Register Groups Members List Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Like Tree46Likes

Forum Home - Go Back > Pow Wow Arena > Pow Wow Talk > Pow Wow FAQ's Southwest "mexican" history after Cortes Southwest "mexican" history after Cortes

Reply LinkBack Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 10-02-2014, 03:53 PM   #21
Junior Dancer
 
User InfoThanks / Tagging InfoGifts / Achievements / AwardsvBActivity Stats
koyoteh is off the scalekoyoteh is off the scalekoyoteh is off the scalekoyoteh is off the scalekoyoteh is off the scalekoyoteh is off the scalekoyoteh is off the scalekoyoteh is off the scalekoyoteh is off the scalekoyoteh is off the scalekoyoteh is off the scalekoyoteh is off the scalekoyoteh is off the scalekoyoteh is off the scale
Join Date: Sep 2014
Posts: 104
Credits: 570.41
Savings: 0.00
Quote:
Originally Posted by gilisi View Post
WTF are you then?

You sound Mexican.

I know a few Mexican natives who speak their native languages, who are in touch with whats left of their culture BEFORE occupation.

They don't spew this garbage.
i can see how that , out of context , can be confusing.

when i say WE became THEM, i mean so many natives took up colonial ways.

shoot, even some of you guys, whom some of you i already looked up in facebook, i can see are very colonized.

its just what happened. Happened to everybody. NO ONE was left untouched.

As far as those ones you mention in mexico who managed to retain,
how long ago did they spew anything at all? I mean how long ago was it that they spoke to you about themselves?

if you are alive, then i will say its very recent.

This is important.

FOr a centuries natives in mexico were the lowest of the low as far as the spanish govt and classes were concerned.
So so many natives got tired of the treatment and stopped talking and saying anything about being native.

its barely recently that they are now speaking up.

and they are speaking up because of the efforts of the disconnected natives trying to reclaim their identities, and speaking up for their rights, and making being native no longer a bad thing.

Yes, the lost disconnected native are the ones who paved the way for them to speak again.

and the zapatistas.

so its good if an intact native mexican tribe wants to speak up. but if they tell you who is so far, and isn't helping anyone, then it does none of us any good.

I am yaqui by the way. Yaquis are on both sides of the border.

but i am one of the traveling yaquis.
koyoteh is offline   Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
Old 10-02-2014, 04:10 PM   #22
Dances With Fat Chicks
 
milehighsalute's Avatar
 
User InfoThanks / Tagging InfoGifts / Achievements / AwardsvBActivity Stats
milehighsalute has a reputation beyond repute
milehighsalute has a reputation beyond reputemilehighsalute has a reputation beyond reputemilehighsalute has a reputation beyond reputemilehighsalute has a reputation beyond reputemilehighsalute has a reputation beyond reputemilehighsalute has a reputation beyond reputemilehighsalute has a reputation beyond reputemilehighsalute has a reputation beyond reputemilehighsalute has a reputation beyond reputemilehighsalute has a reputation beyond reputemilehighsalute has a reputation beyond reputemilehighsalute has a reputation beyond reputemilehighsalute has a reputation beyond reputemilehighsalute has a reputation beyond reputemilehighsalute has a reputation beyond reputemilehighsalute has a reputation beyond repute
Join Date: May 2012
Location: DENVER
Posts: 1,036
Credits: 27,237.05
Savings: 0.00
Quote:
Originally Posted by koyoteh View Post
legal status?
laws?

i talk about an old native story and you bring up colonial laws?

doesn't make sense.

but might make sense when i know lots of you dudes who been writing about aztlanistas on facebook and elsewhere here, are patriots and military.

and actually non natives.

in fact, so fact i have only come across one real native.
can't blame people for not knowing the stories and histories of other tribes.

of which so many natives don't know each others stuff.
you can look me up anytime........and i am NOT a non-native

i am very much native
windanncer, gilisi and koyoteh like this.
__________________
"I on the trail of a possible good Indian lady and she is reported to like the old way's and she to believes in big family and being at home with kids all the time"... - MOTOOPI aka WOUNDED BEAR
milehighsalute is offline   Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
Old 10-02-2014, 09:45 PM   #23
Pow Wow Committee
 
gilisi's Avatar
 
User InfoThanks / Tagging InfoGifts / Achievements / AwardsvBActivity Stats
gilisi has a reputation beyond reputegilisi has a reputation beyond reputegilisi has a reputation beyond reputegilisi has a reputation beyond repute
gilisi has a reputation beyond reputegilisi has a reputation beyond reputegilisi has a reputation beyond reputegilisi has a reputation beyond reputegilisi has a reputation beyond reputegilisi has a reputation beyond reputegilisi has a reputation beyond reputegilisi has a reputation beyond reputegilisi has a reputation beyond reputegilisi has a reputation beyond reputegilisi has a reputation beyond reputegilisi has a reputation beyond reputegilisi has a reputation beyond reputegilisi has a reputation beyond reputegilisi has a reputation beyond reputegilisi has a reputation beyond reputegilisi has a reputation beyond reputegilisi has a reputation beyond repute
Join Date: Feb 2014
Posts: 2,762
Credits: 51,815.61
Savings: 0.00
Quote:
Originally Posted by koyoteh View Post
legal status?
laws?

i talk about an old native story and you bring up colonial laws?

doesn't make sense.

but might make sense when i know lots of you dudes who been writing about aztlanistas on facebook and elsewhere here, are patriots and military.

and actually non natives.

in fact, so fact i have only come across one real native.
can't blame people for not knowing the stories and histories of other tribes.

of which so many natives don't know each others stuff.
I didnt even see this until you quoted it @milehighsalute. @koyoteh If you had read the threads that you have posted on in their entirety you would know a little more about this native too.

