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Old 10-25-2008, 10:28 PM   #101
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These groups prey on folks that might not of been able to prove their heritage or feel the need for some kind of recognition (even if its false).
I say it's better to say you're a descendant of an Indian family member and let it go at that.

Save your $35 for something worth while.

Like beads!!!!! or dinner out with your family!!

I understand the Cherokee Nation has a taskforce now that is investigating these so called Cherokee Tribes. Maybe they will be able to debunk and break up some of these groups.
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Old 10-25-2008, 11:11 PM   #102
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NancyJo View Post
These groups prey on folks that might not of been able to prove their heritage or feel the need for some kind of recognition (even if its false).
I say it's better to say you're a descendant of an Indian family member and let it go at that.

Save your $35 for something worth while.

Like beads!!!!! or dinner out with your family!!e

I understand the Cherokee Nation has a task force now that is investigating these so called Cherokee Tribes. Maybe they will be able to debunk and break up some of these groups.
I posted a thread a few months ago that all three Cherokee Tribes are actively pursing various avenues against groups,individuals that are exploiting the Cherokee Name...
They are also considering for the first time Trademarking the name Cherokee
That would stop alot of these groups that is for sure!
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Old 10-26-2008, 11:14 AM   #103
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That's good.

I hope people will open their eyes and realize they are being scammed by these false groups...........and if these groups are taking money falsely from funds designated for "legit" tribes that they may be in for some legal problems from these Cherokee task forces.
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Old 10-26-2008, 11:57 AM   #104
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that would be a step forword in cleaning up the mess .i dont like it either but really most ppl dont have a way to connect or the humbleness to go through a good cleansing,

in austin we are blessed with a strong powwow that has goot ppl running it and still we have ppl that are cutting the eage off with ppl miss understanding of the ppls.


we dont seem to have a large number of ppl that are in austin that are trying to be anthing else than who thay are.

we will see a few ppl at powwow that want to do things in thier own way with out much understanding of thier own idias,

still its a grate powwow

tim tall horse will mc and take a horse will be the arena dircter both men are strong and able to lead a great number of ppl

one thing thay usted to do was have a white mans dance ,
the mc would say who wanted to try and dance ,and some would come out to the floor and the mc would start diceibing who thay look like to him after a few time around he would tell the ppl [who were in the true dance] to choose from the group of dancers to pick one to to sponcer for the dance, where only the white of other color danced, after about 5 or 6 ppl had a sponcer thay would have a dance off and the person who got the grates volume of claps would place frist,and so on, thay got food vochers to dinner and money to frist place

well i rember a few who dance year after year in that farce, silly as it is, it gets a great point across white ppl cant dance lol

mr rogers danced a few years in a roll
then a girl in cow boy boots,and once a woman was doing somthing with her arms and hips lol any way i dont think thay do the white mans dance anymore at least not last year
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Old 10-27-2008, 04:11 PM   #105
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You honestly live in a land of make believe don't you. First off, you don't find indian people refering to themselves as individuals or as a group in the manner you do in your post despite your horrendous grammar. You insist on saddling native peoples with some stereotypical behavior. You say you have many people there "doing things" in their own way w/o much understanding of their own ideas? I take you are one of them then.
Ansd as the atypical wannbe thought process goes you only make your point from the 'Powwow Prespective" . What? you think think they don't have a culture outside a dance arena or something. Indians can't be indians unless they are in beads and buckskin and dance bells.

Your ideas and the way you put them smacks of
Wannabe 101 or "Injuns for Dummies"
Get real
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Old 10-27-2008, 04:23 PM   #106
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Josiah View Post
I posted a thread a few months ago that all three Cherokee Tribes are actively pursing various avenues against groups,individuals that are exploiting the Cherokee Name...
They are also considering for the first time Trademarking the name Cherokee
That would stop alot of these groups that is for sure!
This is a kick as$ idea
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Old 10-27-2008, 07:54 PM   #107
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PappyRoach View Post
You honestly live in a land of make believe don't you. First off, you don't find indian people refering to themselves as individuals or as a group in the manner you do in your post despite your horrendous grammar. You insist on saddling native peoples with some stereotypical behavior. You say you have many people there "doing things" in their own way w/o much understanding of their own ideas? I take you are one of them then.
Ansd as the atypical wannbe thought process goes you only make your point from the 'Powwow Prespective" . What? you think think they don't have a culture outside a dance arena or something. Indians can't be indians unless they are in beads and buckskin and dance bells.

