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Mato Winyan 10-19-2001 09:14 PM

God didn't need a commitee... but Jesus had his discipiles!! :Angel2





Seriously you do need good leadership or you just have caos and confusion. I agree we could and should be able to rely on volunteers. But we know also that good intentions can take us down a certain road.
While there are a lot of people that will claim things should be done in a "traditional" way and keep money and leadership out of it, I for one don't see it working in todays world.
I've been on a powwow commitee. When the powwow is gong on.......POOF.....the volunteers vanish!!:eek: When clean up is needed.... POOF.. they're gone. Some one has to make sure people are doing what they say they will, or be willing to fill in for them.:rolleyes:
I do like the idea of volunteer drums and singers, MC and etc. I do think that could work.
Also, getting the donations COULD work. It would take some leg work but people like to help out if they can benifit (ie. publicity, etc.).
I believe it can be done, we just need the people backing this with more than just talk.:D

Mato Winyan 10-19-2001 09:27 PM

P.S. Yes, the purpose I had in mind was for people to get together to have a fun time meeting people of a like mind who share the love of the circle of life as we know it on this board, the dance circle.
The one that originally posted about the numbers, posted a second time about name tags. Contesting was not a part of the original idea.

This is just an idea at this point. I for one enjoy people and I enjoy the powwows.
If you don't share my love and my enthusiasm then please, feel free to ignore this whole topic. No offense taken.
Otherwise, DON'T STEP ON MY MOCCASINS!! :Yell :( :rolleyes:

Mato Winyan 10-19-2001 10:07 PM

I don't want this to become a "thing" between us I-Joe.
You have alot of valid points. No, I never meant to suggest that anyone, male..female..or otherwise would get paid.
I agree 100% about the ball/ovary theory. OK? We agree.
I would love that everyone would have your out look and sense of responsibility. I'm just saying I've seen otherwise. I'm willing to put my self in this because I believe in it. I will be a gopher. I never ONCE suggested I head this or be the say all or end all. I said I would help all I could to bring this into being!!! I'll stand by that too.
Now can we call a truse???:confused:



Also, Jesus was not defeated...he rose against the adversities in His life!!:Angel2

Okwataga 10-21-2001 02:14 PM

Look Mato... I did not say to compete in dancing, i suggested that for those of us that are from .com to have some kind of tag instead of number or whatever so we can go oh hey your mato... or hey your ayita16, now we have a face to go with the cybertype.
And truly a volunteer pow wow or gathering can be done, everyone is already starting to cause problems, jsut pick a place(maybe donated space) say here where, when and people show up. Look the other guy said no head staff, get an m.c. volunteer, drum groups volunteer hey we've got it going. So I guess its up to the webmaster?

Mato Winyan 10-21-2001 04:52 PM

Delta:
(in a calm quiet tone I am going to try to clear a couple of things I FEEL were misunderstood)

I never suggested you wanted this to be a contest dance. If you read the posts I Joe mentioned contests, and rightly so was against the idea. I was taking up for you and saying you DID NOT mention contests, and in a second post you mentioned name tags. I agree with that idea. I also agree a volunteer system COULD work. It would take time and effort as well as dedication.



Now here are the last thoughts I have on this matter for now.

Does everyone notice when they come to this topic that it has been viewed over 350 times and only 20 some people have chosen to post? Something tells me they see a problem with the idea, or maybe are totally uninterested. That is OK.

I see there is a problem. So let's forget the powwow thing for now. Maybe we can plan a big get together at different powwows that are already in place. Get people to sponsor this. I was thinking along the lines of one to start. I thought of the National Powwow since it would probably be the one time most people would be in one place. No drums needed or others (MC etc.) It's just a thought. By no means am I saying this is the way it HAS to be or even SHOULD be. I'm saying it's a thought!!
I hope this will clear up some hard feelings and confusion on the matter. It was NOT my intent. I just want to meet you all and have a good time doing it!
Mato Winyan :)

Paul G 10-21-2001 05:40 PM

Actually I was already working on that. And I like the idea of a PowWows.com Pow Wow, but not now.

I'll post more information about a possible gathering at National soon.

thanks

Okwataga 10-22-2001 03:12 PM

Hey Mato,
No offense was taken, I just wanted to clear up my end of the conversation:Cooler
But this is a good idea, hopefully one day it will come to be:clap:

eagle_clan1017 10-22-2001 07:10 PM

Wyat......I've been to that powwow at Mattoon......it was the cheapest one I've ever been to. I went because some of my family was on head staff......felt like I was in a freak show, but the highlight of my weekend was when I got my tattoo.....it was worth all of the cheesiness.:devil

The Rock 10-23-2001 12:29 AM

There's a lot of debating going on, but we're not getting anywhere so I'll offer a suggestion and see how constructive I can be :D

It's great to have the idea to put on a pow-wow run completely without money, but in this forum with people being from practically anywhere it wouldn't work. There's lots of dancers and singers on here sure, but just like with any other pow-wow you gotta give them a reason to travel (which costs $$ btw and inevitably is how lots of dancers get from place to place). In other words why would someone go to a dance in anywhere USA/Canada when they can stay close to home for the same reason (to dance/sing) where they know what kind of music they're gonna dance to and where they know lots of people and can expect to see lots of old friends return.

