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Old 06-01-2000, 02:03 AM   #1
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Post INDIAN, AMERICAN INDIAN OR NATIVE?

AH-NEEN NIIDJI!!! (Hello my Friends)

I don't know if this topic has been applied as I'm new to the forum, but I'd like to know of all your opinions on what you would like to call yourself, or how you address other NDNs. I use the word NDN at times in a general manner as sometimes come at odds with my NDN brothers and sisters, and at times with my Elders. I prefer using Native, as it reflects my Native ancestry, which I am entirely proud of. Alot of people I know use in equal parts all three terms, and with this forum, maybe we can all get a clearer idea what the NDN people all think as a collective.

Megwitch (thanks)
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Old 06-01-2000, 09:33 AM   #2
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Ive heard more and more people gravitating towards useing the word indigenous. Native American was coined for by the govt to differentiate us from natural born americans.
Everyone knows the "Indio" indian origin.
Also Ive seen many people using the name of what theyre people call themselves. I didnt realize I did until a coworker told me last week, you know, when people ask you what you are you say Muscogee, or Muscogee/Seminole.
She said that why so many were confused because they though i was Mexican or soemthing. Which is sad for these peole because they obvioulsy didnt study theyre Georgia history.
Anyways. I guess it boils down to the situation and who your talking to. Either way as long as we know we are and where we're from it doesnt matter what we term we use.
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Old 06-02-2000, 12:01 PM   #3
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I was just recently reading a book about treaty rights. In the preface of the book was the debate and the reason they chose to refer to Indians as indians. It was chosen to refer as such, because all the treaties had been written as such.

For the others and for myself, I use Anishnabe most of all because that is our name for ourselves. But I also use "shinnob", native, native american, and probably indian too.

However, when I teach within the local schools I make mention of the many names that we have been given so that the children can understand that all of these terms refer to indian people and are in fact, referenced as such throughout the books they may read.

The term indigeneous is used more and more and probably most of all in canada. in canada, the people are in reserve communities not reservations and they are referred to as first nation bands not tribes. I hear the term indigeneous more often than not there.
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Old 06-03-2000, 02:15 AM   #4
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I always have and will continue to introduce myself or call myself a Cree Indian, Often I say this in Cree, so I am known as a Nehiyaw,
"Nay-hay-yaw", a Cree. I use the term Native as well as I am native to this land as the first nation of this land.
Today the government approved and flavor of the week is the term, Aboriginal. Rarely do I hear Indians called or referred to as indigeonous. I do not use either them and I find them rather annoying.

At home were Cree is the main language, we always refer to ourselves as Nehiywak and non-natives as Mooniyawak," Whitepeople".

It sounds stupid when someone speaks Cree and uses the government terminology to refer to an Indian. With all these minorites now refering to themselves as Indo-canadians, or african-american, etc, we are the only true americans as in Noth America's first people, Native American Indians!

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Old 06-12-2000, 04:44 PM   #5
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wew were enslaved as american indians and we will be freed as american indians so i call myself indian...there is no one word for all the native people of this land...i would prefer to be called oglala if i have the choice

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Old 06-13-2000, 03:40 AM   #6
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Wink

On the topic, FWIW ... here's a little article about Sherman Alexie and his thoughts on nomenclature. And nope, I didn't get to go see him at the bookstore. Bummer.
http://www.postnet.com/eaf.nsf/ByID/...2568FC0024BD5C

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Old 06-13-2000, 10:25 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally posted by Robert Laughing Owl:
wew were enslaved as american indians and we will be freed as american indians so i call myself indian...there is no one word for all the native people of this land...i would prefer to be called oglala if i have the choice
Robert,

The use of the word enslaved is really the wrong terminology here. If you look at our Country’s history you will find that the only ethnic group that can be described as truly enslaved would be the slaves from Africa.

I’ll agree that the US government treatment and ideology towards the Native American, as well as other ethnic groups, has been less the acceptable. We could discuss it for the next 4 months but that’s not the topic here. As for the second part of your statement about becoming freed you already are. We are guaranteed the rights to life, liberty, and pursuit of happiness and the list goes on and on. Although, our history is rather flawed it’s still the best country to live in. Try this one word for all the native people of this land - an American. As for calling yourself Oglala that’s pretty interesting to me, you look rather white to me. LOL http://www.powwows.com/ubb/biggrin.gif
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Old 06-13-2000, 11:08 AM   #8
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Just a few historical tidbits- Spanish and English colonists and governments DID attempt to enslave the native population. Columbus was the first example of enslaving natives. It didn't work out well because the natives were prone to European illnesses. In addition, native people could escape easier than Africans (what were Africans supposed to do- backstroke home across the Atlntic?). Therefore, enslaved Africans were used.

Some Spanish Catholic missionaries attempted to stop the enslavement of Indians, and the Spanish government eventually stopped the practice, although "slavery in disquise" still occurred under the encomienda system (basically a return to the medieval peasant/serf-lord relationship of possessing the people that live on the "lord's land.").

