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Old 03-29-2010, 09:26 AM   #1
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Question Hi, i am obviously new to this place, but ...

Hi, I am a mixed breed and I am a veteran. I have been trying to discover information about my maternal great grand parents, as well as, my paternal ancestry on both sides. The problems, at least on the maternal side are two-fold. My great grandmother (my mother's father's mother)was Cherokee (we think). She died in childbirth sometime between 1908 & the time of the 1910 census. She was not married at the time of the 1900 census, so I cannot find her in a census during her married life. I also have not been able to find a marriage certificate. I thought I may have found her in a census living with her brother and his wife & their infant, but I cannot be sure it is her, because she has the extremely common last name of Smith. I believe it was a name that was picked for them (though I have an aunt who insists that we are descended from John Smith of Pocahontas fame, though no one knows where she came up with it nor through which line she also somehow managed to get her tribal papers, but it was through a woman who has since been accused of mishandling tribal paperwork and while I believe they allowed my aunt's tribal admittance to stand, none of the rest of us can get it through the same way, I don't understand it). Anyway, needless to say I have hit a huge wall when trying to get anywhere with gaining any information on her. Meanwhile, my great grand mother (mother's mother's mother) was adopted at age 4 along with her siblings who survived the flu outbreak. The children were split up and went to two families. So that has become a road block as well. We believe she is at the very least half Native American, but we do not know what tribe or tribes she may be from. Those are two of my challenges, and does not even touch on the problems in finding information on my paternal grandmother's heritage.
Anyone have any thoughts, ideas as to how I might proceed, places to look, etc., would be very much appreciated. Thanks ahead
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Old 03-29-2010, 09:38 AM   #2
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I wish you the best but what happened to you is the fault of the US government to eradicate us like roaches. You are living proof of this practice.
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Old 03-29-2010, 05:06 PM   #3
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You should post your questions here:

Ancestry and Genealogy - PowWows.com - Your portal to Native American Tribal Culture

Timmy Tiger is the moderator of that forum and she is one of our resident genealogists. Okwataga is also someone you may wish to consult. I consider her the expert on all things Cherokee and she and Timmy Tiger should be able to point you in the right direction and suggest resources.
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Old 03-29-2010, 09:58 PM   #4
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Originally Posted by fubar View Post
Hi, I am a mixed breed and I am a veteran. I have been trying to discover information about my maternal great grand parents, as well as, my paternal ancestry on both sides. The problems, at least on the maternal side are two-fold. My great grandmother (my mother's father's mother)was Cherokee (we think). She died in childbirth sometime between 1908 & the time of the 1910 census. She was not married at the time of the 1900 census, so I cannot find her in a census during her married life. I also have not been able to find a marriage certificate. I thought I may have found her in a census living with her brother and his wife & their infant, but I cannot be sure it is her, because she has the extremely common last name of Smith. I believe it was a name that was picked for them (though I have an aunt who insists that we are descended from John Smith of Pocahontas fame, though no one knows where she came up with it nor through which line she also somehow managed to get her tribal papers, but it was through a woman who has since been accused of mishandling tribal paperwork and while I believe they allowed my aunt's tribal admittance to stand, none of the rest of us can get it through the same way, I don't understand it). Anyway, needless to say I have hit a huge wall when trying to get anywhere with gaining any information on her. Meanwhile, my great grand mother (mother's mother's mother) was adopted at age 4 along with her siblings who survived the flu outbreak. The children were split up and went to two families. So that has become a road block as well. We believe she is at the very least half Native American, but we do not know what tribe or tribes she may be from. Those are two of my challenges, and does not even touch on the problems in finding information on my paternal grandmother's heritage.
Anyone have any thoughts, ideas as to how I might proceed, places to look, etc., would be very much appreciated. Thanks ahead

Hello and welcome to the forums.

First of all let me clear up a very major myth in history. Pocohantas never married John Smith, so that's not your line at all. She did actually marry a man by the name of John Rolf and they had one son together who was two years old when she passed away in England. He was raised in England by her sister and her husband until he was an adult and he came to Virginia and lived the rest of his life. Some historians believe that he married and had two sons in England as well, but what happened to those children, I have no clue.

Now as far as your Mother's Father's mother goes. That's not as hard as you may think it would be to find. Acttually NC has birth and death records back to 1908 and you can find them and obtain them. It seems like you are looking for her name first of all. Well, again that's not all that hard either. But you will have to go through your mother's father to get to her. Start with yourself and then your mother, get her birth certificate and make sure you have her right father, especially with the last name of Smith. Then from there, if your grandfather is dead, get his death cert first, then his marriage cert. And then his birth cert. Now that will show you where he was born and who his parents were, should have on it his mother's maiden name even. Then from there you should be able to find your grandfather's mother's name and where they were at the time of his birth. You said that she died in Childbirth. Was it with your grandfather? If so, then right there you have the area where she died as well and should have no problem getting her death cert and finding out who and where she comes from. That's a start anyway. Tackle the rest after you get this.

