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koyoteh 10-01-2014 05:28 PM

slight tangent
 
This link is to an article that doesn't hold back about the good and the bad parts of mexica history from aztlan to the fall of tenochtitlan.

THe writer is a man who was a student of the one of the original teachers who brought these dances and ways over the american border into the u.s.a. territories. ONE of them. THere was at least 4 teachers. YEs these teachers were approved by Mexica councils to share.
Maybe some disagree with the sharing , but that was up to the councils.

anyhow. This man says the mexica weren't very nice.

Mexi'cayot l- A History of Danza Azteca

koyoteh 10-01-2014 05:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Grits & Beans (Post 1608907)
don't know what part of that's about it you don't understand...




you have 23 posts and all amount to nada, sorry you ain't gonna pick my brain...

not picking your brain.

anyone writing here obviously wants to be read, seen, understood. has something to say.
somebody calling out an idea and wanting to destroy obviously wants to prove something. but still nothing.
smack talking doesn't prove anything. White mans tactic. military tactic. divide and conquer.

you could go anywhere and smack talk. and ignore the topic.
thats old.
kid stuff.
"i don't like what you say....whaaa whaa whaaa" kid stuff.

thats all you got?

if all anyone wants to do is smack talk, title should just say so.

smack talking on the internet, doesn't hold the same feeling as smack talking in person. no one can really do anything more than that and thats boring.

gilisi 10-02-2014 12:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by koyoteh (Post 1608900)
man, you quote me , but then say i said things i didn't. whats the point in quoting if you are going to straight lie? we can just look at it and its not true what you said.

but in your response you didn't really say anything except you don't like me. Thats it? thats all you can say?

how bout denying the military, patriotic, freemason parts at least? why didn't you deny that?

if you really wanted to discuss , you would ask me why i would say such things. or to explain if you don't really know what i mean.


we all learned from the same lying history books. we all got raised in their school systems and institutions. we all had to go through the working system for money. and some of you even joined the military.

all these things served to keep us ignorant of each other. and all served to strip us of our own histories and replaced with skewed histories to straight our lies. or skewed histories that pushed us into acceptance.

like accepting that our tribe can only be wawrriors by joining the u.s. military. OR belief in jesus is okay at a traditional ceremony.

craziness.

but thats not everyone i know that.

But what does a lakota know about the plight and experience of 'mexican' natives? 500 years worth of info? WHat does a 'mexican' know about 200 years worth of lakota history?

how is it that some, who are so far away from each other, actually learned about each other? from one another?

yeah that happened. Many lakotas reached out to chicanos. And exchanges were made.

do you know about that? have you met anyone who has been through that?

and not just with lakotas either.

now theres no denying that this took place.

if you disagree with non-chicanos natives, sharing with chicanos, then you all should just say so.

if you do, then you will have to take it up with the ones that did the sharing. many of whom were your own tribal elders.


and ask them WHY THEY DID THIS?




i for one think it was a good thing. ANd i appreciate their help and love for all natives who were lost and confused.


Here we go pancho... You said "they don't know about all the sub groups that branched off because of it.

THey are unknowing and refuse to admit that they just don't know.

all they would have to do is ask questions about how things developeed to be the way they are now. For other nations AND their own nations."


So if we have to ask questions about how things developed for for other nations and OUR OWN WTF are you saying? you are saying we don't know our own history.

Like I said before you might have had some good points to make if you didn't get all bootie tickled.

What about what you said about military? Ain't nobody got time for that.

About telling you I don't like you... I said I don't like your name... who is miss quoting who?

subeeds 10-02-2014 02:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by koyoteh (Post 1608897)
If you feel the american flag is disrespected....then you are no longer native. and got no right to speak about other natives who want native freedom.

if you were a native who is now christian, you are also no longer native. You have no right to speak about people who are fighting to be connected to their NON CHRISTIAN roots again after the christians took away their identities and culture.

Saluting that flag, joining their armies, believing in that bible, thats traiterous.

Excuse me????????????? Do you realize that you have just basically spit on every Navajo Code talker who ever lived? Or other NDNs who fought and died for this country because they felt that it is still their country, or because it was the right thing to do? How dare you tell people that simply because they became Christian, they aren't native anymore. Who in the h**l are you to judge that or anything else about any of us? Some people choose to adapt and go on. It's called progress. What do you want to do, go back to the days of the buffalo hunt and living in tipis?