The reason I made the reference to 'law' was to illustrate the fact that U.S. history and Mexican history are very different. Also, to assert that it is illogical to look at Mexico's past in order to somehow divine our own future here.

I can trace my ancestry to tribal people who made war in the courtrooms dating back to when these colonial laws were still wet ink in a blank book.
windanncer likes this.
__________________
When you are dead you don't know that you are dead. It is difficult only for the others. It is the same when you are stupid.

"Show me somethin"
gilisi is offline   Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
Old 10-02-2014, 10:09 PM   #24
Junior Dancer
 
User InfoThanks / Tagging InfoGifts / Achievements / AwardsvBActivity Stats
koyoteh is off the scalekoyoteh is off the scalekoyoteh is off the scalekoyoteh is off the scalekoyoteh is off the scalekoyoteh is off the scalekoyoteh is off the scalekoyoteh is off the scalekoyoteh is off the scalekoyoteh is off the scalekoyoteh is off the scalekoyoteh is off the scalekoyoteh is off the scalekoyoteh is off the scale
Join Date: Sep 2014
Posts: 104
Credits: 570.41
Savings: 0.00
Quote:
Originally Posted by milehighsalute View Post
you can look me up anytime........and i am NOT a non-native

i am very much native

still getting to know ya.

cool. just checking where you were coming from.

i hear people bring up legal status a lot, but mostly in a negative way to tear others down.

i see you did not mean it that way.

i have have a bro that lives far, used to live hear but grew up on a rez and to ask people their tribe waas no big deal. It was kind of a cool thing to do.

but here in cities when thats gets asked, its different.
This is a place where gang style attitudes exist and being hit up with where ya from ? is a precursor to violence.

so when some natives asks a city native where ya from? it can take a little bit to figure out in what manner they are asking.
koyoteh is offline   Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
Old 10-02-2014, 10:21 PM   #25
Junior Dancer
 
User InfoThanks / Tagging InfoGifts / Achievements / AwardsvBActivity Stats
koyoteh is off the scalekoyoteh is off the scalekoyoteh is off the scalekoyoteh is off the scalekoyoteh is off the scalekoyoteh is off the scalekoyoteh is off the scalekoyoteh is off the scalekoyoteh is off the scalekoyoteh is off the scalekoyoteh is off the scalekoyoteh is off the scalekoyoteh is off the scalekoyoteh is off the scale
Join Date: Sep 2014
Posts: 104
Credits: 570.41
Savings: 0.00
Quote:
Originally Posted by gilisi View Post
I didnt even see this until you quoted it @milehighsalute. @koyoteh If you had read the threads that you have posted on in their entirety you would know a little more about this native too.

The reason I made the reference to 'law' was to illustrate the fact that U.S. history and Mexican history are very different. Also, to assert that it is illogical to look at Mexico's past in order to somehow divine our own future here.

I can trace my ancestry to tribal people who made war in the courtrooms dating back to when these colonial laws were still wet ink in a blank book.

i am supposed to figure out you mean all that by you mentioning law stuff?

when referencing , just get to the point. tell about why you referenced. its more interesting. ANd less of a riddle and less cryptic.
I am very interested in what you said. that they are different you say. But you didn't say WHY you feel they are different. WHy do you feel they are different?

u.s. history and mexican history are different on some points , yet very much the same on others.

the invasions and colonization in the americans started off down south 200-300 years or so before the arrival on the u.s. west coast.

you mention that a lot of history took place in the courts. YEs you are right. I read a native law book that was really a history book. One of my favorite books and i am one that doestn' even trust a lot of books out there. but you are right. a lot of history is in court.

there were court cases in mexico too. shoot moctezumas daughter, married a spaniard who helped her take the spanish govt to court over land rights AND WON.
but they still didn't give her the lands back because they said it was too late, the lands were given away and would be too much of a hassle to redistribute.
yes court cases took place. Natives won here and there.

i for one do not think it illogical to look at mexicos past. i said its important to look at it. and thats because there never was a mexico before columbus or cortes. Just native lands. Use your native tongues name for the land if you have one. THere was no mexico. but i know you know that.

columbus kept a diary in which he blueprinted the methods to enslave the natives and take thier lands. It was passed onto Cortes and others.

by the time the english/brits arrived on the u.s. west coast they had some knowledge of how to take the lands because of the spanish experiences. EVen if they themselves were rivals.

as far as mile high salute is concerned. I wrote him back. still getting to know the guy.
only he so far has been well mannered. I can work with good manners even in disagreements.

and someone called me a newcomer.
I was on this site way back at least in 2009. In that amount of time since I have some new experiences, and even some of my views have either changed or calmed down or become more solid with new info.

Last edited by koyoteh; 10-02-2014 at 10:26 PM..
koyoteh is offline   Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
Old 10-02-2014, 10:33 PM   #26
Pow Wow Committee
 
gilisi's Avatar
 
User InfoThanks / Tagging InfoGifts / Achievements / AwardsvBActivity Stats
gilisi has a reputation beyond reputegilisi has a reputation beyond reputegilisi has a reputation beyond reputegilisi has a reputation beyond repute
gilisi has a reputation beyond reputegilisi has a reputation beyond reputegilisi has a reputation beyond reputegilisi has a reputation beyond reputegilisi has a reputation beyond reputegilisi has a reputation beyond reputegilisi has a reputation beyond reputegilisi has a reputation beyond reputegilisi has a reputation beyond reputegilisi has a reputation beyond reputegilisi has a reputation beyond reputegilisi has a reputation beyond reputegilisi has a reputation beyond reputegilisi has a reputation beyond reputegilisi has a reputation beyond reputegilisi has a reputation beyond reputegilisi has a reputation beyond reputegilisi has a reputation beyond repute
Join Date: Feb 2014
Posts: 2,762
Credits: 51,815.61
Savings: 0.00
Quote:
Originally Posted by koyoteh View Post
when referencing , just get to the point. tell about why you referenced. its more interesting. ANd less of a riddle and less cryptic.

