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Old 03-20-2003, 07:55 PM   #1
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native american church

what do you think about the native american church?
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Old 03-21-2003, 05:10 PM   #2
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Don't know - haven't been to it. Wasn't taught to do peyote ceremonies. Doesn't mean they're wrong.

Have you gone to one - what do YOU think about the NAC?
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Old 03-21-2003, 05:31 PM   #3
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well, for me, i dont practice a particular religion, but i pray and smudge when i dance... and sometimes i'll attend diffeerent ceremonies like but i tend be open and try nac or try other things

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Old 03-21-2003, 06:57 PM   #4
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I know the NAC is a pretty major religion in parts Indian Country. I heard something like a quarter of the people on some of the larger reservations (maybe even more) are a part of it. Unfortunately, like our Sun Dances and a few other people's practices, there are new age wannabe's attracted that want to take certain parts and incorporate them into their own makeshift traditions. And then people see the wackos and think they represent the true, mainstream NAC and it can tarnish their image.

I don't know if I'd quite call NAC a regular religion, maybe they are, I don't know if there is a set doctrinal statement. I would presume there would be if they are called a "church". But I dunno, here I go blabbin' when I've never even been to one.
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Old 03-21-2003, 08:27 PM   #5
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Thanks for that bit of insight!

Yeah up here in the Northwest we have something called the Indian Shaker Church. Not related to NAC, but I heard that the Shakers have some kind of historical tie to the Ghost Dance movement. I don't know about that one, I always thought John Slocum (Squaxin) started it. But I have alot of friends that are involved with the Indian Shaker Church. Many of the opening prayers said at powwows in this area are said in the Shaker tradition.
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Old 03-21-2003, 09:36 PM   #6
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I really don't know what to think about it.

I didn't grow up going to any particular "Church" in fact I was told all growing up, only hipocrits went to church. But I remembered that my Great Grandmother set great store in the Bible, and read it every day, she taught me about Jesus, and what he sacrificed for us ......

But then I went to Church expecting to find what Great Grandma talked about, all I saw was a man who talked real nice, until he got up in the pulpit, and then proceeded to scream, rant and rave, and thump his bible down on the pulpit, and people acting real wierd in the name of religion ......

I go back to what my Great Grandmother taught me, what Jesus tried to teach people, be nice, don't talk mean about people, treat people the way you want to be treated .... hey makes sence to me, so that is the way I live.

Yes I smudge, when I was told my sister was brain dead, and going to be taken off of life support, I not only prayed hard, but also lit some cedar, and sage, and let my prayer be taken up in the smoke, all I could pray was thy will be done .....

oh my sis? amazing, she woke up the next morning, and promptly asked for a cigarett, and a beer ....... I still consider her brain dead .......:Angel:

Native American Church? My brother says that is a contridiction in terms, ...... me I don't know ....
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Old 03-22-2003, 07:51 PM   #7
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Well, personally, I am not a member of the Church, but my family members are and are quite immersed in the Church. I also have a lot of friends here in Vancouver who are also involved with the Church. Even though I am not a member of the NAC, the people that I know that are (family included) have strong beliefs and are overall nice people. I think that if a Church gives you peace of mind, then good for them. I know that the Church has been a great thing for those friends who have gone through hard times, so who am I to really judge it. There is a couple of books out there on the Native American Church. I read one, and cant remember the title of it, but it gave some insight to the presence of the Native American Church in the US and Canada. One of the statistics it gave was that there are currently a quarter of a million members of the Native American Church. Whoa, that was way more than I thought there would be. I love those Peyote songs too, they are just beautiful.

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Old 03-22-2003, 09:49 PM   #8
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I don't know much about NAC, and I don't think there is a branch of it around my area that I can contact, and the website really doesn't offer information, but I was raised to think that it was New Aged...

My grandfather was a principal medicine man, which does sound hokey, but in the 1970s was known to bless semi-automatic rifles.... - Anywho... He braught me up thinking that if someone had to recieive a vision through Peyote, or be "clean" to dance in a pow wow they need to read about what pow wows are all about, and learn the difference between pow wows, and ceremonies, and espeically the "requirments" for dancing in pow wows, and/or even dancing in ceremonies associated with pow wows, like Feather Ceremonies, or certain songs/prayers..... Yada yada yada...

So I just don't know anything about it. I can't be for nor against it. - I was taught not to think much of it though.