Edited to add: never mind the buffalo hunting/tipi remark. I forget for a minute that buffalo didn't usually go that far south, and the population down there lived in pueblo type dwelling more or less.

Joe's Dad 10-02-2014 03:20 AM

[QUOTE=koyoteh;1608908]This link is to an article that doesn't hold back about the good and the bad parts of mexica history from aztlan to the fall of tenochtitlan.

THe writer is a man who was a student of the one of the original teachers who brought these dances and ways over the american border into the u.s.a. territories. ONE of them. THere was at least 4 teachers. YEs these teachers were approved by Mexica councils to share.
Maybe some disagree with the sharing , but that was up to the councils.

anyhow. This man says the mexica weren't very nice.

Mexi'cayot l- A History of Danza Azteca[/QUOTSo are you a dazante? Have you ever seen the Cosmicos? What kind of feathers do Los Concheros wear? Have you ever held a pluma from an Aguila Real? A Quetzal? Have you danced in La Villa?

Answer each question individually and gain some credibility. Don't keep spewing that Atzlan bullsh!t because what you know, you read it in a book or someone had to tell you. I don't think you've lived it.

Hoka!

Joe's Dad 10-02-2014 09:27 AM

And while we'rr at it...where were you during Wounded Knee? Did you march with Cesar Chavez? Did you march in support of the farm workers? How many reservations have you visited? How many homes on rezzes have you been allowed into? Have you ever supported Natives at ceremony where there WASN'T ANY WHITE PEOPLE? Have you ever held an olla that came from El Gran Tenochtitlan? What landmark is there in Itztapalapa?

Go ahead and answer eaxh question individually. Get that respect gou so much desire and can't attain.

Joe's Dad 10-02-2014 09:28 AM

Coyote...

The voices tell me.

koyoteh 10-03-2014 03:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by subeeds (Post 1608953)
Excuse me????????????? Do you realize that you have just basically spit on every Navajo Code talker who ever lived? Or other NDNs who fought and died for this country because they felt that it is still their country, or because it was the right thing to do? How dare you tell people that simply because they became Christian, they aren't native anymore. Who in the h**l are you to judge that or anything else about any of us? Some people choose to adapt and go on. It's called progress. What do you want to do, go back to the days of the buffalo hunt and living in tipis?

Edited to add: never mind the buffalo hunting/tipi remark. I forget for a minute that buffalo didn't usually go that far south, and the population down there lived in pueblo type dwelling more or less.

actually i am glad you are upset.
its the same logic that you guys are using to decide who is a fake injun.
if we are going to have standards about who is a real indian, then should go straight to the beginning of it all. Not leave people out just because they are family or friends.

if a person is fake for all the things you all say, then how can they still be real if they are christians and members of cuters armies?

can't leave that out of the equation.

So okay. i can say they are still native if you want to.
it looks more to me like a native pretending to be white, dressing up like white people, and following white peoples ways and culture.

same **** as them white people that wanna play indian.
no different.

hey its your logic not mine.


then again, i am okay with ww2 involvement. so depends on the battle. However, the natives in that war were betrayed and only recently began getting recognition. thats not cool.

then again, i been learning about ww2. theres a lot of lies about ww2.
u.s. involvement was never about being the good guys. Nor was the u.s. even close to being the good guys.

so again, our native peoples did fight hitler, but at the same time , the u.s. was lying to them, and to the american public and also still oppressing the citzens and other natives, and even creating concentration camps full of japanese americans.

so ..... thats ok?

koyoteh 10-03-2014 03:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joe's Dad (Post 1608968)
And while we'rr at it...where were you during Wounded Knee? Did you march with Cesar Chavez? Did you march in support of the farm workers? How many reservations have you visited? How many homes on rezzes have you been allowed into? Have you ever supported Natives at ceremony where there WASN'T ANY WHITE PEOPLE? Have you ever held an olla that came from El Gran Tenochtitlan? What landmark is there in Itztapalapa?

Go ahead and answer eaxh question individually. Get that respect gou so much desire and can't attain.

actually yes. i did my share of works. but in my community here.

yes i did visit reservations and helped them with whatever they wanted me to help with. From building, choppping wood, to pulling security for them.
marches? plenty. Bodyguarding the marchers? plenty.
i been to ceremony's without white people yes. but thats up to them to allow them in or keep them out.

sometimes been asked to help keeep them out.

some of that other stuff, eehh, wasn't born yet or was too young at the time.

