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Old 12-02-2003, 06:11 AM   #1
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if a feather falls during grand entry prayer who and how do you tell

my question is this... if you are in grand entry, say in the middle of prayer (some pray with their eyes closed visa versa) if you see a feather fall and nobody else has yet, whom do you tell and how? ive heard many differnt answers to this and just thought id put this out there.
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Old 12-04-2003, 01:01 PM   #2
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_____

If it is an eagle feather . . .

the courteous thing to do is wait for the prayer to end and get the attention of the arena director and let him deal with it.
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Old 12-04-2003, 03:48 PM   #3
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Wait for the Prayer

By all means wait for the prayer to end. Keep track of the feather (wind, etc.) as you or someone gets attention of the Arena Director ASAP!

All feathers should get respect - Birds of Prey, Song Birds, Fowl, etc. Remember that there are many customs and ways when pertaining to feathers and animal parts.

Now retrieving the feather will depend on what kind of feather fell and on the Head Veteran, Veterans, and Arena Director.
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Old 12-04-2003, 04:35 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally posted by WhoMe
_____

If it is an eagle feather . . .

the courteous thing to do is wait for the prayer to end and get the attention of the arena director and let him deal with it.
That is what happened at the Skwlax PowWow. Some young fellow dropped around 4 small feathers. Felt bad for him, but the AD took care of it, and they had a song and prayers for it. People had danced around it, and then he gave tobacco and other items back for the help that he recieved.
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Old 12-04-2003, 08:14 PM   #5
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Unhappy

I was at a pow-wow and they stopped the whole thing. The guy who dropped it was almost shamed out. I hope Inever drop one.
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Old 12-05-2003, 12:29 PM   #6
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On my rez a fallen eagle feather is truly viewed as a warrior who has gone down. If your comrade fell during a prayer, would you wait until the prayer was over to see to him?

Someone will alert the whip man to the fallen feather, he will then take care of it until it is appropriate to pick it up via a pick up song.
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Old 12-06-2003, 03:44 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally posted by kneegrow_native
On my rez a fallen eagle feather is truly viewed as a warrior who has gone down. If your comrade fell during a prayer, would you wait until the prayer was over to see to him?

Someone will alert the whip man to the fallen feather, he will then take care of it until it is appropriate to pick it up via a pick up song.
Wa'do (thank you) for your post. this is exactly how i feel. ive been told many different ways to approach this but this is what rings true in my heart.
the reason i started this thread is because it actually happened to me and it was during prayer. i was standing not far from the ring entrance and i spotted a veteran across from me. i went to him because i could not catch his eye to show him. he handled it right then. i was later told the mcee found this rude since i interrupted the prayer. i politely as i could told him how disrespectful i felt he was not only to me personally but to our traditions. ive never been back to that powwow. many blessings ,cougie
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Old 12-08-2003, 12:43 PM   #8
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______

When in Sioux country, you respect their ways.

When Omaha country, likewise.

When in England . . . ?

What is more important, interrupting talk with the Creator or picking up a symbolic warrior?
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Old 12-08-2003, 03:15 PM   #9
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Yeah, I hear you there, when in Rome do as the Romans do. But there are some people who will absolutely want to handle their feathers the way they want to. It's kind of a tough argument.

I was a floor man for one pow-wow where they do not do feather pick up songs. A dancer dropped a feather and really wanted a feather pick up song because that was his way. The committee was nice enough to let him have his song and he reimbursed the committee.

At another pow-wow, a dancer dropped his feather, and he had his dad (a veteran and ceremonial man) pick up for him right there, as he was taught. However on this rez they were strict about having feather pick songs for all eagle feathers. They made him bring his feather back out and do a song.

Whistled and fanned songs are looked upon as being prayers. A few times at pow-wows I have seen whislted and fanned songs stopped by elders or whip people to deal with feathers.

Me personally, if it was my feather, I would have covered it right away, even if during a prayer.
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Last edited by kneegrow_native; 12-08-2003 at 03:22 PM..
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Old 12-08-2003, 03:28 PM   #10
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i was taught to let the arena director know after the prayer is over. the arena director would get the appropiate persons together to retrieve the feather.
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Old 12-08-2003, 04:45 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally posted by WhoMe
______

When in Sioux country, you respect their ways.

When Omaha country, likewise.

When in England . . . ?