If we want to take this a step further, some tribes were pretty much forced by the American government to go against other tribes- some would consider this slavery as well. Many of these folks had little choice but to give in to the American government. Pawnees were used against the Lakota, as were the Crow, and others. During the "Minnesota War" of the early 1860s, Ihanktonwan men were used as scouts against their own eastern relatives. Many Ihanktonwan believed it would go against the 1858 Treaty arranged by Struck by the Ree and the U.S. if they aided their eastern brethren and didn't aid the Americans.

Slavery or coercion or strong-arming? Words have multiple meanings to different people.

Just another perspective . . .
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Old 06-13-2000, 12:41 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally posted by SingerMD:
Robert,

The use of the word enslaved is really the wrong terminology here. If you look at our Country’s history you will find that the only ethnic group that can be described as truly enslaved would be the slaves from Africa.

I’ll agree that the US government treatment and ideology towards the Native American, as well as other ethnic groups, has been less the acceptable. We could discuss it for the next 4 months but that’s not the topic here. As for the second part of your statement about becoming freed you already are. We are guaranteed the rights to life, liberty, and pursuit of happiness and the list goes on and on. Although, our history is rather flawed it’s still the best country to live in. Try this one word for all the native people of this land - an American. As for calling yourself Oglala that’s pretty interesting to me, you look rather white to me. LOL http://www.powwows.com/ubb/biggrin.gif
Say what?!? We were murdered and caralled onto reservations...the term enslaved refers to people who are forced to work or perform tasks against their will without payment. We were pushed onto reservations, if we were not killed, against our will. We were forced to farm and perform tasks that we were completely alienated to against our will. We were forced to change our appearance, religion, language, ect ect ect...against our will...we were enslaved....just because we were never put on plantations and forced to pick cotton does not change the fact that we were enslaved...get the facts straight.

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Old 06-13-2000, 03:29 PM   #10
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I dont need a dictionary reader. If you dont like the terminolgy i use than think of it as another word if you wish...you can argue your point to other AIM members like Russell Means, Ward Churchill, ect... who have used the same terminolgy on numerous accounts.

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Old 06-13-2000, 04:07 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally posted by Robert Laughing Owl:
I dont need a dictionary reader. If you dont like the terminolgy i use than think of it as another word if you wish...you can argue your point to other AIM members like Russell Means, Ward Churchill, ect... who have used the same terminolgy on numerous accounts.
Robert,

All right so you don’t like a dictionary reader, too bad. I find it helps to know what one is saying before he/she says it. As in the words of Abraham Lincoln 'tis better to be silent and thought a fool, than to speak and remove all doubt’.

Well back to my point. You mean to tell me that if I asked the following question out in South Dakota and Oklahoma the majority of indians would agree with it. “Did you know you are enslaved by the US government which owns you?” For some reason, I seriously doubt it!

So let me ask you the same question – Did you know, Robert Laughing Owl, you are enslave by the US government which owns you?
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Old 06-13-2000, 04:45 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally posted by SingerMD:
Robert,

All right so you don’t like a dictionary reader, too bad. I find it helps to know what one is saying before he/she says it. As in the words of Abraham Lincoln 'tis better to be silent and thought a fool, than to speak and remove all doubt’.

Well back to my point. You mean to tell me that if I asked the following question out in South Dakota and Oklahoma the majority of indians would agree with it. “Did you know you are enslaved by the US government which owns you?” For some reason, I seriously doubt it!

So let me ask you the same question – Did you know, Robert Laughing Owl, you are enslave by the US government which owns you?
well well...we are a indian quoting united states presidents and you are trying to preach to me!!! Give me a break here. And dont misquote me either, or try to twist my words to make your point... you wanna use another word go ahead...you can call all of us fools if it makes you feel better...that statement was originally made by Russell Means...is he a fool too now...dont think that you have the right to call me a fool or question my motives..i fight for my people, do you?

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Old 06-13-2000, 05:04 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally posted by Robert Laughing Owl:
well well...we are a indian quoting united states presidents and you are trying to preach to me!!! Give me a break here. And dont misquote me either, or try to twist my words to make your point... you wanna use another word go ahead...you can call all of us fools if it makes you feel better...that statement was originally made by Russell Means...is he a fool too now...dont think that you have the right to call me a fool or question my motives..i fight for my people, do you?
First of all Robert – I’m not twisting your words. It was you yourself who wrote ‘we were enslaved as american indians and we will be freed as american indians’. If you look at the tenses in your sentence you are saying you were enslaved (past tenses) and will be freed (future tense). Therefore your statement is implying that you are still enslaved (present tense). So as for miss quoting or misinterpreting you, I have not. I would suggest however that you phrase your statements to mean exactly the point you are trying to get across.