Other than that if you want specifics, i might think you are a fed looking for a snitch.

koyoteh 10-03-2014 03:17 AM

[QUOTE=Joe's Dad;1608958]
Quote:

Originally Posted by koyoteh (Post 1608908)
This link is to an article that doesn't hold back about the good and the bad parts of mexica history from aztlan to the fall of tenochtitlan.

THe writer is a man who was a student of the one of the original teachers who brought these dances and ways over the american border into the u.s.a. territories. ONE of them. THere was at least 4 teachers. YEs these teachers were approved by Mexica councils to share.
Maybe some disagree with the sharing , but that was up to the councils.

anyhow. This man says the mexica weren't very nice.

Mexi'cayot l- A History of Danza Azteca[/QUOTSo are you a dazante? Have you ever seen the Cosmicos? What kind of feathers do Los Concheros wear? Have you ever held a pluma from an Aguila Real? A Quetzal? Have you danced in La Villa?

Answer each question individually and gain some credibility. Don't keep spewing that Atzlan bullsh!t because what you know, you read it in a book or someone had to tell you. I don't think you've lived it.

Hoka!

i don't really understand each question but i will try.
I have participated in a yes am/was a member of a danza group.
but we rebelled against the catholic churches involvement and instead chose to fight for the people and their issues.
We brought attention to the peoples issues and helped gain them confidence and courage to fight for themselves.

if you want a breakdown of how danza structure works, that would take too long. suffice it to say its a military/ warrior society structure. However, the concheros do not fight physically against people but spirituallity. I am not a conchero. The church is involvement there just as much as christianity has worked its way into so many natives tribes and ceremonies everywhere.
However, for the concheros , the church is used as a disguise to hide native culture.

as far as going back into mexico city and the villages. I can't afford that. we have emissaries though that go and come back.
we have reps that come from mexico and share.

its been awhile since i danced. since then i do see how things have gotten out of hand. I do see people making up regalia without any structure or meanings. just for show.
but for some groups that is ok.
its not my way though.

my group we asked for the blessings of the chumash and the tongva and follow protocol, to do what we do and did. and we aid them when they called on us.

i say this not to talk about myself, but to not talk about others. while at the same time to show that there those who are nothing like what you talk about.
but i do not deny that the ones you talk about exist. they do.
we do not like it either.

but its not everyone.

Grits & Beans 10-03-2014 03:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by koyoteh (Post 1609053)
actually yes. i did my share of works. but in my community here.

yes i did visit reservations and helped them with whatever they wanted me to help with. From building, choppping wood, to pulling security for them.
marches? plenty. Bodyguarding the marchers? plenty.
i been to ceremony's without white people yes. but thats up to them to allow them in or keep them out.

sometimes been asked to help keeep them out.

some of that other stuff, eehh, wasn't born yet or was too young at the time.

Other than that if you want specifics, i might think you are a fed looking for a snitch.

I ain't no rata!

koyoteh 10-03-2014 03:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gilisi (Post 1608936)
Here we go pancho... You said "they don't know about all the sub groups that branched off because of it.

THey are unknowing and refuse to admit that they just don't know.

all they would have to do is ask questions about how things developeed to be the way they are now. For other nations AND their own nations."


So if we have to ask questions about how things developed for for other nations and OUR OWN WTF are you saying? you are saying we don't know our own history.

Like I said before you might have had some good points to make if you didn't get all bootie tickled.

What about what you said about military? Ain't nobody got time for that.

About telling you I don't like you... I said I don't like your name... who is miss quoting who?

am saying you don't have a complete history nor complete awareness of current events. WHo does though?
i don't get mad when i don't know something. I look to find out and learn. no big deal.

ok. instead of me saying that people don't know let me just ask then...
do you know about all the sub groups and branches that developed in the aftermath of the fall of tenochtitlan? all the way to present day?
Do you know the sizes of these groups? the actual members? their ages? where they learned? how they learned? how they were raised?
if they are just learning?
do you know if they actually helped people out?

do you know about how gangs developed and how they are even now on reservations too?
did you know that an effort was made to stop gangs from growing on reservations before they were there?
do you know about how when gangs first showed signs of growing on reservations that we were called in to help prevent it?

do you know why gangs grew anyhow?
do you even know which reservtions asked for our help?