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Old 03-24-2003, 10:38 AM   #9
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Can someone give me a quick run down of what this Church is all about? Thanks!!
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Old 03-24-2003, 07:15 PM   #10
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yeah , they have a shaker church near white swan... i always wondereed what that was....
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Old 03-24-2003, 07:17 PM   #11
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hey tsint????why is the native american church a contradiction???
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Old 03-25-2003, 03:37 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally posted by powwow_lovers
yeah , they have a shaker church near white swan... i always wondereed what that was....
If you ever hear a powwow's opening prayer starting out with an elder ringing a handbell, and then singing a sacred song accompanied by a somewhat Catholic-influenced English phrases and genuflection ("crossing oneself") ===>> that is Shaker prayer. Very big in the Pacific Northwest tribes, but especially over here in Coastal country.

Not to be confused with NAC, just brought it up a few posts ago as an incidental.
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Old 03-25-2003, 02:36 PM   #13
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If you have never been apart of the church... you have no right in speaking of it. And just as with any religion ... you cannot learn all that is needed to know from books. OK? :agree?:
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Old 03-25-2003, 04:40 PM   #14
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Quote:
It's got a heavy Christian influence, they use the bible sometimes, pray and mention Jesus, or Christ alot. They sing songs on a small water drum, very fast and somewhat hypnotic, they partake of the "medicine"......peyote, it's a sacrement, even though it's a hallucinogen.
This is what I am speaking of.. people making statements like these when they have never attended a meeting.
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Old 03-25-2003, 06:41 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally posted by Mato Winyan
If you have never been apart of the church... you have no right in speaking of it. And just as with any religion ... you cannot learn all that is needed to know from books. OK? :agree?:
I agree. I was identifying some of the traditions people often see at powwows in the Pacific Northwest, since alot of the elders called upon to lead the opening prayers are Shaker church members.

However, It was my fault that the Indian Shaker Church and the Native American Church seem to have become confused with one another in this discussion. I do know that the Shakers are somewhat public about their faith and their history. OK, that's obviously enough of my own words, the Shaker church WAS founded at Squaxin Island by John Slocum, and here is the Indian Shaker Church page of official website for the Squaxin Island Tribe:

http://www.squaxinisland.org/pages/m...er/shaker.html
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Old 03-25-2003, 06:46 PM   #16
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I've been involved w/the native american church and kickapoo traditional. I'm probably goin to a meeting sometime soon w/my dad. :)
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Old 03-25-2003, 11:39 PM   #17
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Wakalapi:

:D If ya notice I was talking to someone else and then they decided to delete all of their posts so it makes it somewhat confuseing.... You can see a quote from them that I answered. That should help you with what I was talking about..
They also asked the difference in the two Shaker religions. And they believed that the old one has since passed away and wanted to know if that was the one you were talking about...
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Old 03-25-2003, 11:56 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally posted by Wakalapi
If you ever hear a powwow's opening prayer starting out with an elder ringing a handbell, and then singing a sacred song accompanied by a somewhat Catholic-influenced English phrases and genuflection ("crossing oneself") ===>> that is Shaker prayer. Very big in the Pacific Northwest tribes, but especially over here in Coastal country.

Not to be confused with NAC, just brought it up a few posts ago as an incidental.
okay like Pearl Samaripas prayers...is it the same as the seven drums ?
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Old 03-26-2003, 03:57 AM   #19
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Mato :D I know, but in case others might need to know.... :Chatter


Quote:
Originally posted by powwow_lovers
okay like Pearl Samaripas prayers...is it the same as the seven drums ?
I know two or three people, that know people that are involved somehow with the seven drums. Maybe one of the people that I know, are involved, themselves. They've rattled off leadership names before, but I honestly don't remember. I have no idea if they are related in any way to the Indian Shaker Church.
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Old 03-26-2003, 08:27 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally posted by Mato Winyan
If you have never been apart of the church... you have no right in speaking of it. And just as with any religion ... you cannot learn all that is needed to know from books. OK? :agree?:
Mato, first of all, let me clarify, I did not learn everything I know about the Native American Church from a book! I read that book to give me insight on the legal battles the Church has faced in America because I am a law student. For the average person who is curious about the Church, it is a good starting point. Second of all, dont dare presume I dont have the right to talk about the Church my family belongs to. Who are you to tell me what I may speak of or not. I have not said anything untoward about the Church or the teachings of the Church itself. I suggest you think twice before you censor people. Remember, this is a thread open for discussion. People are curious and I merely suggested for those who do not have access to learn about it from a member first hand, they can at least start somewhere by picking up a book. Sheesh.

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