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Old 07-20-2004, 10:04 PM   #1
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Question Head dancers

What are your thoughts on white head dancers? I've seen a few, they start small and unintrusive then all the sudden they claim a tribe and are at every powwow. I think it's disrespectful even if their regalia and steps are perfect. :reallymad
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Old 07-20-2004, 10:12 PM   #2
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So, did you card them?
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Old 07-20-2004, 10:41 PM   #3
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Who asked them? The head staff????
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Old 07-21-2004, 02:21 AM   #4
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If there are non-native head dancers, it's the committees problem. Personally, I woulda left and never went back. The committee is the one with a problem.
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Old 07-21-2004, 03:29 AM   #5
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Off With Their Heads!

How dare that Committee choose a Wasicu over us.....OHEE!

I know call up Eddie D. and Protest! That's it...hoka!

Lighten up people.....No..No pun intended....
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Old 07-21-2004, 06:15 AM   #6
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I agree with Spirit of Seattle; how do you know their "white"? There's plenty of native people running around that look white to me. A couple years ago; a navajo lady I was talking to, told me that another woman we both knew must have too much "Custer" in her, that's why she was rude to us. That's the first time I ever heard that one.
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Old 07-21-2004, 02:22 PM   #7
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Red face

:rofl2: How funny! I've never heard that expression either... Bad enough that my brother lives on a street in Spokane called 'SOUTH CUSTER'. He will NEVER live that down...

To borrow an expression of a friend of mine, he says California, Oregon and Washington are full of 'White Indians' and he's not meaning "wannabe's" when he says that, just that with assimilation some of us are 'Whiter' than others.......
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Old 07-21-2004, 02:56 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spirit of Seattle
To borrow an expression of a friend of mine, he says California, Oregon and Washington are full of 'White Indians' and he's not meaning "wannabe's" when he says that, just that with assimilation some of us are 'Whiter' than others.......
I disagree. Theres plenty of dark Natives around here on my rez lots of us are full bloods, but there are Natives on other rez's that are barely 1/2 or below. Those are the ones that look white, yes their ancestors assimilated and fell in love with a white person, hear it a lot on here.
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Old 07-21-2004, 03:27 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kakeeya
I disagree. Theres plenty of dark Natives around here on my rez lots of us are full bloods, but there are Natives on other rez's that are barely 1/2 or below. Those are the ones that look white, yes their ancestors assimilated and fell in love with a white person, hear it a lot on here.
It may have been his expression, but having lived in Oregon and CaliforniaI do know about how mixed the tribes are. I've been going to pow-wows up there for several years and there are people of all quantums that are much lighter. That's just the way it is.
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Old 07-21-2004, 03:36 PM   #10
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Red face

Quote:
Originally Posted by Spirit of Seattle
It may have been his expression, but having lived in Oregon and CaliforniaI do know about how mixed the tribes are. I've been going to pow-wows up there for several years and there are people of all quantums that are much lighter. That's just the way it is.
I won't take up for the other rez's but I know here at Warm Springs, we still have a lot of Natives that look like natives. We're one of the only tribes in Oregon (besides Umatilla) that still has a firm strong grasp of our Native ways and culture.
AND THAT'S JUST THE WAY IT IS!!
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Old 07-21-2004, 03:47 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kakeeya
I won't take up for the other rez's but I know here at Warm Springs, we still have a lot of Natives that look like natives. We're one of the only tribes in Oregon (besides Umatilla) that still has a firm strong grasp of our Native ways and culture.
AND THAT'S JUST THE WAY IT IS!!
You know, I wasn't making negative statements about how NDN anybody was; we were talking about complexion and making the assumption that someone 'light' wasn't NDN, so relax.
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Old 07-21-2004, 03:59 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spirit of Seattle
You know, I wasn't making negative statements about how NDN anybody was; we were talking about complexion and making the assumption that someone 'light' wasn't NDN, so relax.
You did come across as making a negative blanket statement. One of those states has my Nation in it so of course I'm gonna take up for us. I'm sure anyone from Yakama and the other tribes in Washington would get offended by your statements too.

