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-   -   destroying the myth of aztlan and aztec HOBBYISTS (http://forums.powwows.com/f40/destroying-myth-aztlan-aztec-hobbyists-68613/)

gilisi 09-28-2014 11:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by milehighsalute (Post 1608603)
yeah i had dissected their views....told them the problems with it, they deleted my comments, banned me, called me a sellout and an apple....then dleted whole threads and banned other people who said i was right and thier points were stupid

funny.....that "wasichu studies" guy is a half white half mex guy....has his own page of misinformation and hate

how about that "wasichu butcher" guy....another mexican who uses north american imagery to promote his ignorance and mexican nationalism

I saw that site...those clowns are certifiable. I would be surprised if the extremist views represented there can muster much of a following.

Joe's Dad 09-29-2014 12:31 PM

I'm dumb. What's a 'narco'?

That used to be what they called a 'narcotics officer'.

I'm thinking WTF is a 'narcotics' round dance?????

milehighsalute 09-29-2014 12:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joe's Dad (Post 1608653)
I'm dumb. What's a 'narco'?

That used to be what they called a 'narcotics officer'.

I'm thinking WTF is a 'narcotics' round dance?????

if you have netflix watch a movie called narco cultura.....and then watch the movie el infierno....my mex friends say that stuff is REAL

not saying it has anything to do with aztlanista militant hobbyism......it doesnt as far as i know

Joe's Dad 09-29-2014 12:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by milehighsalute (Post 1608654)
if you have netflix watch a movie called narco cultura.....and then watch the movie el infierno....my mex friends say that stuff is REAL

not saying it has anything to do with aztlanista militant hobbyism......it doesnt as far as i know

I'm also internet challenged. I don't have Netflix. lolo

milehighsalute 09-29-2014 12:50 PM

https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100008087018018

Joe's Dad 09-29-2014 12:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by milehighsalute (Post 1608654)
if you have netflix watch a movie called narco cultura.....and then watch the movie el infierno....my mex friends say that stuff is REAL

not saying it has anything to do with aztlanista militant hobbyism......it doesnt as far as i know

I saw the 'Narco Cultura' trailer on You Tube. Hmmm...I wonder if you gave them obsidian knives instead of guns, would they be considered 'Aztec Warriors'?

I dislike drugs, and the effects it has on families, a lot.

koyoteh 09-30-2014 06:01 PM

unknowing
 
This thread is full of misinformation.
WHat is valid is the anger that some feel when they hear this misinformation.
The listeners do not necessarily know how to filter what they hear, they don't know the history of other nations, and they don't know about all the sub groups that branched off because of it.

THey are unknowing and refuse to admit that they just don't know.

all they would have to do is ask questions about how things developeed to be the way they are now. For other nations AND their own nations.

But instead they jump on the anti mexican bandwagon of U.S. Patriots and Freemasons and create hate pages on FB and block everyone who shows them facts of history they never learned about.
It does'nt seem they want to know.

gilisi 09-30-2014 11:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by koyoteh (Post 1608779)
This thread is full of misinformation.
WHat is valid is the anger that some feel when they hear this misinformation.
The listeners do not necessarily know how to filter what they hear, they don't know the history of other nations, and they don't know about all the sub groups that branched off because of it.

THey are unknowing and refuse to admit that they just don't know.

all they would have to do is ask questions about how things developeed to be the way they are now. For other nations AND their own nations.

But instead they jump on the anti mexican bandwagon of U.S. Patriots and Freemasons and create hate pages on FB and block everyone who shows them facts of history they never learned about.
It does'nt seem they want to know.

First of all you just said that people here don't understand their own history.

Then you said "They are anti-mexican."

Take off your professor's hat and understand that you don't even know who you are talking about here. You just brought an ad hominem argument without contributing to the discussion.

I don't like your user name.

Any valid point you might have made, you have just shot down with your own attitude.

subeeds 10-01-2014 02:41 AM

Before you go jumping in here, where you are a relative newcomer, you might want to put a leash on your blanket generalizations. You don't know any of us or what we know of OUR history. You seem to want to present all these "facts" to us like we are a bunch of idiots. Pontifications around here won't get you too far.

koyoteh 10-01-2014 04:22 PM

what facts?
 
i jumped in after reading everything.

i wanted to see the destruction of the myth.
but so far no one has done it.
**** i like the story of aztlan. but even i can destroy if i want to.
but thats only cause i know the story. I see some flaws in what people like to point out about it. but so far, none of you have even mentioned them.

instead you just talk about people and smack talk as if it was a wrestling match or a war game.
oh yeah, i know many of you are military, ex military and patriots.
yes i know who some of you are and we have met elsewhere before.
and you know me.

but still, the story has not been mentioned at all.

is it because you don't know the story? the myth as you called it?
isn't this about destroying the myth? well mention the myth and get to the destroying already! 3 pages and nothing mentioned except that you don't like the people who you don't like.

c'mon. lets hear you versions of the story.

how detailed will it be?

if you wish to reiterate and cut and paste a mexica-nazis version, it just says that you yourself don't know. Ya don't know enough to see that that mexica nazi does not know themselves. THey are like you. and just don't want to know.

