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-   -   destroying the myth of aztlan and aztec HOBBYISTS (http://forums.powwows.com/f40/destroying-myth-aztlan-aztec-hobbyists-68613/)

gilisi 10-03-2014 04:05 AM

LOL somebody got it.

koyoteh 10-03-2014 04:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gilisi (Post 1609064)
You don't have enough to gamble at my table.

You say I have done nothing but offend you. Where? Quote me ACCURATELY on it...

You came here claiming to teach things that we need to learn, claiming we are ignorant and don't even want to know...

Show some examples

I am tired of your street sermons. You have no clue about my view on life.

And why would I share it with you since you know everything already?

i ask again. did you know these things? do you know these things?
about sharing though. this is a forum. if you make statements or make insults but claim you don't want to share your views? why are you here?
if its only to share insults, make another thread for that.
i made my statements but you have not really actually commented on the meat of them. not even now.
yes it could be that you choose not to share. or it could be that you are unable to.
maybe you need to confirm what i am saying. i can wait. in the meantime why fight?

Joe's Dad 10-03-2014 04:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by koyoteh (Post 1609053)
actually yes. i did my share of works. but in my community here.

yes i did visit reservations and helped them with whatever they wanted me to help with. From building, choppping wood, to pulling security for them.
marches? plenty. Bodyguarding the marchers? plenty.
i been to ceremony's without white people yes. but thats up town them to allow them in or keep them out.

sometimes been asked to help keeep them out.

some of that other stuff, eehh, wasn't born yet or was too young at the time.

Other than that if you want specifics, i might think you are a fed looking for a snitch.

I come the old school. We dont kiss and tell. I'm in my sixth decade of life. I wouldn't have asked you those questions if I hadnt done them myself. My son danced in Mexico City at the cathedral in both his feathers from here and in his vestuario. He has been given permission to dance with a high ranking group when he wants. To come in here and start talking about people don't know anything about aztecas, atzlan, who landed at the cactus with the eagle atop and a snake in it's mouth makes it sound like you and your teachers are the only ones who are right. This has the tones of the preachers and the padres going to set all the hesthens straight...even if it kills the heathens. There is always those who know just a little more, have done a little more and have contributed a little more.

Those are the ones who usually stay quiet...until the omniscient one comes along. I won't question you have good intentions. Slow your role and listen. You can't learn when you're talking.

koyoteh 10-03-2014 04:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by subeeds (Post 1609065)
You talk in circles-as my Grandfather once said about a politician who was running for office, "The wind blows your words in one of my ears and out of the other because they have little meaning except for you to hear yourself".

Have a great weekend people. I plan on it.

except i bet your gramps could actually pinpoint what he means. still ya haven't really said antyghing about the info i give.

gilisi 10-03-2014 04:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by koyoteh (Post 1609076)
i ask again. did you know these things? do you know these things?
about sharing though. this is a forum. if you make statements or make insults but claim you don't want to share your views? why are you here?
if its only to share insults, make another thread for that.
i made my statements but you have not really actually commented on the meat of them. not even now.
yes it could be that you choose not to share. or it could be that you are unable to.
maybe you need to confirm what i am saying. i can wait. in the meantime why fight?

What is this putting me to the test garbage? I am not the one who came claiming to know all there is to know. Read this whole thread. You didn't even assert what I said where you quoted me. It is enough for me to know my own story, and as far as aztlan, I never questioned the authenticity of the origins of aztec dancers because I know what I know.

You are a Dumbazz By the way

Grits & Beans 10-03-2014 04:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by koyoteh (Post 1609079)
except i bet your gramps could actually pinpoint what he means. still ya haven't really said antyghing about the info i give.


60 posts to your name and still you are getting zero respect. Why is that?

gilisi 10-03-2014 04:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by joe's dad (Post 1609078)
i come the old school. We dont kiss and tell. I'm in my sixth decade of life. I wouldn't have asked you those questions if i hadnt done them myself. My son danced in mexico city at the cathedral in both his feathers from here and in his vestuario. He has been given permission to dance with a high ranking group when he wants. To come in here and start talking about people don't know anything about aztecas, atzlan, who landed at the cactus with the eagle atop and a snake in it's mouth makes it sound like you and your teachers are the only ones who are right. This has the tones of the preachers and the padres going to set all the hesthens straight...even if it kills the heathens. There is always those who know just a little more, have done a little more and have contributed a little more.