A powwows.com pow-wow would be an INTERTRIBAL event, not a tribal one so a committee, a good host drum...that's all needed.

So here comes my suggestion.

With the right leadership (and I wish I was that person, but I'm not) anyone can put on a good pow-wow as long as they really know what they're doing. To save money without diminishing the quality of the dance (and also after a suitable place could be decided on) I'd say the committee shouldn't put their emphasis on dance contest. Have specials set up in advance (if there's people on here willing to get together and sponsor dance specials....also money doesn't necessarily have to be a prize in a dance special) so the dancers will show and really high step. The committee should put it's efforts into a good MC and host drum and if the pow-wow were to sponsor a contest I'd say let it be the singing contest. This would draw drum groups and give the dance specials a good choice of who they would want to sing for their specials. Would defray the costs of singers travelling with full crews hours and hours and make sure they are taken care of.

If any of you were at Sisseton this year I'm lookin' more along that line, but I realize 5000 bucks with 5 places isn't easy to come up with, but enough to make sure the singers can eat for the weekend would work fine......anything more would be purely a bonus and would only help the cause.

At the very least offer a drum split just to make sure they can cover the expense of bringing their crew there.

Just a few cents to start some thinkin'....hope i'm helpin'

Rock

Smokin' Ace 10-23-2001 09:38 AM

Good ideas
 
I think all these suggestions are good ones. I look forward to being able to help out however I can. I think this pow-wow would be an exciting one, getting all these faces put to names (several people will probably be disappointed when they meet the faces behind the names - hehe :D).

I def think there should be host drum and drum contest - and an MC. These monies could be raised by fund raisers or a large donation from one of our members here (hint, hint :Naughty ) or several members who want to see it happen. We have enuff people on this board to help make this happen.

Now, it is not going to happen overnight, but I truly feel we are moving in the right direction.

People, this is how some of the best pow-wows began in planning!! Hey, you're all now part of the committee!!! Yippee hoo!!! How do you feel?? :p

Smokin' Ace 10-23-2001 12:26 PM

What happened to this board having a sense of humor??? :p

Ok - Mr. Injun Joe - please tell me sir about the conflict of interest.

Get you pencils ready, boys and girls - this is Pow-wow Politics 101. :D

It's all good.

Ayita16 10-23-2001 01:54 PM

Hey everyone that powwow sounds so kool we could have one in the east and one out west so all the people won't have to travel so far. and i agree with delta we could wear name tags i mean how cool would that be??? I think it should be tradtional just everyone come together talk eat frybread, and dance! Did i mention have tons of fun!! I would love to meet all of ya'll! Ya'lll could have it at stone mountain. Because its tradtional ground and for the east coast it is pretty easy to get too!
Well those are my opinions
~Ayita~:Angel2 :Cry :NoNo :JawDrop
keep it real

native girl 4 eva

Smokin' Ace 10-24-2001 01:11 AM

Hey Injun Joe - in response to your post, sir:

No because I never suggested the group that I am closest to to be host, sir. I am a part of KTNJ, but I have family on Stoney Creek, Red Wolf, Secret Hill Singers, and frens on many other drums across this great land. I just thought it would be a good idea, to have a drum contest, and if you read the post, it also said that I would be willing to help with this event - with contacts, etc.

I am trying to be a good community player, sir. And this is just a preliminary idea, right?

It's just a question - no ill will intended - just am offering to help out. That's all.

ghostrider 10-24-2001 12:18 PM

Powwow Ideas
 
It would be a good thing to have one. 1 thing to remember,that some may not be thinking about is something like this you just don't plan in a couple of days. Takes time,money,and a place to do it. I know I could do my part to help.

Would be nice to see everybody pull together on this if it could be arranged.:cool:

[]FlyByNyte[] 11-01-2001 06:44 PM

i kinda like the whole powwow idea....an MC, a Drum, and Head Dancers is all that is needed...
i am sure that with all the peeps on this board it could be covered...without monies promised i am sure...i mean...if needed i would bring a drum quick if asked...that is no biggie...money should never be an issue when singing or dancing u know....just my 2cents...heck i will even dance there...hehe

Tvskekee 11-02-2001 09:50 AM

Count me in, sounds like it coudl be fun:)

FAITH 11-02-2001 09:05 PM

:34: :Thinking :Thumbs

Big Chocolate Thunder 11-03-2001 01:12 AM

This whole world is about money. Nowadays, no one can do anything without money. I know you can enjoy a sunset but will that fill your belly?? NO. This site was started with money to either make money or break even. I am not sure how these website things work but I know they cost money to start and maintain. I think it would be a very good idea for Pow-wows.com to just host a competition pow-wow in the normal sense. Great publicity. That would be a marketers dream. Why do you think casino's host pow-wows?? It is to advertise.
Oh yeah, Injun Joe doesn't have to go if he doesn't want too.
This pow-wow will be for "fake" indians who dance for money!!
SHEESH!!!!!!!
Relax buddy!!