Your ideas and the way you put them smacks of
Wannabe 101 or "Injuns for Dummies"
Get real
hello Pappy Roach, i dont know you very well but i hope well for you,your intitled to your opion of my post but you took your shot and i hope your happy with it,lol i dont really know what pushed your button but you got your own idias about what you thought you read.

dang mister take a pill or somthing maybe go out side take a few deep breath, then try again .
lol really relax
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Old 10-27-2008, 11:24 PM   #108
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2lineCarrandMorgan View Post
hello Pappy Roach, i dont know you very well but i hope well for you,your intitled to your opion of my post but you took your shot and i hope your happy with it,lol i dont really know what pushed your button but you got your own idias about what you thought you read.

dang mister take a pill or somthing maybe go out side take a few deep breath, then try again .
lol really relax
Its surprising how clear your grammar became all of a sudden. I mean to read your other posts one would believe you had a weak grasp of the english language .Now you are writing with much more clarity...
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Old 10-28-2008, 08:03 PM   #109
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PappyRoach View Post
Its surprising how clear your grammar became all of a sudden. I mean to read your other posts one would believe you had a weak grasp of the english language .Now you are writing with much more clarity...

lo well you took a turn for the better too lol glad to see it lol
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Old 10-29-2008, 09:18 AM   #110
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NancyJo View Post
That's good.

I hope people will open their eyes and realize they are being scammed by these false groups...........and if these groups are taking money falsely from funds designated for "legit" tribes that they may be in for some legal problems from these Cherokee task forces.
Hey Nancy Joe,
How are yu? Everything is well with my father and me. It's a little chilly down here. How's Texas? I have IM thru Yahoo, maybe we can start chatting. I would like to have yu as a friend. Hummingbird!
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Old 10-29-2008, 09:46 AM   #111
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Ummmm.........it's NancyJo.......not Joe.
Nope.......don't have Yahoo IM.
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Old 11-02-2008, 11:13 PM   #112
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Quote:
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lo well you took a turn for the better too lol glad to see it lol
Sheeeesh !
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Old 11-03-2008, 10:05 PM   #113
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enjoy your self
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Old 01-21-2009, 06:45 AM   #114
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Question Clans?

I checked out the website. State Clans? Hmmm.
And.... your father's name is Chief GrayEagle.
That's what his birth certificate says?
Hmmm
What a name to give a baby!
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Old 01-21-2009, 12:54 PM   #115
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This has been very interesting discussion about Clans of the old Cherokee Nations (all 3)

They have taken some kernel of truth and turned it into a fabrication of imagination creating a mythical world.
Sort of like the knights of old sitting around the round table!
But the best part they have modernized it by charging a fee to be included into this exclusive club...

But when fabrications of imaginations are exposed to the harsh reality of truth and history they disappear in a puff of smoke.
Then a terrible realization creeps in, that a huge Flimflam has been perpetuated upon them and money has been lost.
This same realization has visited previous victims of other great Swindles such as the purchase of the Brooklyn Bridge to tourists or the buying of Swampland to speculators.

They have much in common with these same folks the same indignation, the realization that they have been fleeced and made to look like fools.

And yet despite all the evidence in front of them of the chicanery that has been pulled on them they try desperately to hold onto the deception that perhaps We are wrong!!! That there was a small secret group that sneaks away from the body of the tribe and in complete and utter seclusion hidden from all prying eyes held onto what was lost from the rest.

The only problem with this theory is the very fact this is exactly how you design a deception!
An idea of belonging to a small exclusive enclave of like minded peoples is highly desirable. A story of intrigue and adventure is told and then it is revealed that for a very small fee a mere pittance of insignificance is required to enter into this exclusive world.
A world that was closed to them by Legitimate Nations, that turned them away when they could not produce the evidence that was need of them other than the vague stories of an ggg grandmother princess in there past.
But with these people the mere wisp of evidence is the golden key that unlocks the World to legitimacy, the very vindication that they have sought for so long.

Sad indeed.

The Harsh Reality of the World is you can't pick your Ancestry!
Nor can it be made up despite all the money that can be poured in.

But hey what do we know?