Those are the ones who usually stay quiet...until the omniscient one comes along. I won't question you have good intentions. Slow your role and listen. You can't learn when you're talking.

bump

koyoteh 10-03-2014 04:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joe's Dad (Post 1609078)
I come the old school. We dont kiss and tell. I'm in my sixth decade of life. I wouldn't have asked you those questions if I hadnt done them myself. My son danced in Mexico City at the cathedral in both his feathers from here and in his vestuario. He has been given permission to dance with a high ranking group when he wants. To come in here and start talking about people don't know anything about aztecas, atzlan, who landed at the cactus with the eagle atop and a snake in it's mouth makes it sound like you and your teachers are the only ones who are right. This has the tones of the preachers and the padres going to set all the hesthens straight...even if it kills the heathens. There is always those who know just a little more, have done a little more and have contributed a little more.

Those are the ones who usually stay quit. Intil the omniscient one comes along. I won't question you have good intentions. Slow your role and listen. Youcan't learn when you're talking.


if what you say is true about your son. then all you have to do is go ask him and them about what i say.

ask them about the teachers that were sent to the states to teach here.
ask them about what went right and what went wrong.

but i am sure you know.

i also know about these things. but i also rebel against the church. THe church forced took over the danzas. created a heirarchy and even kept the darker natives out. A lot of discrmintation existed in the church dance groups.
on the oppposite side of the table , a lot of danza remained in the villages because well that where they devleoped but also because they were not allowed into the larger dance circles.
but you would know that.
i have been quiet from these forums for years. yes i can keep quiet. but when i hear people speak lies, well, sometimes i got to say something.

or when i hear people mention a story with parts missing and i have one of the missing pieces, it becomes a responsibility to say something.

no its the churches teachings that tell the heathens to stay quiet.
i rebelled against those church ways. my group rebelled against those church ways.

and if what you say is true about your son being a part of the dance circles in mexico, it will not take you long to figure out which rebellious dance group i come from.
They will tell you. There is only one as far i know, us.

you talk about being allowed to dance at a cathedral? then you know about the mesas. YOu know the aztlan stories. yet you put it down and allow others to do the same.

you know that others besides your son were given permission to dance. you know how that works then.

you know that the people here were given permission to dance, yet do you defend them or help out when they make mistakes? maybe you help out, but i haven't seen you defend them yet. quite the opposite.
if what you say is true, then you do know about all the sub groups and branches.

you also would know of the different styles of danza and their different ideaologies and philosphies and how many of the old church groups have told the people up here not to defend thenmselves or stand up for their rights or make changes that will save them.

you will know about the warrior danza groups.

koyoteh 10-03-2014 05:09 AM

having been around so long, and knowing people the dancers who have an aztlan story, and having a son there. you should know the aztlan story well.

but this is thread entitled Destroying the myth of aztlan, and your best piece of info to destroy it is too just call it aztlan bull****.

that sir disrespects the people you say are a part of.

i would hope that an elder would at least defend his people.
even they are his people solely by association and acceptance.

knowing the story , i bet you could offer more than just kissing and yelling bull****.

gilisi 10-03-2014 05:11 AM

AHO!

Your name is no longer koyoteh

it is now marrano

:lol:

Joe's Dad 10-03-2014 05:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by koyoteh (Post 1609086)
if what you say is true about your son. then all you have to do is go ask him and them about what i say.

ask them about the teachers that were sent to the states to teach here.
ask them about what went right and what went wrong.

but i am sure you know.

i also know about these things. but i also rebel against the church. THe church forced took over the danzas. created a heirarchy and even kept the darker natives out. A lot of discrmintation existed in the church dance groups.
on the oppposite side of the table , a lot of danza remained in the villages because well that where they devleoped but also because they were not allowed into the larger dance circles.
but you would know that.
i have been quiet from these forums for years. yes i can keep quiet. but when i hear people speak lies, well, sometimes i got to say something.

or when i hear people mention a story with parts missing and i have one of the missing pieces, it becomes a responsibility to say something.

no its the churches teachings that tell the heathens to stay quiet.
i rebelled against those church ways. my group rebelled against those church ways.