Their own people have talked to them and told them to stop but they also wont listen.

now you guys and the mexica-nazis in one form or another, on either side , actually believe and move around the same bs.
The 'aztlanistas' don't know their own stories.

koyoteh 10-01-2014 04:28 PM

the connected?
 
If you feel the american flag is disrespected....then you are no longer native. and got no right to speak about other natives who want native freedom.

if you were a native who is now christian, you are also no longer native. You have no right to speak about people who are fighting to be connected to their NON CHRISTIAN roots again after the christians took away their identities and culture.

Saluting that flag, joining their armies, believing in that bible, thats traiterous.

koyoteh 10-01-2014 04:34 PM

no idiots or name calling
 
if you feel bad after things i said. then its you who need to reflect.

theres nothing wrong with admitting to your own self something you did not know about.
its not your fault just the same as its not the fault of natives all over who also don't know a lot about each other.

that is something that was done intentionally to all of us.

but what do you do when you hear something you never heard before?

do you get mad at the one sharing? do you stick stubbornly to the misinformation?

or do you open yourself up to the possibility that you were lied to? that you were given misinformation? that others have misinformation?

that maybe overall you may have some truths, but some parts are not true?

do you get mad about it? or learn from it?

koyoteh 10-01-2014 04:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gilisi (Post 1608798)
First of all you just said that people here don't understand their own history.

Then you said "They are anti-mexican."

Take off your professor's hat and understand that you don't even know who you are talking about here. You just brought an ad hominem argument without contributing to the discussion.

I don't like your user name.

Any valid point you might have made, you have just shot down with your own attitude.

man, you quote me , but then say i said things i didn't. whats the point in quoting if you are going to straight lie? we can just look at it and its not true what you said.

but in your response you didn't really say anything except you don't like me. Thats it? thats all you can say?

how bout denying the military, patriotic, freemason parts at least? why didn't you deny that?

if you really wanted to discuss , you would ask me why i would say such things. or to explain if you don't really know what i mean.


we all learned from the same lying history books. we all got raised in their school systems and institutions. we all had to go through the working system for money. and some of you even joined the military.

all these things served to keep us ignorant of each other. and all served to strip us of our own histories and replaced with skewed histories to straight our lies. or skewed histories that pushed us into acceptance.

like accepting that our tribe can only be wawrriors by joining the u.s. military. OR belief in jesus is okay at a traditional ceremony.

craziness.

but thats not everyone i know that.

But what does a lakota know about the plight and experience of 'mexican' natives? 500 years worth of info? WHat does a 'mexican' know about 200 years worth of lakota history?

how is it that some, who are so far away from each other, actually learned about each other? from one another?

yeah that happened. Many lakotas reached out to chicanos. And exchanges were made.

do you know about that? have you met anyone who has been through that?

and not just with lakotas either.

now theres no denying that this took place.

if you disagree with non-chicanos natives, sharing with chicanos, then you all should just say so.

if you do, then you will have to take it up with the ones that did the sharing. many of whom were your own tribal elders.


and ask them WHY THEY DID THIS?




i for one think it was a good thing. ANd i appreciate their help and love for all natives who were lost and confused.

Grits & Beans 10-01-2014 04:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by koyoteh (Post 1608894)
i jumped in after reading everything.

i wanted to see the destruction of the myth.
but so far no one has done it.
**** i like the story of aztlan. but even i can destroy if i want to.
but thats only cause i know the story. I see some flaws in what people like to point out about it. but so far, none of you have even mentioned them.

instead you just talk about people and smack talk as if it was a wrestling match or a war game.
oh yeah, i know many of you are military, ex military and patriots.
yes i know who some of you are and we have met elsewhere before.
and you know me.

but still, the story has not been mentioned at all.

is it because you don't know the story? the myth as you called it?
isn't this about destroying the myth? well mention the myth and get to the destroying already! 3 pages and nothing mentioned except that you don't like the people who you don't like.

c'mon. lets hear you versions of the story.

how detailed will it be?

if you wish to reiterate and cut and paste a mexica-nazis version, it just says that you yourself don't know. Ya don't know enough to see that that mexica nazi does not know themselves. THey are like you. and just don't want to know.

