Register Groups Members List Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Forum Home - Go Back > PowWows.com Forum Archives > Archives Should songs be sold? Should songs be sold?

LinkBack Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 02-15-2003, 12:07 PM   #1
Lovin' life,
 
Mato Winyan's Avatar
 
User InfoThanks / Tagging InfoGifts / Achievements / AwardsvBActivity Stats
Mato Winyan has a reputation beyond reputeMato Winyan has a reputation beyond repute
Mato Winyan has a reputation beyond reputeMato Winyan has a reputation beyond reputeMato Winyan has a reputation beyond reputeMato Winyan has a reputation beyond reputeMato Winyan has a reputation beyond reputeMato Winyan has a reputation beyond reputeMato Winyan has a reputation beyond reputeMato Winyan has a reputation beyond reputeMato Winyan has a reputation beyond reputeMato Winyan has a reputation beyond reputeMato Winyan has a reputation beyond reputeMato Winyan has a reputation beyond reputeMato Winyan has a reputation beyond reputeMato Winyan has a reputation beyond reputeMato Winyan has a reputation beyond reputeMato Winyan has a reputation beyond reputeMato Winyan has a reputation beyond reputeMato Winyan has a reputation beyond repute
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: Indiana
Posts: 5,450
Blog Entries: 4
Credits: 260.00
Savings: 1.00
Should songs be sold?

Just wondering what everyone thinks of ceremonial songs(sundance, peyote, inipi, yuwipi, hanblechia, pipe) being sold on cd's and cassettes.
__________________
"We see it as a desecration not only of a mountain but of our way of life. This is a genocidal issue to us. If they kill this mountain, they kill our way of life." ~Debra White Plume
Mato Winyan is offline   Share with Facebook
Old 02-15-2003, 12:24 PM   #2
Pow Wow Committee
 
tigger's Avatar
 
User InfoThanks / Tagging InfoGifts / Achievements / AwardsvBActivity Stats
tigger has a reputation beyond repute
tigger has a reputation beyond reputetigger has a reputation beyond reputetigger has a reputation beyond reputetigger has a reputation beyond reputetigger has a reputation beyond reputetigger has a reputation beyond reputetigger has a reputation beyond reputetigger has a reputation beyond reputetigger has a reputation beyond reputetigger has a reputation beyond reputetigger has a reputation beyond reputetigger has a reputation beyond repute
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: powwows.com
Posts: 6,150
Credits: 250.00
Savings: 0.00
i don't think that they should be sold.
tigger is offline   Share with Facebook
Old 02-15-2003, 01:23 PM   #3
hello
 
superndngyrl's Avatar
 
Items Present
User InfoThanks / Tagging InfoGifts / Achievements / AwardsvBActivity Stats
superndngyrl has a reputation beyond repute
superndngyrl has a reputation beyond reputesuperndngyrl has a reputation beyond reputesuperndngyrl has a reputation beyond reputesuperndngyrl has a reputation beyond reputesuperndngyrl has a reputation beyond reputesuperndngyrl has a reputation beyond reputesuperndngyrl has a reputation beyond reputesuperndngyrl has a reputation beyond reputesuperndngyrl has a reputation beyond reputesuperndngyrl has a reputation beyond reputesuperndngyrl has a reputation beyond reputesuperndngyrl has a reputation beyond reputesuperndngyrl has a reputation beyond reputesuperndngyrl has a reputation beyond reputesuperndngyrl has a reputation beyond repute
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: in front of the computer
Posts: 4,453
Credits: 1,091.95
Savings: 0.00
so you think people should mass produce em and then just give em away?
superndngyrl is offline   Share with Facebook
Old 02-15-2003, 02:09 PM   #4
Lovin' life,
 
