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Old 06-19-2004, 04:15 PM   #1
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Exclamation Old Drumming Rules

Whatever happen to "not singing others songs without buying 'THE RIGHTS' first?"

There are many drums singing other drums songs, most not even of the same tribe, just hackin' the songs up badly.

I've asked a few where they got 'that song' and they were "...uhh off a tape." Just doesn't seem right at all.

It's worse when your at the same powwow and they jam on your song first...? Worse yet in a Singing Contest...so yeah who can enforce these...I know a "really goot drum judge" would score them a nice fat ZERO but well most just go by the "sound" of it all rather than the history, copyrights, tribal rights, ownerships and singing slash song rights!
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Old 07-15-2004, 11:27 PM   #2
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Angry

I agree this should be a rule, I remeber years ago it was a big rule and it gots lost somewhere. Just like jingle side step, don't see anyone side step like they used to. it is very disappointing if they sing your song first. i think all drums should be judged on at least one orginal song they make. That would narrow drum contests down big time.
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Old 07-20-2004, 03:09 AM   #3
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I don't know....

Just sounds 2 me someone sings "your" songs better then you do.....
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Old 07-31-2004, 12:07 AM   #4
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I've talked to a few ole timmers that say very few groups still use the old rules...not just about the songs, but about the protocal around the drum as well...times are changing and with that people are throwing out the rules along with it.
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Old 08-04-2004, 11:18 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Coyot_In_The_House
Just sounds 2 me someone sings "your" songs better then you do.....
Please, grow up! The last time someone sang our song mispronounced a few words and was quite funny since after translation they were singing about parts they had. :rofl2: If I recall you there all into it too, :mocking:
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Old 08-05-2004, 12:21 AM   #6
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Smile Old Drumming Rules...

Quote:
Originally Posted by jumpingbuffalo
Whatever happen to "not singing others songs without buying 'THE RIGHTS' first?"

There are many drums singing other drums songs, most not even of the same tribe, just hackin' the songs up badly.

I've asked a few where they got 'that song' and they were "...uhh off a tape." Just doesn't seem right at all.

It's worse when your at the same powwow and they jam on your song first...? Worse yet in a Singing Contest...so yeah who can enforce these...I know a "really goot drum judge" would score them a nice fat ZERO but well most just go by the "sound" of it all rather than the history, copyrights, tribal rights, ownerships and singing slash song rights!
I know there are alot of groups out there the sing other peoples songs.. Which is good.. But its best to go up and ask for permission from the song maker or the group before singing it.
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Old 08-05-2004, 02:22 AM   #7
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One year at Little Shell powwow we were all sitting round' the camp eating supper and all of a sudden my 72 yr old tradish Arikara grandma took off toward the arbor :reallymad . We didn't know what the h*** was going on but turns out that the drum singing was singing my grandpa's song that was made for him after he got back from WWII without permission :NoNo !!!!!!!(He had already died back in the 60's)Wasn't even a drum from our rez but from Wisconsin. They got it off a tape that recorded it from his memorial giveaway that my grandma had back in the 80's :helpdesk: .Anywayz, they didn't know it was specially made for someone, and because they had respect for her they stopped right in the middle. Just goes to show it's better to make up and sing your own songs.
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Old 08-05-2004, 10:51 AM   #8
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I think that it goes to show that people should get permission from the person who made it, or someone who has the right to give permission, at the very least.

I know if I ever sing anyone elses song but our songs, then I find out whos song it is, if we have permission to sing it, and what it is used for.

I look at it like someones personal property. Some people don't mind when you borrow things as long as you be respectful and put it back the way you found it, and some people don't want to share for all sorts of reasons. Could be that it's a memorial song only sung at ceremonies, could be just a song that someone made for someone else. Could be anything. I just found that it's easier to ask before, saves face.
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Old 08-05-2004, 10:03 PM   #9
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Thumbs up Old Drumming Rules...

Quote:
Originally Posted by The_HULK
I think that it goes to show that people should get permission from the person who made it, or someone who has the right to give permission, at the very least.

I know if I ever sing anyone elses song but our songs, then I find out whos song it is, if we have permission to sing it, and what it is used for.

I look at it like someones personal property. Some people don't mind when you borrow things as long as you be respectful and put it back the way you found it, and some people don't want to share for all sorts of reasons. Could be that it's a memorial song only sung at ceremonies, could be just a song that someone made for someone else. Could be anything. I just found that it's easier to ask before, saves face.
I couldn't have said it better.. Aho!
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Old 08-06-2004, 07:21 PM   #10
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Yeah it's often abused, no rights and sure if a drum can jam that doesn't matters, rights should be upheld and penalties enforced, whatever happen to "fining" the bad drums? Seems most drums can only sing intertribals and contest songs nowadays anyway, but for the OG drums who have the rights to make, compose and sing a person or families songs there are still ways that should be followed, honored and such. But I know most drum judges should have the knowledge of who's song belongs to who and who has the rights to sing it and if they acquired it properly or not. There are so many Northern songs being turned into Southern songs. I can see how in this almost "new age powwow" everyone just wants to have fun and get paid and well every powwow is dif, so yeah I was just asking bout this to see if I'd get any responses. k. thx.
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Old 08-07-2004, 11:14 AM   #11
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As long as we are talking about ettiquete, the one thing that really gets on my nerve is drum groups that beat on their drum and sing while someone else who is suppossed to be singing is singing. Way disrespectful.