i am supposed to figure out you mean all that by you mentioning law stuff?
u.s. history and mexican history are different on some points , yet very much the same on others.

i for one do not think it illogical to look at mexicos past. i said its important to look at it.

columbus kept a diary in which he blueprinted the methods to enslave the natives and take thier lands. It was passed onto Cortes and others.

as far as mile high salute is concerned. I wrote him back. still getting to know the guy.
only he so far has been well mannered. I can work with good manners even in disagreements.

and someone called me a newcomer.
I was on this site way back at least in 2009. In that amount of time since I have some new experiences, and even some of my views have either changed or calmed down or become more solid with new info.
You have produced the most ill mannered posts I have seen in a long time. You say you can work with good manners, but you don't seem to follow your own rules.

My post wasn't cryptic for someone paying attention.

It was in response to your suggestion (stated as fact by you) that we need to pay more attention to Mexican history in order to divine our future.

You misquoted me again. I didn't say it is illogical to look at Mexico's past, I said it's illogical to assume that Natives north of the border can divine their future by looking at Mexicos past.

I'm done with you coyote.

You can sing kumbaya with milehigh all you want... I am still looking forward to see your response to the elder on these threads.

Or was there something else you meant to say with these words?

"Natives north, south, and central, all share a similar history.
but some are at different stages of the colonization and assimilation processes.

If we do not learn about what happened to the natives in 'mexico' and the carribean islands, who were the first to be hit, then we will fail to learn about the stages of the processes and see where WE ain OUR tribes are at today in the stages of these processes. AND THEN WE will all end up the same way that those first tribes who were hit ended up ....
disconnected. Gang infested. culturally changed. etc

Learn 'mexican' history and puerto rican history. THEY were first to be hit."
__________________
When you are dead you don't know that you are dead. It is difficult only for the others. It is the same when you are stupid.

"Show me somethin"

Last edited by gilisi; 10-02-2014 at 10:35 PM..
gilisi is offline   Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
Old 10-02-2014, 10:52 PM   #27
The voices tell me...
 
Joe's Dad's Avatar
 
Items CatCatCatCat
User InfoThanks / Tagging InfoGifts / Achievements / AwardsvBActivity Stats
Joe's Dad has a reputation beyond reputeJoe's Dad has a reputation beyond reputeJoe's Dad has a reputation beyond repute
Joe's Dad has a reputation beyond reputeJoe's Dad has a reputation beyond reputeJoe's Dad has a reputation beyond reputeJoe's Dad has a reputation beyond reputeJoe's Dad has a reputation beyond reputeJoe's Dad has a reputation beyond reputeJoe's Dad has a reputation beyond reputeJoe's Dad has a reputation beyond reputeJoe's Dad has a reputation beyond reputeJoe's Dad has a reputation beyond reputeJoe's Dad has a reputation beyond reputeJoe's Dad has a reputation beyond reputeJoe's Dad has a reputation beyond reputeJoe's Dad has a reputation beyond reputeJoe's Dad has a reputation beyond reputeJoe's Dad has a reputation beyond reputeJoe's Dad has a reputation beyond reputeJoe's Dad has a reputation beyond reputeJoe's Dad has a reputation beyond repute
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: I'm right here!
Posts: 15,633
Credits: 100,184.91
Savings: 1.00
Quote:
Originally Posted by koyoteh View Post
i am supposed to figure out you mean all that by you mentioning law stuff?

when referencing , just get to the point. tell about why you referenced. its more interesting. ANd less of a riddle and less cryptic.
I am very interested in what you said. that they are different you say. But you didn't say WHY you feel they are different. WHy do you feel they are different?

u.s. history and mexican history are different on some points , yet very much the same on others.

the invasions and colonization in the americans started off down south 200-300 years or so before the arrival on the u.s. west coast.

you mention that a lot of history took place in the courts. YEs you are right. I read a native law book that was really a history book. One of my favorite books and i am one that doestn' even trust a lot of books out there. but you are right. a lot of history is in court.

there were court cases in mexico too. shoot moctezumas daughter, married a spaniard who helped her take the spanish govt to court over land rights AND WON.
but they still didn't give her the lands back because they said it was too late, the lands were given away and would be too much of a hassle to redistribute.
yes court cases took place. Natives won here and there.

i for one do not think it illogical to look at mexicos past. i said its important to look at it. and thats because there never was a mexico before columbus or cortes. Just native lands. Use your native tongues name for the land if you have one. THere was no mexico. but i know you know that.

columbus kept a diary in which he blueprinted the methods to enslave the natives and take thier lands. It was passed onto Cortes and others.

by the time the english/brits arrived on the u.s. west coast they had some knowledge of how to take the lands because of the spanish experiences. EVen if they themselves were rivals.

as far as mile high salute is concerned. I wrote him back. still getting to know the guy.
only he so far has been well mannered. I can work with good manners even in disagreements.

and someone called me a newcomer.
I was on this site way back at least in 2009. In that amount of time since I have some new experiences, and even some of my views have either changed or calmed down or become more solid with new info.
I've asked some questions specifically directed at you. I did it at 5:30 his morning. It's now almost 8:00.

The thread is about the 'myth of atzlan and aztec hobbyists'. I'm writing here just in case you haven't seen them

No rhetoric needed. They are straight up question. Maybe you have some good answers. It's all about atzlan, homie.
windanncer and gilisi like this.
__________________


Why must I feel like that..why must I chase the cat?