Know this: The Three Legitimate Tribes of the Cherokee Nation NEVER CHARGE A FEE.
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Old 01-25-2009, 02:22 AM   #116
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It is very interesting on what you are thinking about Cherokee Tribe or if there is ever one in Kentucky. My father was born in Kentucky and his grandmother (my great grandmother) was a full blood Cherokee. She was the one to excaped from the trails of tears and went into hiding in the mountains. My grandmother was ashame of her heritage and hide from white people that she is half native. We will never go back the way we had been with our ancestors for thousand of years. Things change a lot and sadly I don't feel like looking for any rolls to find my bloodline. To me I am part Cree and part Cherokee, so that is good enough for me without going through the hassle.
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Old 01-25-2009, 02:51 AM   #117
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It is very interesting on what you are thinking about Cherokee Tribe or if there is ever one in Kentucky. My father was born in Kentucky and his grandmother (my great grandmother) was a full blood Cherokee. She was the one to excaped from the trails of tears and went into hiding in the mountains. My grandmother was ashame of her heritage and hide from white people that she is half native. We will never go back the way we had been with our ancestors for thousand of years. Things change a lot and sadly I don't feel like looking for any rolls to find my bloodline. To me I am part Cree and part Cherokee, so that is good enough for me without going through the hassle.
Which part?
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Old 01-25-2009, 03:08 AM   #118
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My grandmother never mentioned to us about herself and her family and does not want to talk about it not even to her own son (my Dad) which part where we came from. Last time I heard from my Dad was that my grandmother and her son was living in Calhoun County and they do not live on the reservation at all. It is like taboo and never talk about our Cherokee heritage. I was really confused about all this secret thing which I don't understand why.
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Old 01-25-2009, 09:31 AM   #119
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My grandmother never mentioned to us about herself and her family and does not want to talk about it not even to her own son (my Dad) which part where we came from. Last time I heard from my Dad was that my grandmother and her son was living in Calhoun County and they do not live on the reservation at all. It is like taboo and never talk about our Cherokee heritage. I was really confused about all this secret thing which I don't understand why.
History of the Cherokee 1763 to 1846:

The Keetoowah (Western Cherokee or Old Settlers) had their origin with a small group of pro-French Cherokee which relocated to northern Arkansas and southeastern Missouri after the French defeat by the British in 1763. The Spanish welcomed them and granted land. Towards the end of the American Revolution in 1782, they were joined a group of pro-British Cherokee. With the migration of the Chickamauga (1794-99), the Keetoowah became formidable and a threat to the Osage who originally claimed the territory. Cherokee and Osage warfare was fairly common in 1803 when the United States gained control of the area through the Louisiana Purchase. With continued migration, the Western Cherokee steadily gained at the expense of the Osage, and by 1808 over 2,000 Cherokee were established in northern Arkansas.

The Turkey Town treaty (1817) was the first formal recognition of the Western Cherokee by the United States. Under its terms, 4,000 Cherokee ceded their lands in Tennessee in exchange for a reservation with the Western Cherokee in northwest Arkansas. With this new immigration during 1818-19, the number of Western Cherokee swelled to over 6,000. However, the Osage continued to object to the Cherokee presence, and the Americans were forced to build Fort Smith (1817) and Fort Gibson (1824) to maintain peace. White settlers of the Arkansas territory were soon demanding the removal of both the Cherokee and Osage. In 1828 the Western Cherokee agreed to exchange their Arkansas lands for a new location in Oklahoma. The boundaries were finally determined in 1833, although it took until 1835 to get the Osage to agree.

Meanwhile, the Cherokee homeland in the east was rapidly being whittled away by American settlement reflected by a series of treaties: Hopewell 1785; Holston 1791; Philadelphia 1794; Tellico 1798, 1804, 1805, and 1806. The final cession of ten million acres in 1806 by Doublehead (Chuquilatague) outraged many of the Cherokee and resulted in his assassination as a traitor by the faction led by Major Ridge (Kahnungdatlageh -"the man who walks the mountain top"). A new, mixed-blood leadership of Ridge and John Ross (Guwisguwi - blue eyes and 1/8 Cherokee) seized control determined not to yield any more of the Cherokee homeland while introducing major cultural changes. With a unity made possible by the departure of the more traditional Cherokee to Arkansas, in less than 30 years the Cherokee underwent the most remarkable adaptation to white culture of any Native American people. By 1817 the clan system of government had been replaced by an elected tribal council. A new capital was established at New Echota in 1825, and a written constitution modeled after that of the United States was added two years later.

Many Cherokee became prosperous farmers with comfortable houses, beautiful cultivated fields, and large herds of livestock. Christian missionaries arrived by invitation, and Sequoia invented an alphabet that gave them a written language and overnight made most of the Cherokee literate. They published a newspaper, established a court system, and built schools. An inventory of Cherokee property in 1826 revealed: 1,560 black slaves. 22,000 cattle, 7,600 horses, 46,000 swine, 2,500 sheep, 762 looms, 2,488 spinning wheels, 172 wagons, 2,942 plows, 10 sawmills, 31 grist mills, 62 blacksmith shops, 8 cotton machines, 18 schools, and 18 ferries. Although the poor Cherokee still lived in simple log cabins, Chief John Ross had a $10,000 house designed by a Philadelphia architect. In fact, many Cherokee were more prosperous and 'civilized' than their increasingly envious white neighbors.