and if what you say is true about your son being a part of the dance circles in mexico, it will not take you long to figure out which rebellious dance group i come from.
They will tell you. There is only one as far i know, us.

you talk about being allowed to dance at a cathedral? then you know about the mesas. YOu know the aztlan stories. yet you put it down and allow others to do the same.

you know that others besides your son were given permission to dance. you know how that works then.

you know that the people here were given permission to dance, yet do you defend them or help out when they make mistakes? maybe you help out, but i haven't seen you defend them yet. quite the opposite.
if what you say is true, then you do know about all the sub groups and branches.

you also would know of the different styles of danza and their different ideaologies and philosphies and how many of the old church groups have told the people up here not to defend thenmselves or stand up for their rights or make changes that will save them.

you will know about the warrior danza groups.

My mother comes from the area of the mountain of the blue rock. I dance eagle bustle not azteca. I knpw who I am and I knpw where I come from. Both sides. I personally don't think you can put natives from this continent and say they are all the same. Culturally linguistics, traditions...are all different. A true statement would be "we are all indigenous". To think you have the right to go into Grand Entry as a danzante is the same as thinking you can walk into a closed aztec group and start dancing. Oil and water don't mix.

koyoteh 10-03-2014 05:20 AM

i do not know you JOES DAD. but this aztlan bashing , is taking place across forumsn and across social websites and being done by a few individuals.

and all without one ounce of proof on their part.

even their enemies provide proof for their claims even if the proof is incorrect at times, they still do it.

Tha aztlan story is native. No matter who it comes from. The danzantes in mexico have it too. being a associated with them then you know this and you know the story is native. and you know the Mexica Movement has nothing to do with aztlan and the danzantes traditions surrounding the story.

yet you do not defend the native story and allow the bashing to go on and contribute to the bashing instead disrespect your native associates ancestors.

I know that the concheros do not promote warrior mentality but dang man. Help the natives out and defend their ancestors when they get bashed. and if some people are having misunderstandings shed light on those misunderstandings. from all sides of the table.

and if there are fakes out there misusing native stories, call them out while defending the ones who use it correctly.

i could only imagine that you might be one of the ones helping to contribute to the bashing in the other sites too.
which is a sad thing when elders of other nations gangbang on other natives ancestors.

gilisi 10-03-2014 05:21 AM

@koyoteh I mean, marrano, you must not know how to read... hooked on phonics may help

aaaayyye

Grits & Beans 10-03-2014 05:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by koyoteh (Post 1609094)
i do not know you JOES DAD. but this aztlan bashing , is taking place across forumsn and across social websites and being done by a few individuals.

and all without one ounce of proof on their part.

even their enemies provide proof for their claims even if the proof is incorrect at times, they still do it.

Tha aztlan story is native. No matter who it comes from. The danzantes in mexico have it too. being a associated with them then you know this and you know the story is native. and you know the Mexica Movement has nothing to do with aztlan and the danzantes traditions surrounding the story.

yet you do not defend the native story and allow the bashing to go on and contribute to the bashing instead disrespect your native associates ancestors.

I know that the concheros do not promote warrior mentality but dang man. Help the natives out and defend their ancestors when they get bashed. and if some people are having misunderstandings shed light on those misunderstandings. from all sides of the table.

and if there are fakes out there misusing native stories, call them out while defending the ones who use it correctly.

i could only imagine that you might be one of the ones helping to contribute to the bashing in the other sites too.
which is a sad thing when elders of other nations gangbang on other natives ancestors.

When you find yourself in a hole, you stop digging. Common sense...

koyoteh 10-03-2014 05:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joe's Dad (Post 1609091)
My mother comes from the area of the mountain of the blue rock. I dance eagle bustle not azteca. I knpw who I am and I knpw where I come from. Both sides. I personally don't think you can put natives from this continent and say they are all the same. Culturally linguistics, traditions...are all different. A true statement would be "we are all indigenous". To think you have the right to go into Grand Entry as a danzante is the same as thinking you can walk into a closed aztec group and start dancing. Oil and water don't mix.

you are right and wrong. if you are using the term "you" in the general sense ok. but if you mean me. i never claimed to have any rights.