"When I was young man I did some dumb things and the elders would talk to me. Sometimes I listened. Time went by and as I looked around...I was the elder".

Mr. Rossie Freeman
Joe's Dad is offline   Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
Old 10-03-2014, 12:02 AM   #28
Dances With Fat Chicks
 
milehighsalute's Avatar
 
User InfoThanks / Tagging InfoGifts / Achievements / AwardsvBActivity Stats
milehighsalute has a reputation beyond repute
milehighsalute has a reputation beyond reputemilehighsalute has a reputation beyond reputemilehighsalute has a reputation beyond reputemilehighsalute has a reputation beyond reputemilehighsalute has a reputation beyond reputemilehighsalute has a reputation beyond reputemilehighsalute has a reputation beyond reputemilehighsalute has a reputation beyond reputemilehighsalute has a reputation beyond reputemilehighsalute has a reputation beyond reputemilehighsalute has a reputation beyond reputemilehighsalute has a reputation beyond reputemilehighsalute has a reputation beyond reputemilehighsalute has a reputation beyond reputemilehighsalute has a reputation beyond reputemilehighsalute has a reputation beyond repute
Join Date: May 2012
Location: DENVER
Posts: 1,036
Credits: 27,237.05
Savings: 0.00
Quote:
Originally Posted by koyoteh View Post
i am supposed to figure out you mean all that by you mentioning law stuff?

when referencing , just get to the point. tell about why you referenced. its more interesting. ANd less of a riddle and less cryptic.
I am very interested in what you said. that they are different you say. But you didn't say WHY you feel they are different. WHy do you feel they are different?

u.s. history and mexican history are different on some points , yet very much the same on others.

the invasions and colonization in the americans started off down south 200-300 years or so before the arrival on the u.s. west coast.

you mention that a lot of history took place in the courts. YEs you are right. I read a native law book that was really a history book. One of my favorite books and i am one that doestn' even trust a lot of books out there. but you are right. a lot of history is in court.

there were court cases in mexico too. shoot moctezumas daughter, married a spaniard who helped her take the spanish govt to court over land rights AND WON.
but they still didn't give her the lands back because they said it was too late, the lands were given away and would be too much of a hassle to redistribute.
yes court cases took place. Natives won here and there.

i for one do not think it illogical to look at mexicos past. i said its important to look at it. and thats because there never was a mexico before columbus or cortes. Just native lands. Use your native tongues name for the land if you have one. THere was no mexico. but i know you know that.

columbus kept a diary in which he blueprinted the methods to enslave the natives and take thier lands. It was passed onto Cortes and others.

by the time the english/brits arrived on the u.s. west coast they had some knowledge of how to take the lands because of the spanish experiences. EVen if they themselves were rivals.

as far as mile high salute is concerned. I wrote him back. still getting to know the guy.
only he so far has been well mannered. I can work with good manners even in disagreements.


and someone called me a newcomer.
I was on this site way back at least in 2009. In that amount of time since I have some new experiences, and even some of my views have either changed or calmed down or become more solid with new info.
actually i wear an azzhat.....but i put it away because i am trying to learn
gilisi likes this.
__________________
"I on the trail of a possible good Indian lady and she is reported to like the old way's and she to believes in big family and being at home with kids all the time"... - MOTOOPI aka WOUNDED BEAR
milehighsalute is offline   Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
Old 10-03-2014, 12:10 AM   #29
Dances With Fat Chicks
 
milehighsalute's Avatar
 
User InfoThanks / Tagging InfoGifts / Achievements / AwardsvBActivity Stats
milehighsalute has a reputation beyond repute
milehighsalute has a reputation beyond reputemilehighsalute has a reputation beyond reputemilehighsalute has a reputation beyond reputemilehighsalute has a reputation beyond reputemilehighsalute has a reputation beyond reputemilehighsalute has a reputation beyond reputemilehighsalute has a reputation beyond reputemilehighsalute has a reputation beyond reputemilehighsalute has a reputation beyond reputemilehighsalute has a reputation beyond reputemilehighsalute has a reputation beyond reputemilehighsalute has a reputation beyond reputemilehighsalute has a reputation beyond reputemilehighsalute has a reputation beyond reputemilehighsalute has a reputation beyond reputemilehighsalute has a reputation beyond repute
Join Date: May 2012
Location: DENVER
Posts: 1,036
Credits: 27,237.05
Savings: 0.00
Quote:
Originally Posted by koyoteh View Post
still getting to know ya.

cool. just checking where you were coming from.

i hear people bring up legal status a lot, but mostly in a negative way to tear others down.

i see you did not mean it that way.

i have have a bro that lives far, used to live hear but grew up on a rez and to ask people their tribe waas no big deal. It was kind of a cool thing to do.

but here in cities when thats gets asked, its different.
This is a place where gang style attitudes exist and being hit up with where ya from ? is a precursor to violence.

so when some natives asks a city native where ya from? it can take a little bit to figure out in what manner they are asking.
ok......us natives that originate in the states and even canada are different......

we live in a pretty small world where everyone knows everyone somehow or knows someone who knows you

when you come on the scene, especially if you are not known....the first thing someone will ask is WHO ARE YOUR PEOPLE?WHO IS YOUR FAMILY? WHERE DO YOU COME FROM?.......especially amongst us powwow ndnz

and i grew up in a chicano gang neighborhood and was part of a chicano gang.....which pulled me away from ndn activities......but i never seen an ndn asking who my people were as a challenge.....most are happy to tell another ndn

i went to vets powwow in southgate LA, twice......no one seemed to have a problem with "where you from?".......they knew exactly what i meant

but then again it was a north american ndn powwow........though i saw alot of danzates there and they even did an exhibition
__________________
"I on the trail of a possible good Indian lady and she is reported to like the old way's and she to believes in big family and being at home with kids all the time"... - MOTOOPI aka WOUNDED BEAR
milehighsalute is offline   Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
Old 10-03-2014, 12:10 AM   #30
Junior Dancer
 
