, learning a little of this and that, and then reteaching those things to others in seminars at $300 a person per session. Thus the rule just sort of evolved out of defense against such cultural stealing. But even before this phenomenon there was much persecution. My own elders (who don't use computers much) who are shown some of the posts on here and other sites just sort of laugh at the "protocols" people have come up with over the years. If you have a question, ask it. You'll either get an answer or you won't, and the answer will either be serious or just B.S., or maybe just serious B.S.

There are books about native spiritual traditions, by natives, although it has become en vogue in recent years to just parrot "go ask your elders" until those words blend into the wallpaper. Thomas Banyacya was one of four Hopi traditionalists chosen by elders in 1948 to travel and share Hopi prophecy teachings far and wide, and apparently is the most well known as he was the longest survivor. I did a quick search of Google and Amazon and found no books by him or directly about him (not that they don't exist, do your own detailed search if you wish). This notion that Indian elder's don't write or read books about their own culture, I have learned to find rather amusing. I have a copy of "Drummers and Dreamers" by Click Relander, a book I've also seen on the shelves of my elders. It's a great book about the history of the Columbia River, it's tribes and families, and the spread of the washat dance and the Indian Shaker Church as well as their trials and tribulations. Afterall they are an important part of the history of the region in which I now live. It is not intended to make anyone an "expert" and nobody should presume they've become one after reading, and I think because New Agers have done this the "go ask your granny" crowd is just going through an extended knee-jerk reaction to them.

As far as the Baha'i Faith goes, I don't know much beyond finding them a bit pushy, though in a much more polite way than proselytizing Christians are. From their arguments, the few I've met seem to believe that all religions are basically right and OK but are just off by little bits and pieces -- not enough to cost you "salvation" but if you accepted Baha'i beliefs you'd only then be spot-on. I was told, for example, that you can be Baha'i and be Christian at the same time. (Substitute Christian with "Buddhist", "Jewish", "Moslem", "Druid", "Moonhowler" or whatever you wish and their argument remains the same). But I do, believe it or not, have friends who belong to the Baha'i Faith (who have simply learned not to push it on me) and we get along just fine now. I really don't care what anyone else believes, whether they go to heaven or hell is their problem, not mine.
Once again a great post
Good words
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Old 07-23-2008, 08:53 AM   #16
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Talking answers

Thank you Wakalapi and Josiah

I remember reading "The Hopi Message
AN ADDRESS BY THOMAS BANYACYA, KYKOTSMOVI, ARIZONA", and it sounded like the truth to me. Sometimes things just have a ring of truth in them, and other times it's truth mixed with bs. Too much of the latter, and it gets tiring. It would take a lifetime to filter it on our own. Lifetimes maybe.

For years, I have wanted to share things like dreams-visions with someone who would understand, but ran into the "go ask your elders" lol, which is understandable but frustrating. Not that the content of the dreams etc is necessarily a big deal, but I've had the desire to share anyway. I felt it's stuff that I should be sharing with others who would understand. I also wouldn't want to post to a public forum stuff that would be inappropriate. It would be really nice to have some verification, or just know if I'm imagining things. If I am, that's ok too, and I have plenty of company!

Thank you for your understanding and kindness.

love, light and peace,
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Old 07-23-2008, 01:13 PM   #17
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k...I'm gonna throw you a curve ball here...

Anyone dig into the circumstances of dec. 21, 2012?
I read some of it, and alot of it was all hype, until I read something from NASA, yeah the actual nasa guys and they said something is gonna happen on that day as well at around 11:11am GMT. Something about the sun aligning with jupiter or something like that, and something about the milky way and how our solar system is starting to gravitate the opisite way.
I'm no science nut or nerd but shyt was crazy informitave.
Thought I'd slap this on here cuz its supposed to be a mayan prophecy plus just about every other religions, including our own.
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Old 07-23-2008, 02:34 PM   #18
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Ancients and fire fools

Hi Dakota Sandz,

That has always interested me. There is alot of similarity all over the world, and some of it just seems obvious. I believe there was once a civilisation that did at least as much travelling as we have accomplished recently, and that their clues to us are all over the place...a bit here and a bit there, and in things like the very advanced sacred geometry of their architecture..

Not sure about the exact 2012 date, but do believe that the light entering Earth is going to change, and be more towards the blue end of the spectrum. There's alot of interesting info trickling out from scientists/researcherss about our solar system.
It's really interesting how the sizes of planets and their satellites, their distances to each other, and even the proportions of the human body are all interlinked with sacred geometry, and coded into ancient architecture. i think we ignore the message of Ancient peoples around the world at our peril.
Science still has no public explanation of how they (The Ancients) achieved many of the things they did. So I assume they knew alot more about cycles and rythms of the universe than we do, and maybe just left us important info if we could gather it together in peace.
I doubt it would be a good idea to give a warlike people information that they would most likely try to twist into weapons and such, like it is said we did before the last world-end.
I'm not sure we are in any way peaceable enough right now to put to put the wisdom of the ancients to any good use, which is a shame. By 'we', I mean the 'white' tribe who was supposed to learn about fire, not use it as bombs to kill people. And where we got that knowledge from is a whole other conspiracy theory :-S
Don't know if any of that makes any sense. I'm a bit of a fringe-reality hypothesiser to tell the truth.