Mato Winyan's Avatar
 
User InfoThanks / Tagging InfoGifts / Achievements / AwardsvBActivity Stats
Mato Winyan has a reputation beyond reputeMato Winyan has a reputation beyond repute
Mato Winyan has a reputation beyond reputeMato Winyan has a reputation beyond reputeMato Winyan has a reputation beyond reputeMato Winyan has a reputation beyond reputeMato Winyan has a reputation beyond reputeMato Winyan has a reputation beyond reputeMato Winyan has a reputation beyond reputeMato Winyan has a reputation beyond reputeMato Winyan has a reputation beyond reputeMato Winyan has a reputation beyond reputeMato Winyan has a reputation beyond reputeMato Winyan has a reputation beyond reputeMato Winyan has a reputation beyond reputeMato Winyan has a reputation beyond reputeMato Winyan has a reputation beyond reputeMato Winyan has a reputation beyond reputeMato Winyan has a reputation beyond reputeMato Winyan has a reputation beyond repute
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: Indiana
Posts: 5,450
Blog Entries: 4
Credits: 260.00
Savings: 1.00
Then maybe the question should be...

Should they be sold, given, traded, and etc?

In other words .. should they be made so readily available to the general population that has no idea of what the songs mean or represent.

Should there be a history and teaching be included with them?

How about a warning label.... singing these songs maybe be a hazard to your health?? :p
__________________
"We see it as a desecration not only of a mountain but of our way of life. This is a genocidal issue to us. If they kill this mountain, they kill our way of life." ~Debra White Plume
Mato Winyan is offline   Share with Facebook
Old 02-15-2003, 02:16 PM   #5
whip cream is better
 
kneegrow_native's Avatar
 
User InfoThanks / Tagging InfoGifts / Achievements / AwardsvBActivity Stats
kneegrow_native has a reputation beyond reputekneegrow_native has a reputation beyond repute
kneegrow_native has a reputation beyond reputekneegrow_native has a reputation beyond reputekneegrow_native has a reputation beyond reputekneegrow_native has a reputation beyond reputekneegrow_native has a reputation beyond reputekneegrow_native has a reputation beyond reputekneegrow_native has a reputation beyond reputekneegrow_native has a reputation beyond reputekneegrow_native has a reputation beyond reputekneegrow_native has a reputation beyond reputekneegrow_native has a reputation beyond reputekneegrow_native has a reputation beyond reputekneegrow_native has a reputation beyond reputekneegrow_native has a reputation beyond reputekneegrow_native has a reputation beyond reputekneegrow_native has a reputation beyond reputekneegrow_native has a reputation beyond reputekneegrow_native has a reputation beyond reputekneegrow_native has a reputation beyond repute
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: In God's Country
Posts: 1,480
Credits: 80.00
Savings: 0.00
This question could be posed a different way:

How would you feel about someone recording prayers and selling them? A lot of these kind of songs are prayers.

If someone in the area that I lived in recorded a CD of Winter dance or Seven Drum songs, it would more than likely be condemned.

Either way you ask the question, to me, it does not feel right.
__________________
It is so sad that a family can torn apart by something as simple as a wild pack of dogs.
kneegrow_native is offline   Share with Facebook
Old 02-15-2003, 02:38 PM   #6
homalosa
Guest
 
User InfoThanks / Tagging InfoGifts / Achievements / AwardsvBActivity Stats
Posts: n/a
I just got off the phone with the RedCloud family and as I said in the other post about ceremonial songs, this kind of thing isn't approved. The elder also said that there are people going around claiming to be medicine people and AIM members when they're not. And I agree with Knee-grow Native, how can you market, sell and buy a prayer? There are so many intertribal and contest songs that should suffice those who want to hear. The other thing is this, if sundance songs can be sold to anyone, then anyone should be allowed to attend sundance, and we know that isn't possible.
  Share with Facebook
Old 02-15-2003, 03:15 PM   #7
Artist and Entrepreneur
 
warhoop's Avatar
 
User InfoThanks / Tagging InfoGifts / Achievements / AwardsvBActivity Stats
warhoop is a jewel in the rough
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Beartown
Posts: 72
Credits: 0.00
Savings: 0.00
I have to agree with kneegrow native and homalosa. These songs(prayers) are passed down from generation to generation. thats the way it should be to the right kind of people though. Ones who will honor and respect these songs and not try to market them.
warhoop is offline   Share with Facebook
Old 02-16-2003, 02:48 AM   #8
Lovin' life,
 