User InfoThanks / Tagging InfoGifts / Achievements / AwardsvBActivity Stats
koyoteh is off the scalekoyoteh is off the scalekoyoteh is off the scalekoyoteh is off the scalekoyoteh is off the scalekoyoteh is off the scalekoyoteh is off the scalekoyoteh is off the scalekoyoteh is off the scalekoyoteh is off the scalekoyoteh is off the scalekoyoteh is off the scalekoyoteh is off the scalekoyoteh is off the scale
Join Date: Sep 2014
Posts: 104
Credits: 570.41
Savings: 0.00
Quote:
Originally Posted by gilisi View Post
You have produced the most ill mannered posts I have seen in a long time. You say you can work with good manners, but you don't seem to follow your own rules.

My post wasn't cryptic for someone paying attention.

It was in response to your suggestion (stated as fact by you) that we need to pay more attention to Mexican history in order to divine our future.

You misquoted me again. I didn't say it is illogical to look at Mexico's past, I said it's illogical to assume that Natives north of the border can divine their future by looking at Mexicos past.

I'm done with you coyote.

You can sing kumbaya with milehigh all you want... I am still looking forward to see your response to the elder on these threads.

Or was there something else you meant to say with these words?

"Natives north, south, and central, all share a similar history.
but some are at different stages of the colonization and assimilation processes.

If we do not learn about what happened to the natives in 'mexico' and the carribean islands, who were the first to be hit, then we will fail to learn about the stages of the processes and see where WE ain OUR tribes are at today in the stages of these processes. AND THEN WE will all end up the same way that those first tribes who were hit ended up ....
disconnected. Gang infested. culturally changed. etc

Learn 'mexican' history and puerto rican history. THEY were first to be hit."

naw i didn't misquote you. but i see that you area saying thats not what you meant.
as far as learning native history in mesomaerica, there are processes that take place.
i never used the word divine. but i thiink i know what you mean by that. anyhow.
all the processes of colonization are the same. with some variations. In the end warrior societies turn into gangs. The people end up addicted and impoverished and then turn to crime.

This already happened to the natives down south, and has been happening here this side of the border recently. Its no coincidence.


no i have been civil. well mannered. Disagreement and not likeing what i state is not ill mannered.

Insults and attacking peoples character when you don't like something . is ill mannered.

pre judging people because they talk about a topic that you already don't like , is ill mannered.

COlumbus made a blueprint to colonize and its been followed ever since. All the phases of his system to colonize have been taking place all over the lands with many of the tribes , but begin at different time periods so different tribes are at different stages.
One of the first was to exploit tribal differences and grudges and bravado.

This is really all i see happening over and over in these threads.
koyoteh is offline   Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
Old 10-03-2014, 12:17 AM   #31
Junior Dancer
 
User InfoThanks / Tagging InfoGifts / Achievements / AwardsvBActivity Stats
koyoteh is off the scalekoyoteh is off the scalekoyoteh is off the scalekoyoteh is off the scalekoyoteh is off the scalekoyoteh is off the scalekoyoteh is off the scalekoyoteh is off the scalekoyoteh is off the scalekoyoteh is off the scalekoyoteh is off the scalekoyoteh is off the scalekoyoteh is off the scalekoyoteh is off the scale
Join Date: Sep 2014
Posts: 104
Credits: 570.41
Savings: 0.00
Quote:
Originally Posted by milehighsalute View Post
ok......us natives that originate in the states and even canada are different......

we live in a pretty small world where everyone knows everyone somehow or knows someone who knows you

when you come on the scene, especially if you are not known....the first thing someone will ask is WHO ARE YOUR PEOPLE?WHO IS YOUR FAMILY? WHERE DO YOU COME FROM?.......especially amongst us powwow ndnz

and i grew up in a chicano gang neighborhood and was part of a chicano gang.....which pulled me away from ndn activities......but i never seen an ndn asking who my people were as a challenge.....most are happy to tell another ndn

i went to vets powwow in southgate LA, twice......no one seemed to have a problem with "where you from?".......they knew exactly what i meant

but then again it was a north american ndn powwow........though i saw alot of danzates there and they even did an exhibition

i been around too and i know what you mean.

mexica dance circles though. Ehh. REall territorial. Theres a lot of rivalry.

I have experienced both positive and negative intentions when being asked that question. Especially when on the internet and its a touchy topic.

first thing many prejudgemental and angry natives, (again not saying you are that , we all know some though ) do is try to discredit the other person by asking them that question and to attack their character.

doesn't mean you are like that.

but some of the people herre did do that.

shoot in another thread , it just happened exactly that way. Gilisi even clicked like when they person did it.
koyoteh is offline   Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
Old 10-03-2014, 12:22 AM   #32
Junior Dancer
 
User InfoThanks / Tagging InfoGifts / Achievements / AwardsvBActivity Stats
koyoteh is off the scalekoyoteh is off the scalekoyoteh is off the scalekoyoteh is off the scalekoyoteh is off the scalekoyoteh is off the scalekoyoteh is off the scalekoyoteh is off the scalekoyoteh is off the scalekoyoteh is off the scalekoyoteh is off the scalekoyoteh is off the scalekoyoteh is off the scalekoyoteh is off the scale
Join Date: Sep 2014
Posts: 104
Credits: 570.41
Savings: 0.00
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe's Dad View Post
There are 'Tribes' in Mexico??? I know there are over 500 identified tribes in the United States. How many identified tribes are there in Mexico?