Secondly, I’m not calling you or any member of the AIM organization a fool. You’re the one who made that assumption. As for questioning your motives I do believe that’s a freedom granted to me – you know freedom of speech.

Just my opinions.

[This message has been edited by SingerMD (edited June 13, 2000).]
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Old 06-13-2000, 05:08 PM   #14
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ok ok ok get over it damn are you an english teacher? Have you not heard the saying that somethigs are said to be inspirational...maybe slavery is gramatically the wrong term but the meaning is ther...the word make people think...make them angry and make them change things...instead of tearing it aprt and analyzing look for the meaning of what im saying

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Old 06-13-2000, 05:12 PM   #15
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Ahem, excuse me gentlemen, yes, I'm speaking to Robert Lauging Owl and Singer MD, although I don't question either of you your integrity, I just like to remind you that the question was merely intended to "poll"? other NDNs responses to the topic, I didn't mean for anyone to get into a war of words, which I'm sure could go on for days, saying it in a good way, as I can attest to the wonderful structure of each of your arguments, but please gentlemen, a wise ol' NDN (my mom) once said....
".....shake hands now and be friends forever......"

Megwitch, Niidjiis!! (Thank you, my friends)
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Old 06-13-2000, 05:24 PM   #16
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well put straightdancerinaz. You forgot to mention beautiful women.

OTR
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Old 06-13-2000, 06:05 PM   #17
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im done with it my statement was meant o make apoint...not start a argument

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Old 06-14-2000, 01:46 AM   #18
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Let me clarify my above statement, the term enslave means to “put into slavery”. Slavery is defined as 1. The owning or keeping of slaves as a practice or institution; slaveholding 2. the condition of being a slave; bondage; servitude 3. hard work or toil that done by slaves.

I hardly think the plight of the Native American can be termed as slavery. Yes, if you read and research history you’ll see how piss poorly our government has and still treats the Native American. My point here is your terminology not the plight they faced. I do not believe that the institution know as slavery holds true to the Native American. As for the Spanish trying to enslave the native population that can be seen as a clear-cut example of enslavement where individual landowners owned slaves.

As for the fact that some tribes were forced to go against other tribes that is true. A simple explanation is that they became mercenaries, had been long time enemies or the use of treaties and agreement that would be made and eventually broken. As for the murdering and use of reservations the US government did and continues to force the Indian into their own likeness such as appearance, religion, language etc. etc. etc. But in no form is this a form of slavery in which one man owns another for use as he/she sees fit in order to make a profit.
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Old 06-14-2000, 11:27 AM   #19
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In response to the original question, Indian seems to be the preferred method throughout Indian Country, hello people. I mean really, how many times, have you ever heard a real Indian call another one a Native American or even American Indian for that matter. Its all like, "Oh, they are an Indin." However, I do agree that identifying someone by their tribal group is better i.e. Oglala, Kiowa, etc.

In response to the slavery issue. You are only enslaved if you wish to be thought of yourself like that. How are you enslaved if you live in Charleston, SC? That place rocks the house!! My wife and I love Charleston, minus the heat http://www.powwows.com/ubb/smile.gif of course. Robert, I don't know if you've ever been to S. Dakota before, but that is where my parents live, at Pine Ridge in modest housing which is being extremely kind. I don't consider them to be enslaved and I don't feel enslaved and my wife doesn't feel enslaved. We have all the rights and privileges of any U.S. citizen. So where is the enslavement? Matter of fact, go to Pine Ridge and tell the residents there that they are enslaved; you'd probably get slapped. I know I'm gonna hear it for this, but guys, come on move on. That stuff happened a whlie ago. There are much more pressing issues. Like for instance, our tribal building, the Red Cloud Building has been taken over since January...the whole govt. out there is in a shambles. There's you an issue. To end that discussion, Lakota people were only moved onto reservations about 115 years ago and we were never enslaved. Pine Ridge is located in the poorest county in the U.S. (Shannon County),but the culture is almost still intact. There are still sun dances, the language is still spoken, the songs and dances are still alive. Other tribes gave all that up in favor of the European ways. So you tell me, who is enslaved? Our people at Pine Ridge or the ones who gave up and don't even know how to count to ten in their native language. Just some ramblings.
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Old 06-23-2000, 04:48 PM   #20
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I would like to add a comment about reservations. I noticed that someone posting used the phrase, "corralled" or "pushed" onto reservations. I'm not trying to start an argument here. I would just like to point out that we must stop supporting the misnomer that the government or white people somehow "gave" us reservations or forced us there. Granted, our backs were against the wall many times when making land cessions. However, our reservations are land that is "reserved" for us; land that has never been owned by anyone except Indian people. Our ancestors fought hard for the land that remains in our hands and we should value it because of that. By perpetuating the idea that we were "pushed" onto reservations, we create a resentment toward reservations that is unhealthy. We need to begin thinking of the reservations in a positive way, like BPlenty said. That's all.
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