**** you just might know.

but i am gambling on not. if you did you would have different view on life.

Grits & Beans 10-03-2014 03:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by koyoteh (Post 1609054)
i don't really understand each question but i will try.
I have participated in a yes am/was a member of a danza group.
but we rebelled against the catholic churches involvement and instead chose to fight for the people and their issues.
We brought attention to the peoples issues and helped gain them confidence and courage to fight for themselves.

if you want a breakdown of how danza structure works, that would take too long. suffice it to say its a military/ warrior society structure. However, the concheros do not fight physically against people but spirituallity. I am not a conchero. The church is involvement there just as much as christianity has worked its way into so many natives tribes and ceremonies everywhere.
However, for the concheros , the church is used as a disguise to hide native culture.

as far as going back into mexico city and the villages. I can't afford that. we have emissaries though that go and come back.
we have reps that come from mexico and share.

its been awhile since i danced. since then i do see how things have gotten out of hand. I do see people making up regalia without any structure or meanings. just for show.
but for some groups that is ok.
its not my way though.

my group we asked for the blessings of the chumash and the tongva and follow protocol, to do what we do and did. and we aid them when they called on us.

i say this not to talk about myself, but to not talk about others. while at the same time to show that there those who are nothing like what you talk about.
but i do not deny that the ones you talk about exist. they do.
we do not like it either.

but its not everyone.


I'm gonna fold your bluffing hand someday...

koyoteh 10-03-2014 03:28 AM

gangs? where did he pull that out?

i pulled it out because it is completely relevant.

if you do not know how it relates, you do not know the history or have an udnerstanding of the processes that i speak of.

plus, a lot of what you see that don't look right was party about keeping the native deescendants from joining gangs.

koyoteh 10-03-2014 03:32 AM

[QUOTE=Grits & Beans;1609057]
Quote:

Originally Posted by koyoteh (Post 1609054)


I'm gonna fold your bluffing hand someday...


why you think i bluff?

i don't know you. got no reason to lie.

now if i coat up my story with fantastical deeds and exaggerations, then you can call me out.

but theres a whole lot of people out here doing way way more than me who stuck to it and do great great things.

i stopped. went to work. raised a family. and did what i could family-wise.

can't be taking kids into an anti police brutality march guarding.

amd no. you don't have to be a buff dude to guard people. Just the fact that the police see people standing united and people willing to protect them is or rather was enough. might not be anymore.

koyoteh 10-03-2014 03:39 AM

i provided a link up there to one our community members writings. he is an elder. and a captain in his circle.

he breaks everything down. answers all kinds of questions you guys have. he even agrees with some of the stuff you say.

but he says it better.

and from first hand experience.

however i shared it with you so you can talk to those mexica nazi groups with some knowledge that comes from their own culture.

i challenge you to try and see how much they do not know about their own culture. THan i ask you to figure out why they don't like it.

and you will see some of the reason why things are the way they are with those small minority groups you don't like.

You will find that they actually do not like their own culture or at least a lot of it. Danza being a big part. They hate it.

but again. you wouldn't know this from thie outside.

its a good read no matter how you use it.

Grits & Beans 10-03-2014 03:40 AM

There's a ray of sunshine in all that darkness down there...

gilisi 10-03-2014 03:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by koyoteh (Post 1609056)

**** you just might know.

but i am gambling on not. if you did you would have different view on life.

You don't have enough to gamble at my table.

You say I have done nothing but offend you. Where? Quote me ACCURATELY on it...

You came here claiming to teach things that we need to learn, claiming we are ignorant and don't even want to know...

Show some examples

I am tired of your street sermons. You have no clue about my view on life.

And why would I share it with you since you know everything already?

subeeds 10-03-2014 03:45 AM

You talk in circles-as my Grandfather once said about a politician who was running for office, "The wind blows your words in one of my ears and out of the other because they have little meaning except for you to hear yourself".

Have a great weekend people. I plan on it.

milehighsalute 10-03-2014 04:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Grits & Beans (Post 1609063)
There's a ray of sunshine in all that darkness down there...

sorry pedro......no tortilla


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