Mato Winyan's Avatar
 
User InfoThanks / Tagging InfoGifts / Achievements / AwardsvBActivity Stats
Mato Winyan has a reputation beyond reputeMato Winyan has a reputation beyond repute
Mato Winyan has a reputation beyond reputeMato Winyan has a reputation beyond reputeMato Winyan has a reputation beyond reputeMato Winyan has a reputation beyond reputeMato Winyan has a reputation beyond reputeMato Winyan has a reputation beyond reputeMato Winyan has a reputation beyond reputeMato Winyan has a reputation beyond reputeMato Winyan has a reputation beyond reputeMato Winyan has a reputation beyond reputeMato Winyan has a reputation beyond reputeMato Winyan has a reputation beyond reputeMato Winyan has a reputation beyond reputeMato Winyan has a reputation beyond reputeMato Winyan has a reputation beyond reputeMato Winyan has a reputation beyond reputeMato Winyan has a reputation beyond reputeMato Winyan has a reputation beyond repute
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: Indiana
Posts: 5,450
Blog Entries: 4
Credits: 260.00
Savings: 1.00
Quote:
Originally posted by homalosa
The other thing is this, if sundance songs can be sold to anyone, then anyone should be allowed to attend sundance, and we know that isn't possible.
Sure it is.. check this out...these are the people I have been talking about..



http://www.fs.fed.us/r9/hoosier/recr...e_ceremony.htm
__________________
"We see it as a desecration not only of a mountain but of our way of life. This is a genocidal issue to us. If they kill this mountain, they kill our way of life." ~Debra White Plume
Mato Winyan is offline   Share with Facebook
Old 02-16-2003, 03:39 AM   #9
homalosa
Guest
 
User InfoThanks / Tagging InfoGifts / Achievements / AwardsvBActivity Stats
Posts: n/a
All I can say is umf, umf, umf. Are we to assume that these McCulloughs are Lakota? yeah right.
  Share with Facebook
Old 02-16-2003, 04:00 AM   #10
Professional Pretzel
 
Dawg Stylez's Avatar
 
User InfoThanks / Tagging InfoGifts / Achievements / AwardsvBActivity Stats
Dawg Stylez has a reputation beyond reputeDawg Stylez has a reputation beyond reputeDawg Stylez has a reputation beyond reputeDawg Stylez has a reputation beyond reputeDawg Stylez has a reputation beyond reputeDawg Stylez has a reputation beyond reputeDawg Stylez has a reputation beyond reputeDawg Stylez has a reputation beyond reputeDawg Stylez has a reputation beyond reputeDawg Stylez has a reputation beyond reputeDawg Stylez has a reputation beyond reputeDawg Stylez has a reputation beyond reputeDawg Stylez has a reputation beyond reputeDawg Stylez has a reputation beyond reputeDawg Stylez has a reputation beyond reputeDawg Stylez has a reputation beyond reputeDawg Stylez has a reputation beyond reputeDawg Stylez has a reputation beyond reputeDawg Stylez has a reputation beyond reputeDawg Stylez has a reputation beyond repute
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: at my desk at work
Posts: 1,579
Credits: 0.00
Savings: 0.00
Unhappy