Although the leadership of the eastern Cherokee steadfastly maintained their independence and land base, they felt it was important to reach an accommodation with the Americans. They refused Tecumseh's requests for Indian unity in 1811, ignored a call for war from the Red Stick Creek in 1813, and then fought as American allies during the Creek War (1813-14). 800 Cherokee under Major Ridge were with Jackson's army at Horseshoe Bend in 1814, and according one account, a Cherokee warrior saved Jackson's life during the battle. If Jackson was grateful, he never allowed it to show. At the Fort Jackson Treaty ending the war (1814), Jackson demanded huge land cessions from both the Cherokee and Creek. As allies, the Cherokee must have been stunned at this treatment, and reluctantly agreed only after a series of four treaties signed during 1816 and 1817.

The Cherokee government afterwards became even more determined not to surrender any more land, but things were moving against them. In 1802 Cherokee land had been promised by the federal government to the state of Georgia which afterwards refused to recognize either the Cherokee Nation or its land claims. By 1822 Georgia was pressing Congress to end Cherokee title within its boundaries. $30,000 was eventually appropriated as payment but refused. Then bribery was attempted but exposed, and the Cherokee responded with a law prescribing death for anyone selling land to whites without permission.

With the election of Jackson as president in 1828, the Cherokee were in serious trouble. Gold was discovered that year on Cherokee land in northern Georgia, and miners swarmed in. Indian removal to west of the Mississippi had been suggested as early as 1802 by Thomas Jefferson and recommended by James Monroe in his final address to Congress in 1825. With Jackson's full support, the Indian Removal Act was introduced in Congress in 1829. There it met serious opposition from Senators Daniel Webster and Henry Clay who were able to delay passage until 1830. Meanwhile, Jackson refused to enforce the treaties which protected the Cherokee homeland from encroachment. During the two years following his election, Georgia unilaterally extended its laws to Cherokee territory, dividing up Cherokee lands by lottery, and stripping the Cherokee of legal protection. Georgia citizens were free to kill, burn, and steal. With the only alternative a war which would result in annihilation, John Ross decided to fight for his people's rights in the United States courts.

The Cherokee won both cases brought before the Supreme Court: Cherokee Nation vs Georgia (1831) and Worcester vs Georgia(1832), but the legal victories were useless. Jackson's answer: "Justice Marshall has made his decision. Let him enforce it." Without federal interference, Georgia and Tennessee began a reign of terror using arrest, murder and arson against the Cherokee. Ross was arrested, and the offices of the Cherokee Phoenix burned in May, 1834. The mansion of the wealthiest Cherokee, Joseph Vann, was confiscated by the Georgia militia, and the Moravian mission and school was converted into a militia headquarters. When Ross travelled to Washington to protest, Jackson refused to see him. Instead overtures were made to Major Ridge, his son John Ridge, and nephew Elias Boudinot (Buck Oowatie), editor of the Phoenix (Cherokee newspaper). The hopelessness of the situation finally convinced these men to sign the Treaty of New Echota (December, 1835) surrendering the Cherokee Nation's homeland in exchange for $5,000,000, seven million acres in Oklahoma, and an agreement to remove within two years.

Known as the Treaty Party (Ridgites), only 350 of 17,000 Cherokee actually endorsed the agreement. Threatened by violence from their own people, they and 2,000 family members quickly gathered their property and left for Oklahoma. The treaty was clearly a fraud, and a petition of protest with 16,000 Cherokee signatures was dispatched to Washington to halt ratification. After violent debate, Jackson succeeded in pushing it through the Senate during May by the margin of a single vote. The Cherokee Nation was doomed. For the next two years, Ross tried every political and legal means to stop the removal, but failed. When the deadline arrived in May, 1838, 7,000 soldiers under General Winfield Scott (virtually the entire American Army) moved into the Cherokee homeland. The Cherokee found that their reward for 'taking the white mans road' was to be driven from their homes at gunpoint. It was the beginning of the Nunadautsun't or 'the trail where we cried.' History would call it the Trail of Tears.

Forced to abandon most of their property, the Cherokee were herded into hastily-built stockades at Rattlesnake Springs near Chattanooga. Little thought had been given to these, and in the crowded and unsanitary conditions, measles, whooping cough and dysentery took a terrible toll throughout the summer. After most of the Cherokee had been collected, relocation by boat began in August, but drought had made Tennessee River unusable. At this point Cherokee desperation contributed to the disaster. Not wishing to remain until spring in the lethal conditions at Rattlesnake Springs, Ross petitioned the government to allow the Cherokee to manage their own removal.

