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Old 10-23-2008, 06:15 PM   #81
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Originally Posted by soopashinaab View Post
I like tellin stories... maybe I'm the Ojibwe storyteller!
ooh, maybe, & if you start saying it enough times maybe it will come true!
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Old 10-23-2008, 11:43 PM   #82
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Originally Posted by timmy tiger View Post
They've listed the states as clans and not mentioned any clan names that I've noticed or recognize.LOL

Here we go again.

Can we please stop the madness!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!
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Old 10-23-2008, 11:50 PM   #83
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Top Secret!

This is top secret so only share with your favorite wannabes...

If you click your heels 3 times & say "My great Grandmother was a Cherokee princess" ...It will come true!!...but you must wear fully beaded ruby moccasins while doing this, or it won't work
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Old 10-24-2008, 08:36 AM   #84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Painted Sky View Post
You can check our web site at
The United Cherokee Indian Nation (UCIN)
If you click on the Tribal leaders you will see my picture.
Also, click on the powwow link and see what lasts year's was like.
It is going to be so much bigger and there is also close by
lodging if needed.
Painted Sky,
Child, someone has fed you a line. This is just another one of those groups of people that decided to make themselves a tribe and charge you money to do so.
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Old 10-24-2008, 09:07 AM   #85
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ok i see finnly what yall are saying about ppl doing things wrong and looke funny but what would you have the ppl do that are not climed by the ppl but have blood from gramd ma or grand dad or dad or mom, anyway there does need to be a way for ppl to express there honnering in a good way with out staying lost or outcasted from the very ppl blood thay carry,nancy when you called the woman child your are right ,she is the child that come from a person who also carried the blood if what she says is true . i dont think its good to try to be as a recongiezed tribe becouse well its not the same as the ppl who made it through but everone knows what happend to the ppl and many did thier best to live.as many not not live but died whole ppls ,so if one comes in a good why and is not climed yet for there ansisers why not give a little respcit and just allow a little time to begen to understand how to grow right.

just my thoughts
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Old 10-24-2008, 09:18 AM   #86
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SuzzeQ4 View Post
ooh, maybe, & if you start saying it enough times maybe it will come true!
Like how I keep tellin my wife I wasn't staring at that pretty girl at the pow wow... is that what you mean???
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Old 10-24-2008, 09:23 AM   #87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2lineCarrandMorgan View Post
ok i see finnly what yall are saying about ppl doing things wrong and looke funny but what would you have the ppl do that are not climed by the ppl but have blood from gramd ma or grand dad or dad or mom, anyway there does need to be a way for ppl to express there honnering in a good way with out staying lost or outcasted from the very ppl blood thay carry,nancy when you called the woman child your are right ,she is the child that come from a person who also carried the blood if what she says is true . i dont think its good to try to be as a recongiezed tribe becouse well its not the same as the ppl who made it through but everone knows what happend to the ppl and many did thier best to live.as many not not live but died whole ppls ,so if one comes in a good why and is not climed yet for there ansisers why not give a little respcit and just allow a little time to begen to understand how to grow right.

just my thoughts
Just my thoughts here
I have met in my life many many peoples that come from all backgrounds

Some that have good intentions
But these people that dont have a way to get with there Nativeness gravitate to these groups that prey on people and tell them excatly what they want to hear

When the chain is broken it cant be fixed unfornately and that is a sad thing
But for what ever reason the anscestor decided to turn there back on there blood and the chain broke

For a person 2 or 3 generations later to try to repair it
Well its the same as people trying to go back to Africa and see there roots
They are no longer of those tribes
They visit and take pictures but they are so far removed from that life they can never go back
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Old 10-24-2008, 09:37 AM   #88
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Josiah View Post
Just my thoughts here
I have met in my life many many peoples that come from all backgrounds

Some that have good intentions
But these people that dont have a way to get with there Nativeness gravitate to these groups that prey on people and tell them excatly what they want to hear

When the chain is broken it cant be fixed unfornately and that is a sad thing
But for what ever reason the anscestor decided to turn there back on there blood and the chain broke

For a person 2 or 3 generations later to try to repair it
Well its the same as people trying to go back to Africa and see there roots
They are no longer of those tribes
They visit and take pictures but they are so far removed from that life they can never go back
Very nicely put!!
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Old 10-24-2008, 10:06 AM   #89
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Josiah View Post

But for what ever reason the anscestor decided to turn there back on there blood and the chain broke

Josiah, may I respectfully add my two cents?

I believe that very few Native ancestors willingly "turned their backs on their blood and the chain broke."

I have two full-blood ndn grandparents who were orphaned when they were babies. They were raised by white people in a white world. They had no choice about it, and when they became adults, as you say, it was impossible to rejoin their people.

Another of my Native ancestors survived after her entire people were exterminated by whites. She could have just given up and died, but I am glad she didn't.

Wannabes make it difficult for real mixed-blood people. I don't join phoney tribes and buy fake cards. But i also don't blame my ancestors for the circumstances of their lives.

Thanks for listening.
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Old 10-24-2008, 10:30 AM   #90
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Quote:
Originally Posted by storyteller View Post
Josiah, may I respectfully add my two cents?