Interesting questions that you pose in this and your other post. Initially the answer is no way! But the more comlplicated answer is "not directly." There is a way that such songs are passed along, in fact any song, and eachperson that learns it should have permission to sing it, and only use the song in the correct setting. When somone "gives" permission to sing a song, it is usually acceptable to " give"something in return. But not in the sense of "paying" for the song. Even if you have permission to sing something, you do not have ownership of the song. o in that sense, you are not paying for the song. You give a "gift" in return for the permission to sing that song.
__________________
J~Dawg - the one and only!!!
In NDN Paradise!!!
Dawg Stylez is offline   Share with Facebook
Old 02-16-2003, 12:20 PM   #11
hello
 
superndngyrl's Avatar
 
Items Present
User InfoThanks / Tagging InfoGifts / Achievements / AwardsvBActivity Stats
superndngyrl has a reputation beyond repute
superndngyrl has a reputation beyond reputesuperndngyrl has a reputation beyond reputesuperndngyrl has a reputation beyond reputesuperndngyrl has a reputation beyond reputesuperndngyrl has a reputation beyond reputesuperndngyrl has a reputation beyond reputesuperndngyrl has a reputation beyond reputesuperndngyrl has a reputation beyond reputesuperndngyrl has a reputation beyond reputesuperndngyrl has a reputation beyond reputesuperndngyrl has a reputation beyond reputesuperndngyrl has a reputation beyond reputesuperndngyrl has a reputation beyond reputesuperndngyrl has a reputation beyond reputesuperndngyrl has a reputation beyond repute
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: in front of the computer
Posts: 4,453
Credits: 1,091.95
Savings: 0.00
did u see that on dances with wolves? Good trade!
superndngyrl is offline   Share with Facebook
Old 02-16-2003, 12:50 PM   #12
Senior Dancer
 
zeph's Avatar
 
User InfoThanks / Tagging InfoGifts / Achievements / AwardsvBActivity Stats
zeph has a reputation beyond reputezeph has a reputation beyond reputezeph has a reputation beyond reputezeph has a reputation beyond reputezeph has a reputation beyond reputezeph has a reputation beyond reputezeph has a reputation beyond reputezeph has a reputation beyond reputezeph has a reputation beyond reputezeph has a reputation beyond reputezeph has a reputation beyond reputezeph has a reputation beyond reputezeph has a reputation beyond reputezeph has a reputation beyond reputezeph has a reputation beyond reputezeph has a reputation beyond reputezeph has a reputation beyond reputezeph has a reputation beyond reputezeph has a reputation beyond reputezeph has a reputation beyond reputezeph has a reputation beyond repute
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: New Mexico
Posts: 769
Credits: 0.00
Savings: 0.00
lmao super! :Chatter
__________________
- zeph
zeph is offline   Share with Facebook
Old 02-16-2003, 08:18 PM   #13
old school fool
 
RainyDaze49's Avatar
 
Items Change User Title
User InfoThanks / Tagging InfoGifts / Achievements / AwardsvBActivity Stats
RainyDaze49 has a reputation beyond reputeRainyDaze49 has a reputation beyond repute
RainyDaze49 has a reputation beyond reputeRainyDaze49 has a reputation beyond reputeRainyDaze49 has a reputation beyond reputeRainyDaze49 has a reputation beyond reputeRainyDaze49 has a reputation beyond reputeRainyDaze49 has a reputation beyond reputeRainyDaze49 has a reputation beyond reputeRainyDaze49 has a reputation beyond reputeRainyDaze49 has a reputation beyond reputeRainyDaze49 has a reputation beyond reputeRainyDaze49 has a reputation beyond reputeRainyDaze49 has a reputation beyond reputeRainyDaze49 has a reputation beyond reputeRainyDaze49 has a reputation beyond reputeRainyDaze49 has a reputation beyond reputeRainyDaze49 has a reputation beyond reputeRainyDaze49 has a reputation beyond reputeRainyDaze49 has a reputation beyond repute
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: 505
Posts: 1,025
Credits: 748.00
Savings: 0.00
Absolutely not! *nervously glances at her CD collection*:eyes116:
__________________
..::First ever 2002-2003 Powwows.com Princess::..
~*~*~* The original POWWOWCHIC49 *~*~*~
*~*JINGLE IT*~*
RainyDaze49 is offline   Share with Facebook
Old 02-16-2003, 08:54 PM   #14
Tiny Tot Dancer
 
_RoBbY_'s Avatar
 
User InfoThanks / Tagging InfoGifts / Achievements / AwardsvBActivity Stats
_RoBbY_ is an unknown quantity at this point
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Fort Worth, Texas
Posts: 27
Credits: 0.00
Savings: 0.00
:Chatter

I'd have to say I'm in the same boat as the Senica Beauty... lol - I'd have to do one hell-of-a-sweat fit it's "wrong" to buy, sell, trade, or give away recordings of Peyote, Sundance, Inipi, and other mainly tribal religious music...

