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Old 09-14-2000, 11:57 AM   #1
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should none veterans wear the american flag in their beadwork. just want some opinions on this?? please.


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Old 09-14-2000, 04:39 PM   #2
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I too have a US flag design on my dance stick. It is to honor the veterans that have served from my family as well as the MIA-POW from Vietnam whose bracelet I wore. He his remains were eventualy found and identified a few years ago.

Just my two cents worth too.
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Old 09-15-2000, 12:05 AM   #3
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Many people say no, but I never have understood that reasoning. Even though we are members of different nations and tribes, we are still citizens of the United States of America and many of us are proud that we live in the best country in the world. In my opinion, if an American wants to display the flag and the pride felt therin on their dance clothes, go ahead. In the "old days" so to speak, Lakota people viewed the flag as an object of power for the cavalry who carried in into battle like a staff would have been carried by our people. That's why there was so much beadwork done in the late 1800s involving American Flag motifs.

Many people who are non-vets wear the flag in honor of vets in their family or just in honor of the flag or the country or whatever. The American flag means many different things to many people, and thus you will see many different interpretations of it; some good and some bad.

As an example, my wife has beaded American flag motifs on her flat fan she carries as a Southern Cloth dancer in honor of her grandfathers who were veterans.

Well, just my two cents.

[This message has been edited by BPlenty (edited September 14, 2000).]

[This message has been edited by BPlenty (edited September 14, 2000).]
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Old 09-15-2000, 12:39 AM   #4
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tha's all i'm asking for his people's 2 cents otherwise i might get rich.


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Old 09-20-2000, 02:59 PM   #5
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anyone else like to comment. please i need some help here. a friend of mine is making a grass outfit and has asked me to do the beadwork. and i need some opions on flags. he is not a veteran.

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Old 09-20-2000, 03:17 PM   #6
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I've seen lots of people with flags on their outfits (beadwork) or on their shawls or other parts of their outfits. I don't think a flag design on a non-veteran would be disrespectful. As BPlenty said, the Native people had a strong warrior tradition and admired the bravery of warriors no matter which side they were on.
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Old 09-20-2000, 03:24 PM   #7
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My Comanche straight suit has a flag pattern shirt and my tail stick has flag pattern beadwork, Im not a vet but I think have a flag design is good. Some people may say that wear the flag is disrescpetful...these may be the same people that wave "made in china" american flags at parades. Im sticking with it...besides...its a good color pattern also.
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Old 09-20-2000, 03:26 PM   #8
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thank you

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Old 09-20-2000, 03:54 PM   #9
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Howdy. Iam just a young punk, but I would have to say that you should ask him why he has chosen that pattern and what it means to him. I think it is a matter of teaste too. I think a little flag here and there is great, but A whole big flag for your apron and back or your apron is not cool. I have been taought by my Vet Uncles and Grandparents that to wear the flag below your waist is disrespectful. But a stylized flag pattern like stars and stripes aranged differently is OK.. This is just my families way.. and thats what I have been taought.. Is this person just startin out dancing? He sould have a reason why he wants the flag there on his outfit.
Take care.
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Old 09-23-2000, 05:04 AM   #10
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Whitewolf

I am a 10 yr. vet of the USAF that served during the gulf war. Though I have heard many thing on this subject both pro and con, I have to say I don't have a problem with what you are asking. One of the strong notes of teach that I have taken out of the Southern plains tribes and my own family is that the Vet is honored, not worshipped. Those of us that have been overseas and drawn hazardous duty pay know that the one thing that kept us going was our families and friends at home. I was taught, and learned first hand, that the people that we leave behind suffer as much from our absence as we do. In Oklahoma and the surrounding states there are groups like war mothers, and victory clubs. They are there because we as vets know that without everyone at home we would never be able to do the things we do. Yes, it is ultimately up to us to survive and come home, but without our families and all those folks we don't even know that make the weapons and grow the food and all the other things, we couldn't make it. For this reason I feel everyone here at home has the right to the flag that in some way we all defend. Respect it and wear it well, because as they say; ALL GAVE SOME, SOME GAVE ALL.

This is just how I have been taught and how I feel about this.
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Old 09-30-2000, 01:49 PM   #11
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I don't know if my two cents are welcome, but I personally think intent is everything.
If you listen to your heart and are respectful of what the Flag means and are truly honoring it and not flouting it in an unbecoming way or just because it looks cool, then as a daughter of an NDN WW2 Veteran I say blessings on you. My father gave everything he had so that you would have the right to do just that.

PS. Gotta agree though just from a personal perspective, wearing it below the waist doesn't seem to good just like you wouldn't sit on a real flag, but I'm sure that's not what you had in mind anyway.
I've got my flack jacket out and am ready for the firing squad now.
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Old 09-30-2000, 03:10 PM   #12
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I've seen American and Canadian Flag beadwork on the front of aprons/breechcloths and on mocassins. They were tastefully done, and worn respectfully. I do not see this as something negative even though it's below the waste.

The intentions behind the design are more important than the misinterpretations of people that do not know the wearer of these dance clothes.
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Old 10-06-2000, 05:26 PM   #13
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WW,
Several yeas ago Bill Powers published an article in Whispering Wind concerning flag designs and their use among the Lakota. There is also a catalog from the museum show 'the American Indian and the American Flag'. This also has some info about the whys and wherefores of flag design.

In the short run, what ever people think now about who should or should not wear a flag design, originally it was used to allow dances to be held under the eyes of the reservation authorities. How could the agent stop a dance that was celebrating the Fourth of July with all the dancers wearing American flags? Powers has a lot of complicated secret stuff in his article, but my explanation was given to me by Lenny Hare, an old Lakota guy from Green Grass, S.D. Lenny's story is much more fun...and I have no reason to doubt its truthfulness.

Louis Garcia could probably help out here.

[This message has been edited by raptor (edited October 06, 2000).]

[This message has been edited by raptor (edited October 06, 2000).]
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