What is more important, interrupting talk with the Creator or picking up a symbolic warrior?


the powwow i was at was in ohio not here in england. i believe Creator gave us these traditions and rituals. i think it honors him when we adhere to them. why else would He have given them to us in the first place? but it is true, if you are at for ex. an omaha powwow (which i have had the honor to be, i am from omaha neb.) you follow their traditions unless it compromises your relationship with Creator. then you still treat them and their ways with respect and honor but as a by-stander. cougie
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Old 12-09-2003, 07:31 PM   #12
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Talking nother question

what if you see a little fancy shawl dancer running around the outside of the arena holding her chili dog in one hand and her barrettes and rather LARGE plumes in the same hand and then she drops the plumes in the dirt.do you say something to her or her parents or say nothing at all?
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Old 12-10-2003, 06:21 AM   #13
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im assuming that this is a young girl. yes i would. they should be helping her learn respect and the ways of our people. if they werent trying to do so she probably wouldnt be there in the first place. what could it hurt to say in a kind respectful way that she is having a bit of a problem and that may be they should point out to her that she shouldnt be juggling chili dogs, barrettes and plumes. all they can do is tell ya to mind your own. but i find people are usually open to suggestions as long as you approach them in the right way.
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Old 12-10-2003, 11:20 AM   #14
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______

Again . . . eagle feathers hold a special position of prominence among traditional American Indian and First Nations peoples.

However, the treatment of eagle feathers differs both with tribes and individuals. Eagle feathers are handled differently in different powwow arenas as well.

Some powwows will stop the entire powwow and have a feather pickup ceremony. Then the person who drops the feather will giveaway of acknowledgement.

Other powwows will have a veteran pick up the feather. The veteran will then tell a war story and the dropped feather will be gifted to the veteran.

I have also witnessed at some older traditional powwows where the adult who drops an eagle feather will be instructed to pick it up and not interupt the flow of the powwow.

When in Rome . . .

At contest powwows, the frequency of which children and young people own and wear eagle feathers is astounding! Our ancestors would roll over in their graves if they were alive to witness this "spectical."

In ceremony, eagle feathers often are intentionally placed on the ground. Hmmmm?




"Eagle feathers are as sacred as the wearer believes them to be." WhoMe, 2003.
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Old 12-10-2003, 05:32 PM   #15
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very interesting!! ive heard that they are sometimes intentionally placed on the ground. do you know the reasoning behind this? thanks, cougie
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Old 12-10-2003, 06:44 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally posted by cougarwalker
very interesting!! ive heard that they are sometimes intentionally placed on the ground. do you know the reasoning behind this? thanks, cougie
Cougarwalker:

I will mention the word ceremony. But unfortunately, I won't elaborate what I have seen. It's not my place. Sorry.
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Old 12-10-2003, 06:58 PM   #17
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dropped feathers

if it is an eagle feather than it should be dealt with by the owner if no one claims it then it is up to the arena director. if anyone recalls the why the dance started and a circle formed then it would be understood about the importance of eagle feathers, other feathers were not awarded to warriors. as to the prayer, it is that person's prayer not yours so i wouldn't feel bad about what the emcee said
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Old 12-11-2003, 08:36 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally posted by WhoMe
Cougarwalker:

I will mention the word ceremony. But unfortunately, I won't elaborate what I have seen. It's not my place. Sorry.
i totally understand! cougie
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Old 12-11-2003, 08:42 AM   #19
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Re: dropped feathers

Quote:
Originally posted by robby
if it is an eagle feather than it should be dealt with by the owner if no one claims it then it is up to the arena director. if anyone recalls the why the dance started and a circle formed then it would be understood about the importance of eagle feathers, other feathers were not awarded to warriors. as to the prayer, it is that person's prayer not yours so i wouldn't feel bad about what the emcee said
Thanks Robby! I guess with my husband be military, dropped feathers signify a loss that could touch my life in a very dramatic way. and when i see it my heart breaks for the familys who have lost loved ones. past and present. cougie
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Old 12-15-2003, 03:27 PM   #20
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All Feathers

Everyone has great posts.

I like the fact that many see the unique differences of taken care of a situation from Tribe to Tribe and from one Cultural Area to another Cultural Area.

Just wanted to re-empasize that All Feathers Are Important and that one should Honor All Feathers.

Remember - what is a Warrior Feather to one may not be to another and vice versa. For instance - in several tribes Yellow and Red Flicker Feathers are Warrior Feathers, in other tribes Raven Feathers are Warrior Feathers, for the Seminole the Feathers of the White Egret were Warrior Feathers.

One must think of the Cutural Area and the ways of those people. And has many have said - repsect the ways of the place of which you might be visiting, etc.
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