Regarding leaving out rules: I've said it once before and I'll say it one more time for kicks :D ... It seems as if some folks are perfectly content to die a slow and contemporary death.
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Old 08-10-2004, 08:45 PM   #12
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junk post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Coyot_In_The_House
Just sounds 2 me someone sings "your" songs better then you do.....

that post is STOOOOPID!

:P
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Old 08-11-2004, 06:06 PM   #13
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If a song is on tape, 8 track, CD for sale it becomes available for most any drums to sing.

If a song is sung at one's home ground and is a family song, most MC's should and will make that announcement over the loud speaker the song should be sung on request only.

Just because a group comes out with a CD does not make them knowledgeable. I have been hearing that more and more over the last 5 years.
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Old 08-13-2004, 06:55 PM   #14
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Talking

Yeah I've heard that one before, "if it's cut on CD/tape, anyone can sing it." On the contrary that solidifies the copyrights to the song, "no reproduction, " so that's null and void.

Ya'know I'm not trying to take the fun outta singing, but if you set up a drum, make your own songs, if not adopt them rightfully by paying for the rights to sing em. Don't just steal them and call yourself a drum group, it takes more than that.

It just totally bites when you're in the midst of competition and someone sings your song (better or worse doesn't matter) because that forces you to change up.

Hopefully the judges can catch that, but I imagine it's missed.

I just can't stand these phoney drums acting all bad cause they sing other drums hard earned songs and get off all cheap on it. hmm...hope I don't sound like a grouch. I just ddon't like the phoney-ness of it all, is all, ha.

I however like the saying about being perfectly content with going contemporary all the way to hell (was it?) ha, but I get it and it's happening more and more, I keep waiting for neon electric lights on some dancers and glow in the dark drums with mixing sound boards to rap during a contest song.

Ayyyeeeee
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Old 08-17-2004, 02:20 PM   #15
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I heard before from an elder from Saskatchewan, he said.. the songs belong to the people, a song isnt one persons property, and songs are to be shared. If you dont want people to sing your songs, or if you want to be cheap and not share your songs.. you might as well sing them in the bathroom.

Thats the way I was taught. But yeah I think that it woudl be rude for someone to sing another drums song, if they were both at the same powwow, unless someone gave some tobacco. But people should know the significance of a song before they decide to sing it, like wtih the song for the veteran in the other post,etc. Family songs, personal songs... You gotta know what your singin.. before you decide to sing it.... Other then the special songs,...

I think theres just a hella lotta cheap Indians these days
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Old 08-17-2004, 06:22 PM   #16
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Once the songs are recorded and sold on CD, Isn't the one who purchases it now the owner?? And who ever recorded and sold a song meant as a memorial giveaway, is in the wrong, such things should not be sold off, don't ya think maybe??

IMHO
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Old 08-18-2004, 07:39 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ojipelodoba
Once the songs are recorded and sold on CD, Isn't the one who purchases it now the owner?? And who ever recorded and sold a song meant as a memorial giveaway, is in the wrong, such things should not be sold off, don't ya think maybe??

IMHO
No, do ya think all these Country, Rap and Rock Stars have their songs song by others? There are specific copyrights and it says right on the tape "Any unauthorized reproduction in any form is illegal. So yes you can own the tape but not the songs.

I'm not sure what ya mean by the 2nd and 3rd questions, but umm it's rude to record such songs unless allowed to by the fam or person, but to take it and profit off it is wrong.
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Old 08-19-2004, 06:02 AM   #18
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I hear what youre aying Ojip... if that memorial song is that important to you, then maybe putting it on your lastet CD is somthing to really think about.

A lot of the old guys here say if you can remember a song, it is yours. That's the old way of things. They talk about song carriers a lot and say that really, a person cannot say where a song is to go because a person generally does not know where that one song is to go. Thats the way they did it there long ago and that's how they do it today. That's our tradition anyhow.

From a legal standpoint, if you sing a copywritten song and make money off that song in anyway you owe a publishing fee to the person who owns the copyright - which may or may not be the original writer. You don't have to pay mechanicals or royalties or any of that stuff because you are singing and performing it yourself. You just have to pay the publishing (if they know you are doing it, find you, and collect - there are agencies for that though), which is where the real money is at. That's how the law is anyhow ;)

I see dancers cop each others moves and style all the time, in that sort of climate it is tough to justify some of the old contemp. drum rules. I have a contemp. drum from the 70s that a local elder uses to sing on and he spent quite a bit of time going over them... nothing like a tradish drum... but he did it the same way - if he made up a ong and someone ang it later, he jut let them sing it because the osng was theirs now. He also said it is a competition, you have to expect some lifting and stealing in that kind of enviroment.

And that, my friends, is why I don't have anything to do with contests. My wife sure loves 'em tho. :D
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