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Old 08-09-2012, 11:33 PM   #1
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Smile Hello All!

I am new to the forums. I am from North Carolina, and I am a boy scout. I have been warned about posting on this website as I understand some natives do not wish to tolerate us. I simply want to learn more about your culture, not to change it. I may ask questions of why someone would do this or that, and you may choose to answer them, or scold me. I honestly want to make relations between boy scouts and native americans better. If I say/do anything that offends anyone let me know. Also I want you to tell me what you think can help relations between us, and tell me what grinds your gears about boy scouts and what we do. I am open to anything whether you want to learn about boy scouts or what we do, or if you just want to give me some advice. It is all appreciated!
Thanks,
Gray (Yes, it is the name I was born with)
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Old 08-10-2012, 12:13 AM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GrayKeith View Post
I am new to the forums. I am from North Carolina, and I am a boy scout. I have been warned about posting on this website as I understand some natives do not wish to tolerate us. I simply want to learn more about your culture, not to change it. I may ask questions of why someone would do this or that, and you may choose to answer them, or scold me. I honestly want to make relations between boy scouts and native americans better. If I say/do anything that offends anyone let me know. Also I want you to tell me what you think can help relations between us, and tell me what grinds your gears about boy scouts and what we do. I am open to anything whether you want to learn about boy scouts or what we do, or if you just want to give me some advice. It is all appreciated!
Thanks,
Gray (Yes, it is the name I was born with)
I counted eleven "I's" which means you are very selfish. It shows that you only want to take. Try again but "keep it real."
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Old 08-10-2012, 03:20 AM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GrayKeith View Post
I am new to the forums. I am from North Carolina, and I am a boy scout. I have been warned about posting on this website as I understand some natives do not wish to tolerate us. I simply want to learn more about your culture, not to change it. I may ask questions of why someone would do this or that, and you may choose to answer them, or scold me. I honestly want to make relations between boy scouts and native americans better. If I say/do anything that offends anyone let me know. Also I want you to tell me what you think can help relations between us, and tell me what grinds your gears about boy scouts and what we do. I am open to anything whether you want to learn about boy scouts or what we do, or if you just want to give me some advice. It is all appreciated!
Thanks,
Gray (Yes, it is the name I was born with)
Greetings, Gray!

May I ask how old you are?

Yours,

Zeke
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Old 08-10-2012, 03:27 AM   #4
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Im 16 and willing to learn zeke.
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Old 08-10-2012, 03:36 AM   #5
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Selflessness is an act taught to us as scouts. We are not here to only take, if information or help can be given we will provide. Being open minded and willing to accept others is something else we have been taught.We would tolerate your lack of toleration, but ask you why you judge so quickly. True boyscouts are understanding and willing. I feel as there is much knowledge flowing through you and the people on this forum. I only wish to learn it and bring it back to my scouts so we can better understand all of you. Like I said before (and should have been more clear about it) I am willing to learn anything you have to offer. The things learned will be brought back to friends and taught to them so that they know the real, or proper way for something to be done.
Thanks,
Gray

Last edited by GrayKeith; 08-10-2012 at 03:37 AM.. Reason: wrong quote
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Old 08-10-2012, 07:24 AM   #6
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...The things learned will be brought back to friends and taught to them so that they know the real, or proper way for something to be done.
From this am I to understand you plan to emulate our cultural activities and material culture?
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Old 08-10-2012, 07:30 AM   #7
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Yes
Thousands and Thousands of posts
Ok just Hundreds
LOL

Here is how it usually goes

Scout: Hey I want to _____....
Ndn: No you cant do that...
Scout Why Not???
Ndn: Because you are not of that Tribe/Society/Culture
Scout: Well I just want to_______...
Ndn: No you cant...
Scout: Well I will anyway....
Ndn: sigh...
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Old 08-10-2012, 10:20 AM   #8
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Originally Posted by Josiah View Post
Yes
Thousands and Thousands of posts
Ok just Hundreds
LOL

Here is how it usually goes

Scout: Hey I want to _____....
Ndn: No you cant do that...
Scout Why Not???
Ndn: Because you are not of that Tribe/Society/Culture
Scout: Well I just want to_______...
Ndn: No you cant...
Scout: Well I will anyway....
Ndn: sigh...
And it's always the same ! sigh....
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Old 08-10-2012, 11:51 AM   #9
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Hello and welcome to the forums @GrayKeith !

My best suggestion for you would to be to use the search function of the site to see if others have asked similar questions to what you may have and see what answers they received. You will notice that when a question about a particular ceremony, of any tribe, have been asked they are usually met with opposition and often brute responses. Questions of standard customs such as food, lifestyles and powwow related topics are usually answered kindly and sometimes spark a good discussion, sometimes not. Just keep in mind that the questions you may have exist in a broad gray area and nothing is black and white. That is to say just be careful with your wording and what you ask and more importantly how you respond.

Another tip is to not do what @Josiah stated. When your scout leaders and fellow scouts have told you about asking questions on this site and the types of responses given, they are referring to this exact situation. What they didn't tell you is the reason they received such negative feedback is because when told that they were not allowed to know or that they can't do something they always fired back with "why not" or "but all I wanted was xyz" etc... They refuse to tell you that it was their fault for continuing it. If and when someone objects to a question you ask the best response will be "Thank you" and leave it at that.


