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destroying the myth of aztlan and aztec HOBBYISTS
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#61 |
Junior Dancer
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slight tangent
This link is to an article that doesn't hold back about the good and the bad parts of mexica history from aztlan to the fall of tenochtitlan.
THe writer is a man who was a student of the one of the original teachers who brought these dances and ways over the american border into the u.s.a. territories. ONE of them. THere was at least 4 teachers. YEs these teachers were approved by Mexica councils to share. Maybe some disagree with the sharing , but that was up to the councils. anyhow. This man says the mexica weren't very nice. Mexi'cayot l- A History of Danza Azteca |
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#62 | |
Junior Dancer
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anyone writing here obviously wants to be read, seen, understood. has something to say. somebody calling out an idea and wanting to destroy obviously wants to prove something. but still nothing. smack talking doesn't prove anything. White mans tactic. military tactic. divide and conquer. you could go anywhere and smack talk. and ignore the topic. thats old. kid stuff. "i don't like what you say....whaaa whaa whaaa" kid stuff. thats all you got? if all anyone wants to do is smack talk, title should just say so. smack talking on the internet, doesn't hold the same feeling as smack talking in person. no one can really do anything more than that and thats boring. |
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#63 | |
Pow Wow Committee
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Here we go pancho... You said "they don't know about all the sub groups that branched off because of it. THey are unknowing and refuse to admit that they just don't know. all they would have to do is ask questions about how things developeed to be the way they are now. For other nations AND their own nations." So if we have to ask questions about how things developed for for other nations and OUR OWN WTF are you saying? you are saying we don't know our own history. Like I said before you might have had some good points to make if you didn't get all bootie tickled. What about what you said about military? Ain't nobody got time for that. About telling you I don't like you... I said I don't like your name... who is miss quoting who?
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When you are dead you don't know that you are dead. It is difficult only for the others. It is the same when you are stupid. "Show me somethin" Last edited by gilisi; 10-02-2014 at 08:45 PM.. Reason: removed the insult |
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#64 | |
small bead addict
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Edited to add: never mind the buffalo hunting/tipi remark. I forget for a minute that buffalo didn't usually go that far south, and the population down there lived in pueblo type dwelling more or less.
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Take nothing for granted. Life can change irrevocably in a heartbeat. I will not feed the troll-well, I will try. Last edited by subeeds; 10-02-2014 at 02:16 AM.. |
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#65 |
The voices tell me...
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[QUOTE=koyoteh;1608908]This link is to an article that doesn't hold back about the good and the bad parts of mexica history from aztlan to the fall of tenochtitlan.
THe writer is a man who was a student of the one of the original teachers who brought these dances and ways over the american border into the u.s.a. territories. ONE of them. THere was at least 4 teachers. YEs these teachers were approved by Mexica councils to share. Maybe some disagree with the sharing , but that was up to the councils. anyhow. This man says the mexica weren't very nice. Mexi'cayot l- A History of Danza Azteca[/QUOTSo are you a dazante? Have you ever seen the Cosmicos? What kind of feathers do Los Concheros wear? Have you ever held a pluma from an Aguila Real? A Quetzal? Have you danced in La Villa? Answer each question individually and gain some credibility. Don't keep spewing that Atzlan bullsh!t because what you know, you read it in a book or someone had to tell you. I don't think you've lived it. Hoka!
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Why must I feel like that..why must I chase the cat? "When I was young man I did some dumb things and the elders would talk to me. Sometimes I listened. Time went by and as I looked around...I was the elder". Mr. Rossie Freeman |
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#66 |
The voices tell me...
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And while we'rr at it...where were you during Wounded Knee? Did you march with Cesar Chavez? Did you march in support of the farm workers? How many reservations have you visited? How many homes on rezzes have you been allowed into? Have you ever supported Natives at ceremony where there WASN'T ANY WHITE PEOPLE? Have you ever held an olla that came from El Gran Tenochtitlan? What landmark is there in Itztapalapa?
Go ahead and answer eaxh question individually. Get that respect gou so much desire and can't attain. |
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#67 |
The voices tell me...
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Coyote...