I think the universe will re-balance itself periodically wether we like the cosequences of our own disharmony or not, and at the moment there's a **** load of re-balancing to be done.

love, light and peace,
Celtic Fire.

(my ancestry in this incarnation are Celtic, and I make ceramics using fire, hence 'Celtic Fire', hehe ;-) )
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Old 07-23-2008, 10:19 PM   #19
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You know I have a problem with prophesies...
Especially ones that name a specific day and time
I guess because I read about the calendar we currently use...
It has problems with it one of which the Year does not remain constant thus why we have a Leap Year every 4 years and Leap min and leap seconds every one in awhile
The thing is, this was not done till the middle ages sometime in the 1500's when the church started trying to figure out Easter
LOL they tried and tried to no avail. Astronomy was starting to gain some respectability and it was observed that the Solar System was Precessing and that we need to adjust our calendar
So several weeks was chopped out and thrown away!!!
Whoosh
So what I am saying is the calendar is subjective to the present user
Not all Calendars are based on the same thing either
Some use a arbitrary point in their history and then count from that point


Ok looking up the scientific definition
On 21 Dec 2012:
The Mesoamerican Long Count calendar, notably used by the Maya civilization among others of pre-Columbian Mesoamerica, completes its thirteenth b'ak'tun cycle since the calendar's mythical starting point (equivalent to August 11, 3114 BC in the proleptic Gregorian calendar, according to the "GMT-correlation" JDN= 584283).[6] The Long Count b'ak'tun date of this starting point (13.0.0.0.0) is repeated, for the first time in a span of approximately 5,125 solar years. The significance of this period-ending to the pre-Columbian Maya themselves is unclear, and there is an incomplete inscription (Tortuguero Monument 6) that records this date. It is also to be found carved on the walls of the Temple of Inscriptions in Palenque, where it functions as a base date from which other dates are computed. However, it is conjectured that this may represent in the Maya belief system a transition from the current Creation world into the next.

So there is no clearly worded inscription that says in the Mayan Language the world will end on this date. Just that the calendar that they set in motion in the ancient past will end on that date
Much like the calendar I have that lists out the next ten years and then.... Ends... gasp!!!

Reading history books I was fascinated by behavior that we saw only a few years ago
Yes the Millennium 2000
Well the same sort of hysteria was seen in 1900's and 1800's the was the global communication was rather slow back then so it was not as wide-spread as was seen the past millium...

As for the planets moons and stars suddenly reversing course and blue light seen instead of red
Holy Crap
And if I sail to the end of the world I will fall off

Umm guys the Sun reverses its poles every 11 years and yes the next scheduled reversal is in 2012
But the sun has been doing this for the last 4 billion years


Ok back to the Mayan Calendar

The Mayan Calendar
So what is the Mayan Calendar? The calendar was constructed by an advanced civilization called the Mayans around 250-900 AD. Evidence for the Maya empire stretches around most parts of the southern states of Mexico and reaches down to the current geological locations of Guatemala, Belize, El Salvador and some of Honduras. The people living in Mayan society exhibited very advanced written skills and had an amazing ability when constructing cities and urban planning. The Mayans are probably most famous for their pyramids and other intricate and grand buildings. The people of Maya had a huge impact on Central American culture, not just within their civilization, but with other indigenous populations in the region. Significant numbers of Mayans still live today, continuing their age-old traditions.

The Mayans used many different calendars and viewed time as a meshing of spiritual cycles. While the calendars had practical uses, such as social, agricultural, commercial and administrative tasks, there was a very heavy religious element. Each day had a patron spirit, signifying that each day had specific use. This contrasts greatly with our modern Gregorian calendar which primarily sets the administrative, social and economic dates.


Most of the Mayan calendars were short. The Tzolk'in calendar lasted for 260 days and the Haab' approximated the solar year of 365 days. The Mayans then combined both the Tzolk'in and the Haab' to form the "Calendar Round", a cycle lasting 52 Haab's (around 52 years, or the approximate length of a generation). Within the Calendar Round were the trecena (13 day cycle) and the veintena (20 day cycle). Obviously, this system would only be of use when considering the 18,980 unique days over the course of 52 years. In addition to these systems, the Mayans also had the "Venus Cycle". Being keen and highly accurate astronomers they formed a calendar based on the location of Venus in the night sky. It's also possible they did the same with the other planets in the Solar System.