I don't think any of us here that are full bloods look white.
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Old 07-21-2004, 04:28 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kakeeya
I don't think any of us here that are full bloods look white.
Tru Dat!
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Old 07-21-2004, 04:38 PM   #14
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Cool, Kakeeya I agree with you that that could be conceived as a negative blanket statement too. As I grew up down by Chiloquin; and part Springer myself, and have 2 first cousins that live and grew up in Warmsprings. I also see that alot of natives off of those reservations are more mixed and somewhat losing their identity. I grew up there; and my granny used to drag us to all those places you mentioned, and yes for the most part most everyone was dark skinned. I for one noticed that much of the light skinned people, that claim native blood, tend to be from the East Coast, with the exception of a very few. I just wanted to get across that I've met people who are very light skinned; who know all the right ways. Just as a blanket statement about assuming Oregon and Washington is full of light skinned natives is down right absurd to you and I. It's just as absurd to presume some head-dancer that looks white; "is" white. Spirit of Seattle; I'm curious as to what powwows you and/or your friend have attended, because there is a big difference between gatherings on and off the reservations.
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Old 07-21-2004, 05:27 PM   #15
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The original statement was about 'white' colored folks being head dancers and how dare they.
I responded 'did you card them'? Meaning how do you know they weren't NDN, and enrolled.
I then said my friend joked about the differences in coloring. He wasn't being derogatory either, just making an observation. He is a very dark FBI and members of even his own family come in a range of hues.
My words are being twisted to infer that I offered insult to members of tribes in WA, OR, CA.
I did not and I don't appreciate being told I did.
I wasn't commenting on quantum ( "I don't think any of us here that are full bloods look white.")
or specific tribes; I was sharing a comment by a friend.
And, I'm sorry, but my experience at pow-wows at, say, Siletz and Grand Ronde--just to name two--there were alot of lighter skinned dancers.
Again, the original comment was about 'White' colored folk being head dancers.
And I say, again, why assume they are White in race? THAT'S ALL I SAID.
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Old 07-21-2004, 05:49 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spirit of Seattle
To borrow an expression of a friend of mine, he says California, Oregon and Washington are full of 'White Indians' and he's not meaning "wannabe's" when he says that, just that with assimilation some of us are 'Whiter' than others.......
To refresh your memory, this was your original comment.... and you wonder why we think it's negative....

I brought out the fact that our tribe still practices and is strong with our culture and traditions because you said we were assimilated. Why don't you just admit that you didn't know what the hell you were talking about here. Since you went to those other Tribal powwows, you probably should have said that in the beginning because there is a big defference between our Tribes and theirs.
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Old 07-21-2004, 06:06 PM   #17
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Dontcha ever say anything negative about Kakeeyas nation. (other than they have smelly feet) Ayyee, jus kiddin.
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Old 07-21-2004, 06:08 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kakeeya
To refresh your memory, this was your original comment.... and you wonder why we think it's negative....

I brought out the fact that our tribe still practices and is strong with our culture and traditions because you said we were assimilated. Why don't you just admit that you didn't know what the hell you were talking about here. Since you went to those other Tribal powwows, you probably should have said that in the beginning because there is a big defference between our Tribes and theirs.
And, I'll send you some reading glasses.. "some of us are whiter than others". I never said the Confederated tribes at Warm Springs, or the Yakama or whomever specifically were 'pale' in color. I never said they were less NDN, I didn't say ALL, I said SOME. I guess it is good that you recognize there "is a big defference between our Tribes and theirs." I say I guess because I think it is a shame you come across so smug and superior because "I don't think any of us here that are full bloods look white." You are so sensitive about color it is very sad. The lighter 'shade' of an NDN doesn't mean they have no culture. Although that is how you choose to interpret it. Us 'lighter NDNs' obviously don't rate much in your book.
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Old 07-21-2004, 06:10 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kiwehnzii
Dontcha ever say anything negative about Kakeeyas nation. (other than they have smelly feet) Ayyee, jus kiddin.
I'm not saying anything negative about any nation as a whole. I'm just saying there are NDNs of different shades and saying a head dancer who is 'light' is White is racist.
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Old 07-21-2004, 06:12 PM   #20
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Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Canada eh!
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spirit of Seattle
The original statement was about 'white' colored folks being head dancers and how dare they.
I responded 'did you card them'? Meaning how do you know they weren't NDN, and enrolled.
I then said my friend joked about the differences in coloring. He wasn't being derogatory either, just making an observation. He is a very dark FBI and members of even his own family come in a range of hues.
My words are being twisted to infer that I offered insult to members of tribes in WA, OR, CA.
I did not and I don't appreciate being told I did.
I wasn't commenting on quantum ( "I don't think any of us here that are full bloods look white.")
or specific tribes; I was sharing a comment by a friend.
And, I'm sorry, but my experience at pow-wows at, say, Siletz and Grand Ronde--just to name two--there were alot of lighter skinned dancers.
Again, the original comment was about 'White' colored folk being head dancers.
And I say, again, why assume they are White in race? THAT'S ALL I SAID.
I think maybe you are the one who made the assumption that this thread was about lighter complexioned skins - I too thought they were talking about non-ndns as in white people - if she'd meant lighter complexion skins - that's what she'd have said.

I know that many tribes have people with lighter complexion and it doesn't make them any less a skin - I have a lighter complexion because I stay out of the sun as much as possible but I have all the other features that we ojibs have - no one would ever think I was white.

If anyone called me a white ndn I would rip them a new one if you know what I mean! Calling a skin white is an insult whether you're talking about lighter complexion or anything else.
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