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Old 09-17-2002, 01:39 PM   #21
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I never said that you weren't traditional and I never claimed to be holier than thou. I expressed my opinion strongly about a dance.

You have lived on the rez all your life, but have you ever ventured off it. You never knew that other tribes also duck and dive? Also, it is not a dance that everyone else just now started doing. In the part of the states I live in it has been done for well over a hundred years, maybe longer. That is not to say that it precedes the Crow duck and dive, it is to let you know that it is not something new. And yes, several tribes claim it. Also, F.Y.I. it is not sang or drummed the same way that the Crow style duck and dive is. There are differences.

I gotta admit that I have not lived on the rez all my life. I have chosen to move around, and here is the reason why. A long time ago, some very bad people put my tribe on a rez against their will, and had every intention of keeping us there unless traveling to boarding school. This way they could keep track of us easier and keep us beat down.

I live on the rez right now, and when here I take full advantage of learning what I can from the elders. But I also look forward to venturing out again so that way I do not become so close minded that I look down on another Indian because of where they live or grew up.

There just isn't enough of us Indians for us to be hatin, fightin, or killin each other. People who hate Indians love to see doing this. Especially when we fight over something stupid like Indian demographics.

Instead of b*tchin about how urban Indians act, do something about it. Help them out man. Teach them what you know instead of looking down on them. If you live on the Crow rez then you are a hop skip and jump from a bunch of urban Indians in Billings. Traditional knowledge is NOT reserved for only rez natives, because there hasn't always been reservations.
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Old 09-17-2002, 05:09 PM   #22
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Well I said I lived on the reservation all my life but I never said I never ventured off of it. FYI I been to most of the states within the US and Canada and also Mexico, I have been overseas in Europe from England to Spain to France and Germany. I have been to a lot of places in my short span of life, I have been to many a powwows in the US from Washington to Conneticut and also Canada. In this one time when I powwowed all Summer long for three straight years(this comment is meaning like everyweekend thing, and not my whole life in general) and going to powwows I have never been to, with different beliefs, I have never seen anyone else with any sort of duck and dive. If you want to, educate me in how this particluar tribe uses the duck N dive as a means to emmulate a war dance and maybe someday when I participate in a powwow they sponsor I can check it out. FYI when I attended college, I started a drum group within city limits and very well tried to get some urbnanites to sing in the group that I had started, but what do I get? Another urbanite who rejects who they are by making a living in the city and restraining themselves from all practices of there tradition. It is not up to me to educate people who are older than me on WHY they should believe what our tribe believes in. Like you said, Billings is a hop skip and jump away so Y cant an urbanite take the time to go learn? I mean you dont learn everything at a powwow right? You learn it by wanting to learn, you go and seek the advice and the knowledge of not just elders but also uncles and brothers who already know what needs to be done to participate in tribal beliefs. Well I think that says it for me....PEACE!!!!

Oh yea, I was offered a job with a federal law enforcement agency(not BIA) in albuquerue, New Mexico and im moving over there for few years around next april.....so dont think im not educated enough to move for the first time....

Oh yea, im not hatin, im participatin!!!! PEACE!!!
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Old 09-17-2002, 06:33 PM   #23
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Red face

LU LU LU LU LU LU LU LU LU!!! LU LU LU LU LU LU LU LU LU!!!

The sad thing is CrowBoi shouldn't even have to go there & break himself down cuz someone ignorantly ASSumed he was straight from da rez!
By the way......why make one feel inferrior because they're from the rez that was pretty insulting!
(that's how i saw your "venture off the rez" comments!)

You go CROWBOI!!

~Buckskinz
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Old 09-17-2002, 11:38 PM   #24
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duck & dive

just a few words about the duck&dive song. i am nimipu(nez perce) from joseph's band of wallowa. in our teachings the elders have told us the way this song came to our people. the song was given to us by the creator, it was a warriors song that came about after a war with the white soldiers as the soldiers fired their cannons the warriors seen a puff of smoke and they would run and get out of the way of the cannon ball that was fired thus ducking &diving. we are also told this song was sang for warriors &vets. one time a vet came home and danced with the men who were round bustle dancers old style so the whip man told the drum to sing this song to honor him. this is why people say round bustle dancers dance the duck&dive. im not saying the crows originated this song but they do have similar songs to re-enact battle.it is good to know that people know their history & culture, not too many do. our round bustle style is similar to chicken dancing but it is more striaght up, not as fancy. good day my relatives.