Big Cocolate Thunder

"Without struggle, there is no progress" - F.D.

Smokin' Ace 11-03-2001 12:34 PM

I agree with you Big Chocolate Thunder. Altho it would be a great lovely thing for a drum or MC to say to you, I would like to volunteer my time for this event, but as a person that has coordinated many pow-wows, and been a consultant for many more, I think you come out better in the end to choose who you would like to MC and choose your own quality drum and offer them money - it may not be a whole lot, but that's a good base to any pow-wow, choosing a good MC and host drum. And head dancers as well. Because whoever the head staff/organization staff will be who coordinates, will be held responsible for those persons actions and performance abilities. You can believe that. :p

A competition pow-wow for powwows.com would be a huge promo thing - Paul, you gotta know that, right? All these people that have come together over the internet - you think they would travel to this pow-wow, for the love??? If they are independently wealthy, yes, by all means. If not, they might not be able to.

Now, before all you traditionalists start attacking me - "We do this for our people" and "If you sing for the right reasons..." logic, I am just offering suggestions, k?

If people are totally against a comp. pow-wow, then let's coordinate and get a few sponsors. If you can get a few good sponsors, then you can get a good base to start.

And people, please don't misunderstand me. But without money, pow-wows would not happen. You have to have some money to begin to coordinate an event such as a pow-wow, even the smallest one. Alot of pow-wows make their money from selling vendor space. Alot have raffles, drawings, etc. Some base their income solely on gate revenues. The dancers and drummers are charged a fee to dance or sing.

And I don't know about ya'll, but if I were to imagine a pow-wows.com pow-wow, I am thinking big - big enuff to get all of us under one roof, plus all of our millions (and millions) of fans. :)

If you want something donated, find a location that can house such a pow-wow and ask them to donate it to you for a week, including the insurance. Or if you want an outside event, find a big space and ask a tent company to donate a huge tent. Or a fairgrounds location would be the bomb. But what many will find, is that this is a business, and this is how many people make their money, hosting special events.

We are still in the discussing phase of this ...right? So, just offering my opinions, and sorry for rambling. Just trying to help.

InjunJoe 11-04-2001 12:13 AM

Interesting
 
Mrs. Ace, I understand what you are saying and I take your comments as just discussion and suggestion. Nothing wrong with that.

However, I must say all this is beginning to sound like another BIG powwow with highly paid "powwow staff" and big prize money for drums and some dancers. I mean, sheesh, (yeah, I like that expression) we already have Denver March, GON, Red Earth, Schemitzun, Richmond, and some other large, commercial powwows. Why bother with another one, except to ensure that some people have another opportunity to make some money?

I originally suggested breaking out of the paradigm (substitute "rut" if you like) and producing a powwow where money was not the focus to test the mettle of all these people that go around spouting off "I don't dance for money," and "We sing and drum for the right reasons," and "I dance for my people and tradition," and "It's not about money," etc.

In the past ten years, I have never profitted one single dime or dollar from the several powwows I have helped organize or conduct. I am not a wealthy person. I suspect there are people sitting on KTNJr or Stoney Creek or Southern Suns that make more money at their regular jobs than I do. I know that's true for some people on Southern Suns. And yet, I have traveled literally thousands of miles over the past several years to attend and enjoy powwows, and nobody paid me to do it. If I could afford it in time and money, then I went. If I couldn't afford it in time or money, I stayed home. Simple as that.

So, my premise was to see if people would put THEIR money where their mouths are by attending a powwow where there were no sizable salaries for MCs or head dancers or arena directors, and no money offered dancers or even drums. Yes, I have been to powwows that were totally volunteer. They are called community powwows and they are still held in the Mid-West, and some of them are quite large. But, no one is paid. There are no contests. There is no prize money. These powwows are held for totally different reasons other than competition and money.

If the majority of people here, and in general, are still in the contest powwow rut, then so be it, but polls have been conducted in the recent past in which the majority of respondents said they prefer non-competition powwows. So go figure.

Mrs. Ace, I agree with you that "this is how many people make their money." I have certainly seen that here on the East Coast this past year. There is really nothing wrong with that, but I do get turned off when some of these monied winners proclaim they dance for reasons other than the prize money. Yeah, right. Then why don't these same people dance or drum at non-contest powwows? I don't see them doing it, unless they are hired as head dancers or host drums. I don't appreciate the hypocracy of it. I can respect anyone who is up-front and says, "Yeah, I dance for the bucks." At least they are being honest.

Big Chocolate Thunder, you are right. If PW.com throws a big commercial contest powwow like everyone else is trying to do, I will not be interested in attending. Why bother? Been there, done that, seen that.

Someone told me that PW.com already has a powwow. They said it's call the AICA Powwow in Statesville, NC. From what they said, I don't think I want to go to that one either.

Back to contest powwows, check out my latest post on the Richmond, VA powwow thread.


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