I also have a lot of stuff that is American Indian Church hymns. A lot of the 5 Nations and others have doen Christian renditions of songs, or made Christian based Native American styled songs.

I guess it would be a question of what religion, or faith is "right?"

- Robby

I record plenty of Peyote gourd songs at the gourds they have around my area... They don't really have a problem with it, as far as I know...
__________________
"It is strictly believed and understood by the Sioux that a child is the greatest gift from Wankan Tanka, in response to many devout prayers, sacrifices, and promises. Therefore the child is considered "sent by Wankan Tanka," through some element--namely the element of human nature." - Robert Higheagle, Lakota Sioux -

-- If we don't teach our children about our culture and traditions, that we feel are being stolen from us daily, then at present we are just as guitly of the offense.
_RoBbY_ is offline   Share with Facebook
Old 02-19-2003, 11:40 AM   #15
hidatsachic24
Guest
 
User InfoThanks / Tagging InfoGifts / Achievements / AwardsvBActivity Stats
Posts: n/a
absolutely nope...people who sell them dont have much respect
for tradition...now traded from one drum to the other is great but on cd/cassette no way cuz yar still making money off the songs...
songs should be treated in a tradish manner not bought and sold ..
  Share with Facebook
Old 02-19-2003, 11:42 AM   #16
Leg Wrestling Champ!
 
rkbtmeyb's Avatar
 
User InfoThanks / Tagging InfoGifts / Achievements / AwardsvBActivity Stats
rkbtmeyb has a reputation beyond repute
rkbtmeyb has a reputation beyond reputerkbtmeyb has a reputation beyond reputerkbtmeyb has a reputation beyond reputerkbtmeyb has a reputation beyond reputerkbtmeyb has a reputation beyond reputerkbtmeyb has a reputation beyond reputerkbtmeyb has a reputation beyond reputerkbtmeyb has a reputation beyond reputerkbtmeyb has a reputation beyond reputerkbtmeyb has a reputation beyond reputerkbtmeyb has a reputation beyond reputerkbtmeyb has a reputation beyond reputerkbtmeyb has a reputation beyond repute
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: just fine where im at
Posts: 4,820
Credits: 224.30
Savings: 0.00
to be told not sold
__________________
Mens inhumanity to each other is surpassed ONLY by what women do to each other.
<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>
Quote: "I blame it on my youngnessness..." BTH
DEATH TO ALL LURKERS!!!! ME
rkbtmeyb is offline   Share with Facebook
Old 02-19-2003, 11:47 AM   #17
Senior Dancer
 
zeph's Avatar
 
User InfoThanks / Tagging InfoGifts / Achievements / AwardsvBActivity Stats
zeph has a reputation beyond reputezeph has a reputation beyond reputezeph has a reputation beyond reputezeph has a reputation beyond reputezeph has a reputation beyond reputezeph has a reputation beyond reputezeph has a reputation beyond reputezeph has a reputation beyond reputezeph has a reputation beyond reputezeph has a reputation beyond reputezeph has a reputation beyond reputezeph has a reputation beyond reputezeph has a reputation beyond reputezeph has a reputation beyond reputezeph has a reputation beyond reputezeph has a reputation beyond reputezeph has a reputation beyond reputezeph has a reputation beyond reputezeph has a reputation beyond reputezeph has a reputation beyond reputezeph has a reputation beyond repute
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: New Mexico
Posts: 769
Credits: 0.00
Savings: 0.00
Quote:
songs should be treated in a tradish manner not bought and sold ..
__________________
- zeph
zeph is offline   Share with Facebook
Old 02-19-2003, 01:10 PM   #18
hidatsachic24
Guest
 