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Old 09-18-2002, 12:12 AM   #25
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I guess I need to go north more to Powwow.

I'm going to step out here and show my ignorance, but while reading all this about chicken dances and Duck/dive dances I have no clue what you all are talking about. I may have heard these songs and just didn't know what to call them. I know what a Crow hop is which is different from our horse (Pony) stealing songs which are different from a trot.

Without a clue.

Let's just stomp dance 'til sun up!!!!!!!!!!!
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Old 09-19-2002, 01:03 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally posted by buckskin pantyhose
LU LU LU LU LU LU LU LU LU!!! LU LU LU LU LU LU LU LU LU!!!

The sad thing is CrowBoi shouldn't even have to go there & break himself down cuz someone ignorantly ASSumed he was straight from da rez!
By the way......why make one feel inferrior because they're from the rez that was pretty insulting!
(that's how i saw your "venture off the rez" comments!)

You go CROWBOI!!

~Buckskinz
Now why en the heck would I make someone feel inferior from the rez, when im from the rez. I mean that would be totally biased, if that was the case than I should be eating my own words right? Shoot im straight from the rez and alwayz will be, I travel a lot because I like to meet new people and I like to see new places. I go home from a weeks or weekends worth of travel and my lil nephews are home waitin for me to tell them stories about my travels...must be cool to them...lol! Yea but thats just the way I am. Like most native leaders would say, keep you tradition but also obtain education and be a warrior in this 21st century, right?!?!?! MOST, not all, reservations have school along with oppotunities to obtain financial assistance...so it would be biased for me to say that most indian students dont have an opportunity to make a difference in their life....cuz most do and some dont take it. So why dont you tell me how much im putting down the natives from the rez?!?!?!?!

c
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Old 09-19-2002, 05:23 PM   #27
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Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa

Hold up there Crowboi, I think she is defending you and yelling at me.
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Old 09-20-2002, 01:56 AM   #28
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Duck and Dive...

The crows invented the Duck & Dive!!!...My A$$!!....hahtalekin was right, the That is strictly a NEZ PERCE song....
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Old 09-20-2002, 03:42 AM   #29
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I've also heard from at least one knowledgeable MC who said the duck-and-dive song is from the Nez Perce (N'mipu). Though often a contest song, it is also a sacred song that warrants standing and taking off your hat whenever it is sung.
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Old 09-20-2002, 01:32 PM   #30
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I have to comment...

I am not a world traveler. I am not secluded to one place but, I guess I can say I have been to places but for the most part, I strictly keep my powwowing local. From what I've known, the DuckNdive, The Chicken Dance and the Crow Hop have always been in our Crow culture. I've ALWAYS seen the Crow Wardancers dance this type of dance since I was just a little child.

I haven't seen a large pow-wow where they include duck and dive dances until recently. Now, locally around the Crow Rez, the duck and dive has always been danced by the Crow People. So go figure??

When you see a chicken dancers outfit, it basically derives from the Men's Crow Style Outfit. The only difference you see on the chicken dancers's out fit are the length in the breach cloth and the bustle and the pheasant feathers on top of the roach with cotton balls. hehe! But, you know what I am saying... Compare and Contrast both outfits. You will see they are somewhat similar.

Crow Hop....that word says it for it self "CROW". Obviously... it must derive from the Crow people.

so....the question lies....Have you seen these types of dances danced in your community? OR did you recently see it in a large pow wow?


Heck! In one of these threads, there was a young fancy dance lady who didn't know what the Crow hop was or how to dance it. hhmmmmmm....
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Old 09-20-2002, 04:01 PM   #31
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Thumbs down

Quote:
Originally posted by buckskin pantyhose
why make one feel inferrior because they're from the rez that was pretty insulting!
(that's how i saw your "venture off the rez" comments!)
THAT'S HOW I SAW IT TOO!!

Hey man...just cuz someone is from the rez, does it mean they're inferior?? I feel kinda insulted sometimes when people think that just because I'm from the rez, or because I live on the rez, etc., that I don't know sh*t about anything else. Personally, my travels have taken me through many MANY states, from West Coast to East Coast, not to mention that lil stint across the pacific, in da 808 state. Throughout my travels AND my education, I have also encountered many different types of people, whether they be ndnz from other tribes, Pacific Islanders, Asians, Europeans, Hispanics, whatever, and I've learned something new and unique from each and every one of them. ([email protected], enit Buckskinz...hehehe) ;);)Although that lil bit of RezZnEsS will always be a part of me, I, like a lot of other young ndnz today, do try my best to educate myself about other tribes, cultures, etc. Don't try to make assumptions about us rezKidz, cause we DO know more than you think.....
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Last edited by Siale; 09-20-2002 at 04:05 PM..
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Old 09-20-2002, 05:28 PM   #32
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Not only called the Duck and Dive...