Also watch out for the class clowns too, they know who they are.

I hope you enjoy the site and feel free to browse our extensive collection of articles, threads, photos, video, and knowledge base. We just launched a new version of PowwowsTV.
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Old 08-10-2012, 12:18 PM   #10
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Im 16 and willing to learn zeke.
I sensed youth and am fine with that. We were all young once and your attitude is admirable as I have not always possessed such an open mind.

Toolbox has written a great synopsis of how I feel, as well.

1. I sense good intentions on your part.
2. Take a look around the site and ask some questions.

Here's the thing to understand though, okay? There are hundreds of different tribes so there are hundreds of different things accepted as "right." Second, many of those tribes have internal preferences to keep their stuff private so answers may not come.

Cool?
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Old 08-10-2012, 02:06 PM   #11
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I realize that there are some scouts out there who just ask a question and just do what they want to do regardless if they have been told they can't. I want to learn what can be used by a normal person. Or scout. I know that some societies exist, and they have certain items or pieces of gear that I cannot use, such as a the dog soldier headress. I have taken a few classes taught by knowledgible people. I still feel that there is much to learn from you all. You all will be much more knowing than I am or will ever be. I just wish for you all to accept me. Respect is not given but earned and I realize such. Our sight on native americans should just be a sight, we shouldnt try to change anything. As for emulating your cultures, I want to be proper yes but I do not expect my wear to be as good as yours. I want my things to look good yes, but I do not wish to beat any of you in any competition. I want to beat fellow scouts and maybe dance with some of you in the future, but in no way shape or form do I want to be better than you.
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Old 08-10-2012, 02:19 PM   #12
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Thank you Toolbox and Zeke. I appreciate your acceptance and willingness to help.
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Old 08-10-2012, 02:19 PM   #13
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So you want to learn how to dance a particular style or learn how to make certain pieces for whatever dance style you choose? If any of those are true you may want to create threads in the appropriate sub-forums. For instance if your questions are geared towards, for example, grass dancing, including questions regarding your outfit we invite you to start a new thread in there. If you have just general questions about for instance beading then open up a question in that sub-forum. Doing so will give you more direct attention to those who regularly visit those forums or those knowledgeable in that particular subject.
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Old 08-10-2012, 02:36 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GrayKeith View Post
I have been warned about posting on this website as I understand some natives do not wish to tolerate us.
Thanks,
Gray (Yes, it is the name I was born with)
I would like to address this particular aspect. Many BSA leaders and former scouts have taking things way to far. Some have taking a little knowledge and then tell everyone that they know everything. Your leaders and dancers have met one or two "real Indian" and then think they are God's gift to the powwow world. Other have never been to a real Native Community but claim they have read this or that or talk to him/her and are now experts. They refuse(just like the folks that ask questions on this site) to be respectful and start pretending to know stuff or make it up. Then they pass it on to the youth as knowledge.
It has become a self-feeding hypocrisy.
Have you ever wondered why your leaders haven't/don't interact with the tribes in your area?
You have people in your own state that have done much to effect the negative viewpoint that the Native community has of BSA/OA.
They may go to Oklahoma once or twice and then claim greatness. They go back to NC and stroke each other on how much NDN stuff they know.
Everyone wants to be the expert, but no one wants to humble themselves and learn.
Josiah stated it very well, Most of the time BSA folks will ignore the answers given and do what they want anyway.
Your current "Crew" of Leaders in the NC OA have a lot to be ashamed of. It has become a "mocking" of NDN culture instead of honoring them. The NOAC that just occurred is a prime example of what I'm talking about.
My advise to you is....
Go to the local powwows in you area(without dancing first), make friends. Inquire respectfully with the people there.
If you have the right intent, and do it respectfully, They will show you the way.
They certainly did for me.
P.S. Not all Scouters are like I described above. But they keep a low profile because they have been "black-balled" by the power hungry groups I've spoken about. The good one have connections and friends/family in the Native communities. .
You have to remember this is a Living and Breathing Culture. You are a guest in it. If invited, treat it with the respect it deserves.
LS
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Last edited by lostsalt; 08-10-2012 at 02:39 PM.. Reason: mispelling
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Old 08-10-2012, 03:25 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by lostsalt View Post
I would like to address this particular aspect. Many BSA leaders and former scouts have taking things way to far. Some have taking a little knowledge and then tell everyone that they know everything. Your leaders and dancers have met one or two "real Indian" and then think they are God's gift to the powwow world. Other have never been to a real Native Community but claim they have read this or that or talk to him/her and are now experts. They refuse(just like the folks that ask questions on this site) to be respectful and start pretending to know stuff or make it up. Then they pass it on to the youth as knowledge.
It has become a self-feeding hypocrisy.
Have you ever wondered why your leaders haven't/don't interact with the tribes in your area?
You have people in your own state that have done much to effect the negative viewpoint that the Native community has of BSA/OA.
They may go to Oklahoma once or twice and then claim greatness. They go back to NC and stroke each other on how much NDN stuff they know.
Everyone wants to be the expert, but no one wants to humble themselves and learn.
Josiah stated it very well, Most of the time BSA folks will ignore the answers given and do what they want anyway.
Your current "Crew" of Leaders in the NC OA have a lot to be ashamed of. It has become a "mocking" of NDN culture instead of honoring them. The NOAC that just occurred is a prime example of what I'm talking about.
My advise to you is....
Go to the local powwows in you area(without dancing first), make friends. Inquire respectfully with the people there.
If you have the right intent, and do it respectfully, They will show you the way.
They certainly did for me.
P.S. Not all Scouters are like I described above. But they keep a low profile because they have been "black-balled" by the power hungry groups I've spoken about. The good one have connections and friends/family in the Native communities. .
You have to remember this is a Living and Breathing Culture. You are a guest in it. If invited, treat it with the respect it deserves.
LS
I find your statements to be unfortunatley true. I am from raleigh and tge closest pow wow (that I know of right now) is the NCSU powwow. Do you think that would be a good place to start? Also the OA lodge located nesr the cherokee people is called Tsali lodge, and they are very much in tuned and communicate with the natives very well (is what I have heard). I appreciate your advice and I will take it cheerfully.
Thanks,
Gray
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Old 08-12-2012, 01:04 PM   #16
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We would tolerate your lack of toleration, but ask you why you judge so quickly.
As quick as the Long Knives killed our people, we should be given every right to quickly judge their offspring.
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Old 08-13-2012, 02:43 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wanjica_the_one View Post
As quick as the Long Knives killed our people, we should be given every right to quickly judge their offspring.
Wanjica, get a mirror. At this point, we are the problem and you are an embarrassment. You can't grow so long as you blame another for your fate. Bugger off.