'ANyhow, many natives were forced into slavery. Many escaped and went north.
WHERE DID THEY GO?
many people do not like to ask this question. WHERE DID THEY GO?

THey went to live with natives in the north.'

This is the same lame excuse the white people use when they want to claim Indian. BTW Call someone from Mexico 'Indio' and you've picked yourself a fight.

So how tribes from the United States went 'SOUTH'? I don't think everybody went north.

'Are the north american tribes "american" ? simnply because the brits forced themselves on them?
No. Nor are they canadians because the french forced themselves upon them.

WE are not spanish, mexican, american, or canadians.'

Take away the geopolitical lines and still you have different cultures just by demographics. The jaguar warrior is not the same as the Cheyenne Dog Soldier. Take someone who speaks Nahuatl and put them in the cold regions of the uppermost part of the continent and they will not be able to communicate with someone who speaks Cree.


To lump Aztec Dancers with Chicken dancers because they have to 'make a living' is anogolous to saying (insert race here) people and (insert race here) people need to procreate in order to keep civilization alive.

What it seems you are trying to do is justify why Mexicans have dreamcatchers on the mirrors.
honestly , this has nothing to do with what i wrote. Its maybe about an assumption at best of what you might think my motivations are.
lumping dancers? where did i write that?
koyoteh is offline   Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
Old 10-03-2014, 12:28 AM   #33
Junior Dancer
 
User InfoThanks / Tagging InfoGifts / Achievements / AwardsvBActivity Stats
koyoteh is off the scalekoyoteh is off the scalekoyoteh is off the scalekoyoteh is off the scalekoyoteh is off the scalekoyoteh is off the scalekoyoteh is off the scalekoyoteh is off the scalekoyoteh is off the scalekoyoteh is off the scalekoyoteh is off the scalekoyoteh is off the scalekoyoteh is off the scalekoyoteh is off the scale
Join Date: Sep 2014
Posts: 104
Credits: 570.41
Savings: 0.00
Quote:
Originally Posted by milehighsalute View Post
for the record.......i never once said alot of mexican people arent indian.......the majority of mecico has ndn stock......no one denies that

they are lost though......the ones who didnt grow up in native societies at least

they are native if blood.....maybe even of heart (ha.....i sound like a new ager) but they are not native of mindset......they have the same good ol european values.......but natives dont think it makes them less of natives

some of us just get mad at the mixture of politics and the pushiness and claim of a birthright

no better way to turn a native off than being pushy

but i think some of us are more upset with the MISINFORMATION about their history

mexicas like to claim sw united states.......are you saying that all the tribes here in the SW didnt exist? or did they pay tribute? or were they such a non-factor your ancestors just walked around unimpeded? ......please enlighten me.......and lets compare that to the respective tribes of whatevr are you choose.....i would love to hear their version.........

truth be told my tribe kicked some aztec azz.....look up the tiguex wars

i just wonder why neo-aztecs always want to drag north american indians in their disputes with the US
i agree that there are native nazis out there who are pushy.
or act like jehovahs witenesses and get pushy tryingt to recruiot.
I say native nazis because i know about mexica-nazis and yes they love to talk about aztlan. but they don't know what the aztlan story even is about. nor do they know the whole story themselves.

I say native nazis because the mexica nazis are not the only one who behave that way.
i have come acroos so many superinjuns. and native nazis in my time. usually theyse types are youngsters. or are poeople who never really got to know the people they complain about.

we had a time over here in cali whent the lakotas extended a helping hand to help out chicanos get reconnected. This is why a lot of chicanos follow lakota ways and even speak lakota words. The lakotas camer out to help. BUt many also came out to recruit and were real real pushy.

so its not just a mexica problem. but somehow only the mexica get pinpointed.
milehighsalute likes this.
koyoteh is offline   Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
Old 10-03-2014, 12:38 AM   #34
Junior Dancer
 
User InfoThanks / Tagging InfoGifts / Achievements / AwardsvBActivity Stats
koyoteh is off the scalekoyoteh is off the scalekoyoteh is off the scalekoyoteh is off the scalekoyoteh is off the scalekoyoteh is off the scalekoyoteh is off the scalekoyoteh is off the scalekoyoteh is off the scalekoyoteh is off the scalekoyoteh is off the scalekoyoteh is off the scalekoyoteh is off the scalekoyoteh is off the scale
Join Date: Sep 2014
Posts: 104
Credits: 570.41
Savings: 0.00
Quote:
Originally Posted by milehighsalute View Post
yeah its usually college ..

and i never met an apache who did danza.......


and if they were in touch with their apache heritage they would not be doing danza

trust me on that.......i KNOW apaches well lol.......they are very proud of what they are and dont seek out danza
sorry for deleting most of your words up there. i din't want to repost again and again.

i know danzantes who are apache. but no they did not seek it out. They were just living here far from home. SOme of them never grew up in their homelands but here in the city. Just like there are apache cholos out here too who don't dance.

they don't go around yelling out there tribal roots though. None of the other non mexica people do until someone asks or for some reason it comes up in conversation. OR in the case of a cholo, they see dancers and share the info with me.

and yes, its because like many chicanos, they are also not in touch with their heritage and people back in their homelands.
koyoteh is offline   Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
Old 10-03-2014, 12:40 AM   #35
Junior Dancer
 
User InfoThanks / Tagging InfoGifts / Achievements / AwardsvBActivity Stats
koyoteh is off the scalekoyoteh is off the scalekoyoteh is off the scalekoyoteh is off the scalekoyoteh is off the scalekoyoteh is off the scalekoyoteh is off the scalekoyoteh is off the scalekoyoteh is off the scalekoyoteh is off the scalekoyoteh is off the scalekoyoteh is off the scalekoyoteh is off the scalekoyoteh is off the scale
Join Date: Sep 2014
Posts: 104
Credits: 570.41
Savings: 0.00
Quote:
Originally Posted by gilisi View Post
Here @koyoteh... this might help you begin to fill the gaping hole in your research.