but i will point out the contradictions and the hypocrisies of such things as pow wows.
white people are allowed to dance and invited in. WHITE PEOPLE. thats weird. Many pow wows, not all, are ok with the fake white natives dancing and do nothing about it. They like the money they bring i think.
Pow wows promote INTERTRIBALISM. yet have had a history of exluding many native people. I seen this for myself. And i am not talkign about mexicas. Many tribes hate pow wows because of this and the disrespect that pow wows bring into their lands.
Me, i preferred to have everyone work out and suppport the idea of intertribal social dancing and i did. and it worked out fine.
its hypocritical to say everyone is welcome to come dance and then exclude specific natives.
to be a part of grand entry....you may be right. however, when a social gathering says all nations welcome....what does this mean?

how should those nations visiting and joining in the fun show their respect? and at the same time folllow their own traditions of showing respect?

if you know about danza azteca than you know this would be at the entrado. Now i do know its a culture shock and new and the whipman doesn't know where to place them, but still its a show of respect to the head man dancers and the ancestors of the original pow wow starters.
if there are to be any exclusions the flyers should say so and not say all nations welcome.
this implies that the gathering is OPEN not CLOSED.
to compare to a closed danza circle is not valid. Its closed. but they will tell you its closed.
most danza circle are open and yes you can just show up. but out of respect still should ask for permission.
and yes, many danzantes have asked for permission to dance at pow wows. and yes many were invited to dance. you may not agree with those other elders who did the inviting but they did invite.
and no its best to leave the church hymms at home.
i know natives are not all the same. but then again when people make that statement it is VAGUE. leaves out too much about what do they mean by that? we are all the same in that we are all the same race. the same blood. but we are not all the same in that we have different languages, traditions, styles, things like that.

we are all indigenous and my people over here say exactly that. we don't go around saying nican tlaca and retake the southwest like the mexica movement people would have others believe.

koyoteh 10-03-2014 05:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gilisi (Post 1609096)
@koyoteh I mean, marrano, you must not know how to read... hooked on phonics may help

aaaayyye

i read fine. ya just don't know how to communicate.

ya guys do trash the mexica nazis but lump the innocent ones in there with them with the things you say.

gilisi 10-03-2014 05:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by koyoteh (Post 1609104)
i read fine. ya just don't know how to communicate.

ya guys do trash the mexica nazis but lump the innocent ones in there with them with the things you say.




You say I don't know how to communicate, then you make yet ANOTHER false accusation.

You can't read fine if you ain't reading.

koyoteh 10-03-2014 05:54 AM

still havent heard anyone destroy the myth. not even a dent or a poke. just name calling so far.

and ' i know a mexica from mexico '

and ' i don't like "

and "this is bs"

and 'who are you'

and 'you think you know everything'

but dam i came here to learn something about maybe the story was bad enough to be 'destroyed' and nothing nothing nothing .

and then some say " why should i tell you "

wth? did't somebody make this thread with the whole intention of doing just that? telling?

now somebody comes with an opposing story and info and you don't wannna talk?

just name call?

cmon. i want to hear why you thingk the story is no good. IF its valid I WILL SHARE IT TO OTHERS to point out that there are others who have valid points on why they disagree.

i been known to point out the sides of other natives to my people who get out of line so they can stop.

gilisi 10-03-2014 05:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by koyoteh (Post 1609104)
i read fine. ya just don't know how to communicate.

ya guys do trash the mexica nazis but lump the innocent ones in there with them with the things you say.

My turn to ask questions then...

Have you ever worked side by side with indocumented Mexicans?

How many days have you gone without running water?

without food?

Have you ever shed blood over these issues?

Have you ever been detained simply for being racially profiled?

Have you suffered alongside these innocents you claim to defend?

I want to see your regalia.. really show us some pics

I'm interested

koyoteh 10-03-2014 05:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gilisi (Post 1609107)
[/B]

You say I don't know how to communicate, then you make yet ANOTHER false accusation.

You can't read fine if you ain't reading.

just playing around with you. cause thats all i see you doing here. playhin around. not saying anything. just name calling.

i can't really comment or respond to name calling or putdowns. doesn't really give me anything to talk about.

name calling smakc talking is fine in the streets to rile someone up to throw the first punch but this aint the streets. and if someone does throw a punch are ya gonna fight back or just continue the smack talk?
at least the others have begun to actually talk even though its still off topic.
they have interesting things to say even if i disagree with them .

you , ehhh, haven't said anything.

but if you wanna continue to play i guess i will play.


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