I believe that very few Native ancestors willingly "turned their backs on their blood and the chain broke."

I have two full-blood ndn grandparents who were orphaned when they were babies. They were raised by white people in a white world. They had no choice about it, and when they became adults, as you say, it was impossible to rejoin their people.
I was adopted & raised by whites, I know alot of NDN's who were. Is it easy to get back what was stolen? No, BUT it is possible. It's a choice, I chose to make sure that my blood & traditions were not lost to future generations despite being adopted out. I went to my community, learned (starting from the bottom as a child would, because that's where my cultural knowledge was), respected the teachings I was learning, married NDN (to keep the blood strong) and raised my children with everything I didn't have.
that was a choice, not the easiest choice but I did it, as do many others. Likewise many don't; many chose the route of accepting their assimilation & raising their children likewise. Your family made a choice.
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Old 10-24-2008, 10:37 AM   #91
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Quote:
Originally Posted by soopashinaab View Post
Like how I keep tellin my wife I wasn't staring at that pretty girl at the pow wow... is that what you mean???
No cause the wife is never wrong!

Buy darker shades so she can't see who your starring at, then you can say you was starring at her, Now say that over & over & hopefully it will come true!
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Old 10-24-2008, 10:58 AM   #92
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2Line, in my experience these people are too often not interested in real Native identity and experience. They are instead in search of something to make them feel special and different from everyone else. They are in love with the Hollyweird hippie-dippy vision of the noble savage in buckskin and braids.

When exposed to day to day Native reality, they find themselves much less enamored with real Indian people who live modern lives and guard their ways jealously from exploitation. Most run off to fantasy land. They get mixed up some fake Indian guru who sells them -- literally -- a bill of goods. Rather than learning to live with the mixed-blessing of being an Indian descendant, these people end up with false histories, made-up ceremonies, and phony tribes. Many times good people get caught up in a web of lies that has them committing sacrilege in the name of identity and posing a real threat to the sovereignty of legitimate nations.

I neither offer respect nor show disrespect to these people. Instead, I pity them.

Last edited by OLChemist; 10-24-2008 at 11:00 AM.. Reason: fell is not equal to feel. If I only had a brain...
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Old 10-24-2008, 11:03 AM   #93
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SuzzeQ4 View Post
No cause the wife is never wrong!

Buy darker shades so she can't see who your starring at, then you can say you was starring at her, Now say that over & over & hopefully it will come true!
Honest honey!!! I wasn't looking...
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Old 10-24-2008, 11:13 AM   #94
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Quote:
Originally Posted by soopashinaab View Post
Honest honey!!! I wasn't looking...
Yah rite you tha Soopstah not look at a pretty lady??? Not possible lol.
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Old 10-24-2008, 11:35 AM   #95
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This isn't the obvious lie thread???
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Old 10-24-2008, 03:33 PM   #96
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Quote:
Originally Posted by storyteller View Post
Josiah, may I respectfully add my two cents?

I believe that very few Native ancestors willingly "turned their backs on their blood and the chain broke."

I have two full-blood ndn grandparents who were orphaned when they were babies. They were raised by white people in a white world. They had no choice about it, and when they became adults, as you say, it was impossible to rejoin their people.

Another of my Native ancestors survived after her entire people were exterminated by whites. She could have just given up and died, but I am glad she didn't.

Wannabes make it difficult for real mixed-blood people. I don't join phoney tribes and buy fake cards. But i also don't blame my ancestors for the circumstances of their lives.

Thanks for listening.
For example:

My Father is Fullblood
He went to boarding school from age 5 till 17 1/2 when he went into the Marine Corp
He speaks the language of his parents who are Full bloods
BUT
His vocabulary is of a 5 year old
Because boarding school did not allow speaking native Languages
Because he attended boarding school in his youth he was not taught any kind of traditional skills,values any of those things that would make him a member of a Tribe
And yet he is Fullblood
Later in life he moved back to where our ancestors lived and he reattached to that cultural group that we call a tribe
He was lucky in the fact that he could reattach with his kinfolk
But it was by choice
His cousin who also went to boarding school and the marine corp never went back and as far as he is concerned he is ok with it

They both made a choice

Now lets talk about the cousin
He is a fullblood he married a Caucasian
His oldest child is a Halfbreed
who now has a child which is a 1/4
This Child is 3/4 Caucasian and 1/4 Ndn
This child knows nothing of his Ndn side and is perfectly happy with that fact
He plays football and hopes to go to OU when he graduates
Nothing wrong with any of this


I have been doing alot of research lately on ancestry
Not for enrollment for we have been enrolled since birth
But I wanted to go farther back then the Dawes rolls and even farther back
In my research I have read alot of documents from the 1800's
Lets start with the Cherokees which that is what we are talking about here

Myth #1
Popular belief was that the whole Cherokee Nation were rounded up enmasse in 1839 and force marched enmasse from North Carolina to Indian Territory by large number of troops

Myth #2
Some numbers of renegade Cherokees in stealth and guile "escaped" from the "trail where they cried" and hid out in
Missouri, Arkansas, Texas, Kentucky, Virginia and even Mexico