Just letting you know...WE call it the "STOOPING" dance as well.
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Old 09-20-2002, 05:39 PM   #33
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Duck & Dive

I have seen this done all my life on my rez. I even danced it a million times before my accident, I don't dispute the origin of the chicken dance tho' you had a good point there.
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Old 09-23-2002, 03:16 AM   #34
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Hey guys I'm still clueless as to the differences in these dances. I guess I'll just have to ask my friend and Brother, Wardancer. He is a good Cheyenne Tradish. Maybe you guys can fight the rez wars later, By the way that war is as old as the rez's.
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Old 09-23-2002, 11:53 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally posted by Crowboi
So let me get this straight. You say people be claimin the duck and dive? Ahh man...thats a hoot!!! I aint never EVER seen it done anywhere else but CROW UNTIL lately!!! I seen it done at tribes with the golden age mens northern traditional and White Lodge being at Crow Fair all the time sang it like the crowz! Good job boyz! But anyway, let me ask this then!! If a certain song for a certain category is wrong then should there be someone to blame, i.e., arena director, committee, MC, or the drum? I mean cmon, you people talk about how traditional you are en shyt, if you cant even determine the proper song for the proper category then why heck are yall even speakin...over here at Crow we dance strictly to straight songs, crow hop(original), duck and dive and the stomp song, for women its straight, crow hop, and maybe sometimes a round dance.......I aint puttin no tribe down or nuttin like that but its just that it bothers the heck out of me that peepz be all talkin and aint got no papers to back dat a$$ up!!!!...lol! Anyway, next time you attend your local powwow, go up to one of the head staff and maybe put in your opinion. Maybe they just dont know!!! And oh yea, maybe yall should learn more about your history from an in-depth perspective rather than other people as-a-matter-of-fact opinions!!!!!! Laterz and peace out, see yall at Denver March!!!!!


madashell :D :Mad :Mad
You know thats a cute story about ducking when they were being shot at, but anyone who has hunted, been around rifles, in the military etc, KNOWS that the bullet travels faster than the speed of sound. What does this mean? That means if you waited until you heard the shot to duck, it would have been to late, because the bullet beat the sound to the target............hmmmm and do you know why White Lodge knows all those songs??? Come on, I know you know your oral history and you KNOW where crows come from, right?? :D
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Old 09-24-2002, 06:25 PM   #36
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Cool pshhh...and what...

Quote:
Originally posted by Sahnish


You know thats a cute story about ducking when they were being shot at, but anyone who has hunted, been around rifles, in the military etc, KNOWS that the bullet travels faster than the speed of sound. What does this mean? That means if you waited until you heard the shot to duck, it would have been to late, because the bullet beat the sound to the target............hmmmm and do you know why White Lodge knows all those songs??? Come on, I know you know your oral history and you KNOW where crows come from, right?? :D
Yeah, yeah...Crows&Hidatsas used to be down like that, and what??

But why'd you hafta come w/the 'cute'?? That's how our story goes. Do you come w/dis kinda attitude to ya gramz when she tells you dem old ndn stories 'bout why things are how they are?? You should know that's the way a lot of ndn stories are, & juss cuz it's not from your tribe or whateva, you ain't gotta act like that....
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Old 09-24-2002, 10:20 PM   #37
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Cool Hey Siale

I don't think I was talking to you? You Crow boi's mom or something?? :D
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Old 09-25-2002, 03:31 PM   #38
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Re: Hey Siale

Quote:
Originally posted by Sahnish
I don't think I was talking to you? You Crow boi's mom or something?? :D
Shaaa!! You might not have been talkin' to me, but you were commenting on something that has to do w/CROWZ. & as for bein' Crowboi's mom...PROLLY NOT!! (But he prolly my cuzzin tho...LoLz) Dayum, & I thought I had attitude......
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Old 09-25-2002, 07:16 PM   #39
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tdancy is an unknown quantity at this point
Join Date: Sep 2002
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the navajo's started it so quit get of it and i'll have an explantion for you in a minute! :Chatter :o
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