The voices tell me. |
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#68 | |
Junior Dancer
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its the same logic that you guys are using to decide who is a fake injun. if we are going to have standards about who is a real indian, then should go straight to the beginning of it all. Not leave people out just because they are family or friends. if a person is fake for all the things you all say, then how can they still be real if they are christians and members of cuters armies? can't leave that out of the equation. So okay. i can say they are still native if you want to. it looks more to me like a native pretending to be white, dressing up like white people, and following white peoples ways and culture. same **** as them white people that wanna play indian. no different. hey its your logic not mine. then again, i am okay with ww2 involvement. so depends on the battle. However, the natives in that war were betrayed and only recently began getting recognition. thats not cool. then again, i been learning about ww2. theres a lot of lies about ww2. u.s. involvement was never about being the good guys. Nor was the u.s. even close to being the good guys. so again, our native peoples did fight hitler, but at the same time , the u.s. was lying to them, and to the american public and also still oppressing the citzens and other natives, and even creating concentration camps full of japanese americans. so ..... thats ok? |
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#69 | |
Junior Dancer
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yes i did visit reservations and helped them with whatever they wanted me to help with. From building, choppping wood, to pulling security for them. marches? plenty. Bodyguarding the marchers? plenty. i been to ceremony's without white people yes. but thats up to them to allow them in or keep them out. sometimes been asked to help keeep them out. some of that other stuff, eehh, wasn't born yet or was too young at the time. Other than that if you want specifics, i might think you are a fed looking for a snitch. |
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#70 | |
Junior Dancer
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[QUOTE=Joe's Dad;1608958]
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I have participated in a yes am/was a member of a danza group. but we rebelled against the catholic churches involvement and instead chose to fight for the people and their issues. We brought attention to the peoples issues and helped gain them confidence and courage to fight for themselves. if you want a breakdown of how danza structure works, that would take too long. suffice it to say its a military/ warrior society structure. However, the concheros do not fight physically against people but spirituallity. I am not a conchero. The church is involvement there just as much as christianity has worked its way into so many natives tribes and ceremonies everywhere. However, for the concheros , the church is used as a disguise to hide native culture. as far as going back into mexico city and the villages. I can't afford that. we have emissaries though that go and come back. we have reps that come from mexico and share. its been awhile since i danced. since then i do see how things have gotten out of hand. I do see people making up regalia without any structure or meanings. just for show. but for some groups that is ok. its not my way though. my group we asked for the blessings of the chumash and the tongva and follow protocol, to do what we do and did. and we aid them when they called on us. i say this not to talk about myself, but to not talk about others. while at the same time to show that there those who are nothing like what you talk about. but i do not deny that the ones you talk about exist. they do. we do not like it either. but its not everyone. |
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#71 | |
Ugh. As. If.
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#72 | |
Junior Dancer
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i don't get mad when i don't know something. I look to find out and learn. no big deal. ok. instead of me saying that people don't know let me just ask then... do you know about all the sub groups and branches that developed in the aftermath of the fall of tenochtitlan? all the way to present day? Do you know the sizes of these groups? the actual members? their ages? where they learned? how they learned? how they were raised? if they are just learning? do you know if they actually helped people out? do you know about how gangs developed and how they are even now on reservations too? did you know that an effort was made to stop gangs from growing on reservations before they were there? do you know about how when gangs first showed signs of growing on reservations that we were called in to help prevent it? do you know why gangs grew anyhow? do you even know which reservtions asked for our help? **** you just might know. but i am gambling on not. if you did you would have different view on life. |
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#73 | |
Ugh. As. If.
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I'm gonna fold your bluffing hand someday... Last edited by Grits & Beans; 10-03-2014 at 02:30 AM.. |
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#74 |
Junior Dancer
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gangs? where did he pull that out?
i pulled it out because it is completely relevant. if you do not know how it relates, you do not know the history or have an udnerstanding of the processes that i speak of. plus, a lot of what you see that don't look right was party about keeping the native deescendants from joining gangs. |
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#75 |
Junior Dancer
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[QUOTE=Grits & Beans;1609057]
why you think i bluff? i don't know you. got no reason to lie. now if i coat up my story with fantastical deeds and exaggerations, then you can call me out. but theres a whole lot of people out here doing way way more than me who stuck to it and do great great things. i stopped. went to work. raised a family. and did what i could family-wise. can't be taking kids into an anti police brutality march guarding. amd no. you don't have to be a buff dude to guard people. Just the fact that the police see people standing united and people willing to protect them is or rather was enough. might not be anymore. |
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#76 |
Junior Dancer
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i provided a link up there to one our community members writings. he is an elder. and a captain in his circle.
he breaks everything down. answers all kinds of questions you guys have. he even agrees with some of the stuff you say. but he says it better. and from first hand experience. however i shared it with you so you can talk to those mexica nazi groups with some knowledge that comes from their own culture. i challenge you to try and see how much they do not know about their own culture. THan i ask you to figure out why they don't like it. and you will see some of the reason why things are the way they are with those small minority groups you don't like. You will find that they actually do not like their own culture or at least a lot of it. Danza being a big part. They hate it. but again. you wouldn't know this from thie outside. its a good read no matter how you use it. |
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#77 |
Ugh. As. If.
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There's a ray of sunshine in all that darkness down there...
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#78 | |
Pow Wow Committee
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You say I have done nothing but offend you. Where? Quote me ACCURATELY on it... You came here claiming to teach things that we need to learn, claiming we are ignorant and don't even want to know... Show some examples I am tired of your street sermons. You have no clue about my view on life. And why would I share it with you since you know everything already?
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When you are dead you don't know that you are dead. It is difficult only for the others. It is the same when you are stupid. "Show me somethin" Last edited by gilisi; 10-03-2014 at 02:43 AM.. |
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#79 |
small bead addict
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You talk in circles-as my Grandfather once said about a politician who was running for office, "The wind blows your words in one of my ears and out of the other because they have little meaning except for you to hear yourself".
Have a great weekend people. I plan on it.
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Take nothing for granted. Life can change irrevocably in a heartbeat. I will not feed the troll-well, I will try. |
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#80 |
Dances With Fat Chicks
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sorry pedro......no tortilla
__________________
"I on the trail of a possible good Indian lady and she is reported to like the old way's and she to believes in big family and being at home with kids all the time"... - MOTOOPI aka WOUNDED BEAR ![]() |
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