Their own people have talked to them and told them to stop but they also wont listen.

now you guys and the mexica-nazis in one form or another, on either side , actually believe and move around the same bs.
The 'aztlanistas' don't know their own stories.


that's a straight up calling someone out if i ever seen one :lol:

Grits & Beans 10-01-2014 04:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by koyoteh (Post 1608898)
if you feel bad after things i said. then its you who need to reflect.

theres nothing wrong with admitting to your own self something you did not know about.
its not your fault just the same as its not the fault of natives all over who also don't know a lot about each other.

that is something that was done intentionally to all of us.

but what do you do when you hear something you never heard before?

do you get mad at the one sharing? do you stick stubbornly to the misinformation?

or do you open yourself up to the possibility that you were lied to? that you were given misinformation? that others have misinformation?

that maybe overall you may have some truths, but some parts are not true?

do you get mad about it? or learn from it?

i would hit print on this and use it to wipe. that's about it...

koyoteh 10-01-2014 05:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hollywood-NDN -ES/LA (Post 1608456)
Some of them do indeed misappropriate, and I tend to confront them on that when they do, and often they have good intentions so they'll learn. And there are real Indians that'll support them for various reasons, and as long as intentions are good and you confront ignorance and all that's not a problem. It's good to build bridges, not pretend we're one and the same not let ourselves get stepped on but you know open up dialogues, whatever. We get more people genuinely concerned with native issues that's a good thing, they get into their indigenous heritage they become more sympathetic to indigenous issues up here, I've seen it, not as much from the angry rhetoric spitters, but once they learn more.

And let's not pretend that Mexica Movement and like minded organizations are that powerful. I mean I live in the East LA area, just up the street from those Semillas schools, I've taken a Chicano studies class at East LA college, I've never heard any of this southwest is Aztlan bs, not in person, and not even from the more obnoxious ones I've met on the internet. I've seen that Hunab Ku symbol, I've seen nahuatl graffiti but any real negative impact isn't all that visible in my everyday life.

Theres a reason they are not that big and powerful.
and theres a reason you never met the people in person.

its cause we also found them to be fake. we ignored their recruiting and talked against what they were doing. or at least how they went about it.

The MM poeple were against their own peoples efforts to bring back culture. Like dancing. Yes they were against it. Preferring books.

so they got quite and never grew too big. They are a minority in chicano circles.

Now lots of natives have a hard time believing this because they were never here. THey never actually experienced these people either. THey only see the internet propaganda. The hype. The illusions that MM created around their group. They do have some powerful imagery and words.

but really the only thing that ever really stuck was the slogan "not hispanic, not latino" and that initially draws attention. but then after reading everything else after that and interacdting with them, the people just abandon MM. But they still like the slogan " not hispanic, not latino" because that part is true.

Now if people have a problem with the MM people, so do chicanos themselves.
NOw if people have a problem with other sub groups, so do chicanos themselves.

Now if people have a problem with Danza, or Semillas schoools, or security groups, well then they don't know how they developed or why. or they don't care about how they developed or why.
if they dont care, then they would rather people remain ignorant and oppressed as they are not offereing solutions to bring the people into safety and prosperity and identity and good self esteem.

koyoteh 10-01-2014 05:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Grits & Beans (Post 1608901)
that's a straight up calling someone out if i ever seen one :lol:


so no takers?

beyond name calling , smack talking?
c'mon i wanna hear some knowledge, not pro wrestling scripts

koyoteh 10-01-2014 05:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Grits & Beans (Post 1608902)
i would hit print on this and use it to wipe. that's about it...


still avoiding? why you run?


c'mon i wanna hear some knowledge, not pro wrestling scripts


**** man, i already fighting against what you all saying, and also actually founght for what some of you said if you could even understand what i said.

here let me give you one.

The aztlan story doesn't justify imperialistic ideas of taking lands.

there. yeah i said that too. you against that or for that?

koyoteh 10-01-2014 05:12 PM

i will give you one since you all can't seem to actually talk about the myth itself
 
here let me give you one.

The aztlan story doesn't justify imperialistic ideas of taking lands.

there. yeah i said that too. you against that or for that?

Grits & Beans 10-01-2014 05:27 PM

don't know what part of that's about it you don't understand...




you have 23 posts and all amount to nada, sorry you ain't gonna pick my brain...


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