Permission was delayed until October. When it finally came, several large groups of Cherokee departed into the face of an approaching winter. They were marched west without adequate shelter, provisions, or food. The soldiers were under orders to move quickly and did little to protect them from whites who attacked and robbed the Cherokee of what little they had left. Two-thirds were trapped in southern Illinois by ice on the Mississippi and forced to remain for a month without shelter or supplies. As many as 4,000, including the wife of John Ross, died enroute. Many had to be left unburied beside the road.

Some Cherokee avoided the removal. Under the provisions of the 1817 and 1819 treaties, 400 Qualia of Chief Yonaguska who lived in North Carolina were United States citizens and owned their land individually. Not members of the Cherokee Nation, they were not subject to removal and allowed to stay.

Several hundred Cherokee escaped and hid in the mountains. The army used other Cherokee to hunt them. Tsali and two of his sons were captured and executed after they had killed a soldier trying to capture them. In 1842 the army gave up the effort, and the fugitive Cherokee were allowed to remain in an "unofficial" status. Formal recognition came in 1848 when Congress agreed to recognize the Eastern Cherokee provided North Carolina would do likewise.

Currently there are more than 8,000 Eastern Cherokee who living in the mountains of western North Carolina. The Echota Cherokee Tribe in Alabama is another group descended from individual Cherokee landowners protected from removal by the 1817 and 1819 treaties.

At the same time as the Trail of Tears, another group of Cherokee was being forcibly removed to Oklahoma ...from Texas. In 1807, after the Louisiana Purchase, the Spanish government was nervously watching the American expansion towards Texas and requested a number of tribes to resettle in eastern Texas as a buffer against the Americans. The first Cherokee settlement in the region was at Lost Prairie in 1819, and it received a land grant in 1822. After the successful revolt by the Texans in 1835, a treaty confirming the Cherokee title failed ratification in the Texas legislature during 1836 despite the strong support of President Sam Houston. White Texans pressed for the removal, and in July of 1839 three Texas regiments attacked the Cherokee of Chief Bowl and forced them across the Red River into Oklahoma. The irony of the Cherokee situation in Oklahoma in 1839 should not be lost. No matter what course chosen: war, accommodation, surrender, or flight; their fate had been the same.

Of the Five Civilized Tribes, the Creek, Choctaw and Seminole received similar treatment during removal, although the Chickasaw had foreseen what was coming and prepared better. Following removal, all had major problems, but the Cherokee had the most bitter internal divisions. Gathered together for the first time in 50 years, the Cherokee in Oklahoma were ready for civil war during the spring of 1839. 6,000 Western Cherokee (Old Settlers) from Arkansas and Texas had been living there since 1828 and defending themselves from the Osage, Kiowa, Wichita, and Comanche. They had maintained their traditional government of three chiefs without written laws. Suddenly 14,000 Eastern Cherokee (New Settlers) arrived in their midst with an elaborate government, court system, and a written constitution, but the newcomers were bitterly divided between 2,000 Ridgites (Treaty Party) and 12,000 Rossites who had just lost 4,000 of their people on the Trail of Tears.

Violence was not long in coming. On June 22, Major Ridge, John Ridge, and Elias Boudinot were murdered. Stand Watie, Boudinot's brother and Major Ridge's nephew, was the only leader of the Treaty Party to escape. The assassinations effectively silenced the Treaty Party, but the hatreds endured. This left only two contending groups: west and east. The Western Cherokee refused to accept any of the new changes, while the more numerous Eastern Cherokee considered themselves superior and would not compromise. The first meeting of these factions failed to reach agreement. At a second meeting, Ross could only obtain the signature of one western chief but proceeded anyway to organize a government. However, the majority of the western Cherokee and the Treaty Party refused to recognize it. For the next six years there was civil war over borders and jurisdiction
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Old 01-25-2009, 09:44 AM   #120
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This History has been compiled from several sources and then merged
This is due to the viewpoint of the writer is somewhat different from another

I highlighted several important passages in these writings

1) Cherokees had been moving to Western Lands for a long time
2) The Clan system had been set aside in early 1817
3) The several hundred that hid out were actually recognized by 1846 and settled with Qualla in North Carolina
4) Our presence in Kentucky ended long before 1763 and if you look further back we left that area in the early 1700's due to a series of Wars with the Iroquois from 1702 to 1753
5) All of this has been well documented...
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