Myth #3
Anybody that lived in Missouri or Arkansas between 1839 to present were not allowed to claim Indian Blood


Facts:
Cherokee Nation started migrating as early as 1799 to the west and there is evidence that about 2000 Cherokees migrated as early as 1720 to an area near the Rocky Mountains. The final group of some 4400 Cherokees in 1839 were mainly mixed breeds that had finally exhausted all legal means to fight the relocation which had been successfully fought and won in the supreme court in 1832!!!
However the US had a standing army of only 7000 troops in the 1830's and did not want to fight a war with the Southern States
Georgia militia actively harassed and burned out any remaining Cherokees in the 1820's and 1830's despite Federal Protection from this harassment
South Carolina and Tennessee next followed suit with North Carolina getting on the band wagon soon enough

The majority of the Cherokee nation lived in Indian Territory long before the Trail of Tears

What troops that moved the remaining Cherokees were small squads of troops

A very large number of Cherokees went to the Boundary in North Carolina were they stayed until Counted in the 1851 and 1852 Rolls
The Chapman Rolls also counted EASTERN CHEROKEE
hmmm dont sound like they were doing much hiding

As a matter of Fact in the 1880's the US Gov allocated funds for any Eastern Cherokees to relocated to Indian Territory if they wished some did some didn't

The Dawes Rolls was to allocate Land in the Indian Territory Period!
In the 1880's it was realized that the Tribal Customs were too strong and it would take too long to wait until the "Indian Problem" would go away. So it was proposed to try an experiment and "break up" the Tribal governments of the 5 civilized tribes and this was done by Allocating Land to the Individual for the first time
So a Roll was commissioned and put into effect.
They used certain criteria to ensure that a Land Run was not Started
A person has to have been on a previous Roll or Census such as 1890 1880 or Old Settlers Rolls of 1851.
The idea was that anyone that had lived for the last 20 years or so in Indian Territory and had been on previous rolls deserved property
People Showed up as far away as England for Land!!! They were turned away, They came out of the woodwork for free land that they felt they could turn around and sell for a quick buck and go back to where they came from.


It was not until Land was Given away that any of these people decided to line up with there hand out looking for there cut

So from 1840 to 1896 any Cherokee could come to Cherokee Nation in Indian Territory or the Qualla Boundary and Live under the Cherokee Nation Flag and be a citizen of the tribe voluntarily
So the very thought that there are large groups of hiding Cherokees for the last 170 years in fear of there lives is LUDICROUS

We all make choices.
They made a choice long ago and in their day it was a good choice they lived their lives and had their kids. You cant go back generations later when there has not been a connection in generations and reconnect without moving WHERE the MAJORITY of the TRIBE lives and Immersing yourself in that Culture. It is hard enough to do when it was only one generation removed, To do so when it was 4 or 5 generations removed is next to impossible.

You can't start your own group and call it Cherokee because it is not. It does not have the history, Culture, or Language that would make it a Tribe.
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Old 10-24-2008, 06:16 PM   #97
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Thank you Josiah for your thoughtful reply. I understand and agree with you completely.

Sadly, some people did not know the state they were adopted from, let alone which tribe to "choose" to reconnect with. As you said, once the chain is broken . . .
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Old 10-24-2008, 09:11 PM   #98
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thank you all for your thoughts on this and all is good to read ,but the essence of who we each are does not change based on another opinion ,it has take me time to come to the understanding that i have now, it has taken me time to understand the words spoken to me about some of the verious erros i was making. alto im still the being i was created to be.
the chain from who i come from is not broken but alive and moving with in me,i can only feel for the others that carry the fire of life with in thier being too .


its the wonder to me anyways and the gift is here sooooo

can some of you not throw out the baby with the bath water.if you do see one making there way back .
even tho you think or know in your own heart the trip back is just about as impossable as the trip away from ones own heart.
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Old 10-25-2008, 01:53 PM   #99
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These "hippy dippy" Indian tribes are popping up all over the place.............all their good for is sucking money out of folks and giving them false hope.

I say avoid them at all costs...........paying someone $35 for a picture ID that claims your Indian doesn't make you Indian. That's what this group in Florida is doing.
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Old 10-25-2008, 02:04 PM   #100
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NancyJo View Post
These "hippy dippy" Indian tribes are popping up all over the place.............all their good for is sucking money out of folks and giving them false hope.

I say avoid them at all costs...........paying someone $35 for a picture ID that claims your Indian doesn't make you Indian. That's what this group in Florida is doing.
That's what they all do and they hurt innocent people who might actually have a chance to find something until they get twisted and detroyed by these groups. I've met several member's of these groups who were so nice and I was so willing to help them out, but the got involved with these groups and then it was all their way, nothing real at all and it's a shame to see that happen with people who really are just looking.

They get twisted by false facts and a false history and then when they see or find the real thing, they mock it and make fun of and totally push it away. So to stop these groups might actually give a true innocent person a real chance to find something for themselves.

Just my opinion here based on what I have actually seen and heard from people.
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