What is the legal status of American Indian and Alaska Native tribes?
Article 1, Section 8 of the United States Constitution vests Congress, and by extension the Executive and Judicial branches of our government, with the authority to engage in relations with the tribes, thereby firmly placing tribes within the constitutional fabric of our nation. When the governmental authority of tribes was first challenged in the 1830's, U. S. Supreme Court Chief Justice John Marshall articulated the fundamental principle that has guided the evolution of federal Indian law to the present: That tribes possess a nationhood status and retain inherent powers of self-government.

Indian Affairs | FAQs
this doesn't fill any holes in my research as it has nothing to do with what i wrote. but it is interesting and deserves its own thread.
Native History from the annals of Court Records. BOth U.S.A and U.S.M. and lets not forget Canada.
koyoteh is offline   Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
Old 10-03-2014, 12:45 AM   #36
Junior Dancer
 
User InfoThanks / Tagging InfoGifts / Achievements / AwardsvBActivity Stats
koyoteh is off the scalekoyoteh is off the scalekoyoteh is off the scalekoyoteh is off the scalekoyoteh is off the scalekoyoteh is off the scalekoyoteh is off the scalekoyoteh is off the scalekoyoteh is off the scalekoyoteh is off the scalekoyoteh is off the scalekoyoteh is off the scalekoyoteh is off the scalekoyoteh is off the scale
Join Date: Sep 2014
Posts: 104
Credits: 570.41
Savings: 0.00
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe's Dad View Post
I've asked some questions specifically directed at you. I did it at 5:30 his morning. It's now almost 8:00.

The thread is about the 'myth of atzlan and aztec hobbyists'. I'm writing here just in case you haven't seen them

No rhetoric needed. They are straight up question. Maybe you have some good answers. It's all about atzlan, homie.
i looked over and over and havent found any questions from you.

until i see them , i can't answer them.

this thread is about history beginning with what some people call a mythical emigration story.

i wrote in AZTLAN WHAT IS IT thread to talk specifically about that story . Up to you if you want to read it. Its a real story. doesnt mean anyone has to like the story . DOesn't mean people have to or should turn it into dogma. but its a real story. if it washt there would be nothing to write , revere, or complain about.
koyoteh is offline   Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
Old 10-03-2014, 12:47 AM   #37
Pow Wow Committee
 
gilisi's Avatar
 
User InfoThanks / Tagging InfoGifts / Achievements / AwardsvBActivity Stats
gilisi has a reputation beyond reputegilisi has a reputation beyond reputegilisi has a reputation beyond reputegilisi has a reputation beyond repute
gilisi has a reputation beyond reputegilisi has a reputation beyond reputegilisi has a reputation beyond reputegilisi has a reputation beyond reputegilisi has a reputation beyond reputegilisi has a reputation beyond reputegilisi has a reputation beyond reputegilisi has a reputation beyond reputegilisi has a reputation beyond reputegilisi has a reputation beyond reputegilisi has a reputation beyond reputegilisi has a reputation beyond reputegilisi has a reputation beyond reputegilisi has a reputation beyond reputegilisi has a reputation beyond reputegilisi has a reputation beyond reputegilisi has a reputation beyond reputegilisi has a reputation beyond repute
Join Date: Feb 2014
Posts: 2,762
Credits: 51,815.61
Savings: 0.00
Quote:
Originally Posted by koyoteh View Post
i looked over and over and havent found any questions from you.

until i see them , i can't answer them.

this thread is about history beginning with what some people call a mythical emigration story.

i wrote in AZTLAN WHAT IS IT thread to talk specifically about that story . Up to you if you want to read it. Its a real story. doesnt mean anyone has to like the story . DOesn't mean people have to or should turn it into dogma. but its a real story. if it washt there would be nothing to write , revere, or complain about.
Look here genius....

destroying the myth of aztlan and aztec HOBBYISTS
__________________
When you are dead you don't know that you are dead. It is difficult only for the others. It is the same when you are stupid.

"Show me somethin"
gilisi is offline   Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
Old 10-03-2014, 12:55 AM   #38
Junior Dancer
 
User InfoThanks / Tagging InfoGifts / Achievements / AwardsvBActivity Stats
koyoteh is off the scalekoyoteh is off the scalekoyoteh is off the scalekoyoteh is off the scalekoyoteh is off the scalekoyoteh is off the scalekoyoteh is off the scalekoyoteh is off the scalekoyoteh is off the scalekoyoteh is off the scalekoyoteh is off the scalekoyoteh is off the scalekoyoteh is off the scalekoyoteh is off the scale
Join Date: Sep 2014
Posts: 104
Credits: 570.41
Savings: 0.00
are these the questions?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe's Dad View Post
There are 'Tribes' in Mexico???'

How many identified tribes are there in Mexico?


So how tribes from the United States went 'SOUTH'? I don't think everybody went north.
ok i found these questions. Are these what you are talking about me not anxwering?