Using the Calendar Round is great if you simply wanted to remember the date of your birthday or significant religious periods, but what about recording history? There was no way to record a date older than 52 years.

The end of the Long Count = the end of the Earth?
The Mayans had a solution. Using an innovative method, they were able to expand on the 52 year Calendar Round. Up to this point, the Mayan Calendar may have sounded a little archaic - after all, it was possibly based on religious belief, the menstrual cycle, mathematical calculations using the numbers 13 and 20 as the base units and a heavy mix of astrological myth. The only principal correlation with the modern calendar is the Haab' that recognised there were 365 days in one solar year (it's not clear whether the Mayans accounted for leap years). The answer to a longer calendar could be found in the "Long Count", a calendar lasting 5126 years.

I'm personally very impressed with this dating system. For starters, it is numerically predictable and it can accurately pinpoint historical dates. However, it depends on a base unit of 20 (where modern calendars use a base unit of 10). So how does this work?


The base year for the Mayan Long Count starts at "0.0.0.0.0". Each zero goes from 0-19 and each represent a tally of Mayan days. So, for example, the first day in the Long Count is denoted as 0.0.0.0.1. On the 19th day we'll have 0.0.0.0.19, on the 20th day it goes up one level and we'll have 0.0.0.1.0. This count continues until 0.0.1.0.0 (about one year), 0.1.0.0.0 (about 20 years) and 1.0.0.0.0 (about 400 years). Therefore, if I pick an arbitrary date of 2.10.12.7.1, this represents the Mayan date of approximately 1012 years, 7 months and 1 day.

This is all very interesting, but what has this got to do with the end of the world? The Mayan Prophecy is wholly based on the assumption that something bad is going to happen when the Mayan Long Count calendar runs out. Experts are divided as to when the Long Count ends, but as the Maya used the numbers of 13 and 20 at the root of their numerical systems, the last day could occur on 13.0.0.0.0. When does this happen? Well, 13.0.0.0.0 represents 5126 years and the Long Count started on 0.0.0.0.0, which corresponds to the modern date of August 11th 3114 BC. Have you seen the problem yet? The Mayan Long Count ends 5126 years later on December 21st, 2012.

Doomsday
When something ends (even something as innocent as an ancient calendar), people seem to think up the most extreme possibilities for the end of civilization as we know it. A brief scan of the internet will pull up the most popular to some very weird ways that we will, with little logical thought, be wiped off the face of the planet. Archaeologists and mythologists on the other hand believe that the Mayans predicted an age of enlightenment when 13.0.0.0.0 comes around; there isn't actually much evidence to suggest doomsday will strike. If anything, the Mayans predict a religious miracle, not anything sinister.

Myths are abound and seem to be fuelling movie storylines. It looks like the new Indiana Jones and the Kingdom of the Crystal Skull is even based around the Mayan myth that 13 crystal skulls can save humanity from certain doom. This myth says that if the 13 ancient skulls are not brought together at the right time, the Earth will be knocked off its axis. This might be a great plotline for blockbuster movies, but it also highlights the hype that can be stirred, lighting up religious, scientific and not-so-scientific ideas that the world is doomed.


Some of the most popular space-based threats to the Earth and mankind focus on Planet X wiping most life off the planet, meteorite impacts, black holes, killer solar flares, Gamma Ray Bursts from star systems, a rapid ice age and a polar (magnetic) shift. There is so much evidence against these things happening in 2012, it's shocking just how much of a following they have generated. Each of the above "threats" needs their own devoted article as to why there is no hard evidence to support the hype.

But the fact remains, the Mayan Doomsday Prophecy is purely based on a calendar which we believe hasn't been designed to calculate dates beyond 2012. Mayan archaeo-astronomers are even in debate as to whether the Long Count is designed to be reset to 0.0.0.0.0 after 13.0.0.0.0, or whether the calendar simply continues to 20.0.0.0.0 (approximately 8000 AD) and then reset. As Karl Kruszelnicki brilliantly writes:

"…when a calendar comes to the end of a cycle, it just rolls over into the next cycle. In our Western society, every year 31 December is followed, not by the End of the World, but by 1 January. So 13.0.0.0.0 in the Mayan calendar will be followed by 0.0.0.0.1 - or good-ol' 22 December 2012, with only a few shopping days left to Christmas." - Excerpt from Dr Karl's "Great Moments in Science".
Sources: Dr Karl's Great Moments in Science, IHT, 2012 Wiki



No Doomsday in 2012 | Universe Today
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Old 07-24-2008, 10:26 AM   #20
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I work with a tradtional Mayan from the village of Nebah, Guatamala. She still visits her village every year and speaks to family members and village officials weekly.

She said no one in her village believes that the world will end in 2012.



It is quite ironic that non Mayans take this more seriously than Mayans who grew up in their communities....
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