GrayKeith, there is a lot of ignorance, fear and hate in the world. THAT, is why people judge quickly. And to judge someone your age who seeks information in order to, eventually, become a well rounded adult is closed, "rez," and small. We are supposed to seek information.

I know next to nothing about scouting. I know even less about Order of the Arrow. I have never been to North Carolina. I am at least a decade removed from the powwow world which is pan Indian fiction, anyway. But I now a LOT about thinking, asking questions and wanting answers: even when we don't understand them. I am, as we all should be, great with adolescents asking questions.

But here's the thing. What you would like to know may not be available where you are and, certainly, is unlikely to be found on this -- or any other -- web page. In fact, answers often lead to having more questions as your knowledge base grows. That's just the hazard of being a lifelong learner. The alternative as an American Indian, however, is to maintain an irrational fear or blame for people and things that occurred years (many!) before any of us were born.

So:

1. Read some of the specific dance forums.
2. Attend the powwow you mentioned.
3. Don't allow other's ignorance to impede your quest for knowledge.

You may never get it, but it's the journey that counts.
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Old 08-13-2012, 03:31 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zeke View Post
Wanjica, get a mirror. At this point, we are the problem and you are an embarrassment. You can't grow so long as you blame another for your fate. Bugger off.

GrayKeith, there is a lot of ignorance, fear and hate in the world. THAT, is why people judge quickly. And to judge someone your age who seeks information in order to, eventually, become a well rounded adult is closed, "rez," and small. We are supposed to seek information.

I know next to nothing about scouting. I know even less about Order of the Arrow. I have never been to North Carolina. I am at least a decade removed from the powwow world which is pan Indian fiction, anyway. But I now a LOT about thinking, asking questions and wanting answers: even when we don't understand them. I am, as we all should be, great with adolescents asking questions.

But here's the thing. What you would like to know may not be available where you are and, certainly, is unlikely to be found on this -- or any other -- web page. In fact, answers often lead to having more questions as your knowledge base grows. That's just the hazard of being a lifelong learner. The alternative as an American Indian, however, is to maintain an irrational fear or blame for people and things that occurred years (many!) before any of us were born.

So:

1. Read some of the specific dance forums.
2. Attend the powwow you mentioned.
3. Don't allow other's ignorance to impede your quest for knowledge.

You may never get it, but it's the journey that counts.
ha ha, bite this and bugger off!!
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Last edited by yaahl; 08-13-2012 at 03:37 PM.. Reason: Ok you two, settle down and behave. Don't make me get the whoopazz can out...
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Old 08-13-2012, 06:08 PM   #19
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Hi Gray and welcome to the forum :)
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Make sure to post on the books thread http://www.powwows.com/gathering/showthread.php?t=62514

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Old 10-22-2012, 12:31 PM   #20
Self-Righteous Injun
 
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For the record, this is why folks find it difficult to respond to threads like this: a two week flurry of activity and the original -- likely good intentioned -- starter hasn't been on the site in two months.

What's the point if folks are hobbyists or just passing through?

I'm not a powwow guy nor does Native stuff define me but it, and personal lifelong questions attached to it, are part of my life and have lead to long-term involvement here. (I just posted something borderline rhetorical about the death of Russell Means, for example.)

I'm not picking on this well-intentioned kid but folks float through looking for something and, when they don't find it, they look elsewhere.

They should have looked inward to begin with.
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