Yes there are tribes in 'mexico'. but you already knew that.
so sarcasm?
How many identified tribes are there? would have to count. Not gonna do that right now. BUt anyone can do that if they want to. But what does the number of tribes have to do with what i wrote?

how many tribes went south? to tell that i would have to look up all the migration stories. Thats a big undertaking. Might be interesting if someone were willing to take the time to do that. I am sure people have.
But helluva lot of tribes went south. and helluva lot of tribes went north. and back and forth.

the azltan story is an emigration story that talks only about tribes going south. BUT it doesn't talk about the time when these same tribes went north. and then south and back and forth. Thats why its anh emigration story and not an origin story.

but to keep talking in terms of the united state of america and the united states of mexico and other foreign governments doesn't make things easy to explain cause precolumbus did not have thes borders , or govts, or laws.

plus these foreigh govts borders kept changing anyhow.
koyoteh is offline   Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
Old 10-03-2014, 12:57 AM   #39
Dances With Fat Chicks
 
milehighsalute's Avatar
 
User InfoThanks / Tagging InfoGifts / Achievements / AwardsvBActivity Stats
milehighsalute has a reputation beyond repute
milehighsalute has a reputation beyond reputemilehighsalute has a reputation beyond reputemilehighsalute has a reputation beyond reputemilehighsalute has a reputation beyond reputemilehighsalute has a reputation beyond reputemilehighsalute has a reputation beyond reputemilehighsalute has a reputation beyond reputemilehighsalute has a reputation beyond reputemilehighsalute has a reputation beyond reputemilehighsalute has a reputation beyond reputemilehighsalute has a reputation beyond reputemilehighsalute has a reputation beyond reputemilehighsalute has a reputation beyond reputemilehighsalute has a reputation beyond reputemilehighsalute has a reputation beyond reputemilehighsalute has a reputation beyond repute
Join Date: May 2012
Location: DENVER
Posts: 1,036
Credits: 27,237.05
Savings: 0.00
Quote:
Originally Posted by koyoteh View Post
i agree that there are native nazis out there who are pushy.
or act like jehovahs witenesses and get pushy tryingt to recruiot.
I say native nazis because i know about mexica-nazis and yes they love to talk about aztlan. but they don't know what the aztlan story even is about. nor do they know the whole story themselves.

I say native nazis because the mexica nazis are not the only one who behave that way.
i have come acroos so many superinjuns. and native nazis in my time. usually theyse types are youngsters. or are poeople who never really got to know the people they complain about.

we had a time over here in cali whent the lakotas extended a helping hand to help out chicanos get reconnected. This is why a lot of chicanos follow lakota ways and even speak lakota words. The lakotas camer out to help. BUt many also came out to recruit and were real real pushy.

so its not just a mexica problem. but somehow only the mexica get pinpointed.
recruit? please explain??

you cant recruit into a tribe lol.....youre stuck in the tribe you were born into......if you can pick and choose i wanna be a pechanga!!! CHA-:d ollar::dol lar::dolla r:CHING!!!!!
__________________
"I on the trail of a possible good Indian lady and she is reported to like the old way's and she to believes in big family and being at home with kids all the time"... - MOTOOPI aka WOUNDED BEAR
milehighsalute is offline   Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
Old 10-03-2014, 02:59 AM   #40
Pow Wow Committee
 
gilisi's Avatar
 
User InfoThanks / Tagging InfoGifts / Achievements / AwardsvBActivity Stats
gilisi has a reputation beyond reputegilisi has a reputation beyond reputegilisi has a reputation beyond reputegilisi has a reputation beyond repute
gilisi has a reputation beyond reputegilisi has a reputation beyond reputegilisi has a reputation beyond reputegilisi has a reputation beyond reputegilisi has a reputation beyond reputegilisi has a reputation beyond reputegilisi has a reputation beyond reputegilisi has a reputation beyond reputegilisi has a reputation beyond reputegilisi has a reputation beyond reputegilisi has a reputation beyond reputegilisi has a reputation beyond reputegilisi has a reputation beyond reputegilisi has a reputation beyond reputegilisi has a reputation beyond reputegilisi has a reputation beyond reputegilisi has a reputation beyond reputegilisi has a reputation beyond repute
Join Date: Feb 2014
Posts: 2,762
Credits: 51,815.61
Savings: 0.00
Quote:
Originally Posted by koyoteh View Post
this doesn't fill any holes in my research as it has nothing to do with what i wrote. but it is interesting and deserves its own thread.
Native History from the annals of Court Records. BOth U.S.A and U.S.M. and lets not forget Canada.

Doesn't fill any holes in research you HAVEN'T DONE.

Tanto pedo pa cagar aguado
__________________
When you are dead you don't know that you are dead. It is difficult only for the others. It is the same when you are stupid.

"Show me somethin"
gilisi is offline   Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
Sponsored Links
Reply

Bookmarks


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Where Native American History Was Lost And Found tribalwebhost Native Issues 1 04-27-2007 05:45 AM
George Dubya Bush's Resume.... Coyot_In_The_House Chit Chat 21 03-08-2007 12:06 PM
Schools Accused Of Skirting History Blackbear Native Issues 0 11-12-2005 12:26 AM
Bush's Resume traci_m War Discussion 5 11-08-2003 01:36 AM
History of Visors BPlenty Archives 15 09-03-2000 11:41 PM

    

Join the online community forum celebrating Native American Culture, Pow Wows, tribes, music, art, and history.

Join PowWows.com Today!

Your Guide to Native American Pow Wows Since 1996

Register For Free

Enjoy the benefits of being a member of PowWows.com!

Join our Native American online community focused on Pow Wow singing, dancing, crafts, Native American music, Native American videos, and more.

Add your Pow Wow to our Calendar

Share your photos and videos

Play games, enter contests, and much more!






New Threads

Pow Wow Calendar Search

 
Month: Year:

Location:
Facebook Profile Images

Videos

Featured Articles

Dance Styles

Crafts

Gallery