User InfoThanks / Tagging InfoGifts / Achievements / AwardsvBActivity Stats
Posts: n/a
zeph,
why confused look...
thats the way i was taught that its okay for one drum to trade song with another but only certain songs...thats what i mean in a tradish manner...its not okay to record certain songs and its not okay to make money off of certain songs...personal gain thats what i call it when you make money off of songs..
  Share with Facebook
Old 02-19-2003, 02:24 PM   #19
Oglalawoman
 
User InfoThanks / Tagging InfoGifts / Achievements / AwardsvBActivity Stats
Tess Lone Elk is an unknown quantity at this point
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: So. California
Posts: 6
Credits: 140.00
Savings: 0.00
Not only are these songs prayers, and not only do most of these songs belong to certain families, but these songs were a gift from the Creator and how dare some try to profit from this. My vote: NO! They MUST be learned and handed down, if they are not, then their time of use is no more and so be it.
__________________
Lone Elk Creations, Unique Lakota Made Items
http://www.loneelkcreations.com
Tess Lone Elk is offline   Share with Facebook
Old 03-01-2003, 11:29 PM   #20
Lovin' life,
 
Mato Winyan's Avatar
 
User InfoThanks / Tagging InfoGifts / Achievements / AwardsvBActivity Stats
Mato Winyan has a reputation beyond reputeMato Winyan has a reputation beyond repute
Mato Winyan has a reputation beyond reputeMato Winyan has a reputation beyond reputeMato Winyan has a reputation beyond reputeMato Winyan has a reputation beyond reputeMato Winyan has a reputation beyond reputeMato Winyan has a reputation beyond reputeMato Winyan has a reputation beyond reputeMato Winyan has a reputation beyond reputeMato Winyan has a reputation beyond reputeMato Winyan has a reputation beyond reputeMato Winyan has a reputation beyond reputeMato Winyan has a reputation beyond reputeMato Winyan has a reputation beyond reputeMato Winyan has a reputation beyond reputeMato Winyan has a reputation beyond reputeMato Winyan has a reputation beyond reputeMato Winyan has a reputation beyond reputeMato Winyan has a reputation beyond repute
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: Indiana
Posts: 5,450
Blog Entries: 4
Credits: 260.00
Savings: 1.00
Which is worse..

the one sharing these songs so they can be sold...

the one selling them....

the one buying them.....?

Just wondering if there are any thoughts on these.
__________________
"We see it as a desecration not only of a mountain but of our way of life. This is a genocidal issue to us. If they kill this mountain, they kill our way of life." ~Debra White Plume
Mato Winyan is offline   Share with Facebook
Sponsored Links

Bookmarks


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Mustang Songs travelingmocs Gourd Dance 41 01-05-2007 02:37 AM
Wolf Songs CEM Pow Wow Singing 11 10-15-2001 07:52 AM
Kiowa War Mothers Songs CEM Pow Wow Singing 2 04-02-2001 09:29 AM
Gourd Dance songs CrazyInDn Pow Wow Singing 8 03-08-2001 04:20 PM
What Style Songs Do You Sing? BPlenty Pow Wow Singing 28 06-09-2000 10:37 PM

    

Join the online community forum celebrating Native American Culture, Pow Wows, tribes, music, art, and history.

Join PowWows.com Today!

Your Guide to Native American Pow Wows Since 1996

Register For Free

Enjoy the benefits of being a member of PowWows.com!

Join our Native American online community focused on Pow Wow singing, dancing, crafts, Native American music, Native American videos, and more.

Add your Pow Wow to our Calendar

Share your photos and videos

Play games, enter contests, and much more!






New Threads

Pow Wow Calendar Search

 
Month: Year:

Location:
Facebook Profile Images

Videos

Featured Articles

Dance Styles

Crafts

Gallery