And who is your Aunt enrolled through? It may be a "blood quantium" thing and if it is you will not be able to enroll even if you find the info.
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Old 03-31-2010, 02:25 AM   #5
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I guess I wasn't too clear now that I look back. I did know that John Smith didn't marry Pocahontas, I was only using her name to emphasize which John Smith my aunt claims we are related to.

On the subject of my great grandmother who died in child birth, I have tried all of the things you have listed prior to this posting. She died in childbirth with her 4th child (not my grand sire). Her maiden name is Smith and is the one that I believe was not a family name, but possibly one that was applied by other means. I know approx. where she died, and I know it was within the years I listed before. I have not been able to find a death certificate for her. If my great aunt had not been so vain as to refuse to allow the listing of her birth date, I could have at least used that as a start, but, I looked on ancestry.com for information on her and could not find anything. The problem is that even using the name of my grandfather's father, I cannot find a marriage certificate for that wife. The commonality of the name is a hindrance and the lack of familial information is as well. As she died when my grand father was around 5 or 6 & his father then killed himself when he was 15 or 16 (my grandfather). So he did not have much information either. He also could not seem to get more out of paternal relatives, than the fact that she stayed in the kitchen, appeared shy, was "a squaw" & didn't talk much. He didn't know anything about her side other than they were Cherokee. The only record that I have discovered that may be her is the one I mentioned of a woman of the right age and name living with her brother's family in the 1890 census. I think the name comes from a white man's school. My grandfather was told, by his father shortly before his suicide, that his people were part of the Trail of Tears. I have looked into the information on the Trail of Tears and since I am not sure who it is that I am looking for I haven't gotten very far.

The aunt that got tribal admission did so through an office in Paragould, AR. The person who she received this from has since been removed and accused of falsifying or some other scandalous means of giving admission into the tribe wrongfully and without proper documentation. Thank you for your help.
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Old 03-31-2010, 02:26 AM   #6
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Old 03-31-2010, 02:46 AM   #7
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I guess I wasn't too clear now that I look back. I did know that John Smith didn't marry Pocahontas, I was only using her name to emphasize which John Smith my aunt claims we are related to.

On the subject of my great grandmother who died in child birth, I have tried all of the things you have listed prior to this posting. She died in childbirth with her 4th child (not my grand sire). Her maiden name is Smith and is the one that I believe was not a family name, but possibly one that was applied by other means. I know approx. where she died, and I know it was within the years I listed before. I have not been able to find a death certificate for her. If my great aunt had not been so vain as to refuse to allow the listing of her birth date, I could have at least used that as a start, but, I looked on ancestry.com for information on her and could not find anything. The problem is that even using the name of my grandfather's father, I cannot find a marriage certificate for that wife. The commonality of the name is a hindrance and the lack of familial information is as well. As she died when my grand father was around 5 or 6 & his father then killed himself when he was 15 or 16 (my grandfather). So he did not have much information either. He also could not seem to get more out of paternal relatives, than the fact that she stayed in the kitchen, appeared shy, was "a squaw" & didn't talk much. He didn't know anything about her side other than they were Cherokee. The only record that I have discovered that may be her is the one I mentioned of a woman of the right age and name living with her brother's family in the 1890 census. I think the name comes from a white man's school. My grandfather was told, by his father shortly before his suicide, that his people were part of the Trail of Tears. I have looked into the information on the Trail of Tears and since I am not sure who it is that I am looking for I haven't gotten very far.

The aunt that got tribal admission did so through an office in Paragould, AR. The person who she received this from has since been removed and accused of falsifying or some other scandalous means of giving admission into the tribe wrongfully and without proper documentation. Thank you for your help.
Okay, is your Aunt, the one you say is very vein, is she still living? If she's not then you can obtain her death cert and it should show you how old she was.

I didn't mean that you couldn't come from John Smith, basically if you were saying that you came through the Pocohantas or Cherokee lines then you couldn't 'cause he went back to England and I believe stayed there.

Now you're saying that you've done all the things that I mentioned, but if you aren't sure where for sure that she died then you could be looking in the wrong places and you won't get what you're looking for unless you look in the right place.

If it was her 4th child, then if you know that childs name go through them to get the info. It's not as hard as you think. I've looked up many many common names and been able to seperate them. My maiden name was extremely common as well. it can be done, it just takes time and patience. Not aggravation and hurry, you will wind up getting no where fast doing that. It took generations for you to get here, it's going to take some time for you to trace it all back. It's not going to happen over night.

Now you said that you found them on the 1890 Census? Okay there you have me confused. You see the 1890 Census' were pretty much all destroyed by a flood or fire, something along those lines. Only a very few States kept their records of there own for that year and they are not on Ancestry, well not as of the last time I was on there. the 1890 Census is primarily a census of Civil war Veterans and/or their widows.

So what state are you looking at? You mentioned Arkasas. And what name is it you are looking for, someone might have more info to share with you.

You also mention a gr-grandma who was adopted out. You said that the children were split up between two families. Well if that's the case then do you know the family names? Also, if it was any time after 1880-1900 there should be court records in the county where they were adopted. That's where I would start on that one. At the court house going through the old records.
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Old 03-31-2010, 02:48 AM   #8
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I agree with you about the many terrors distributed by the people who decided that they were entitled to this land inhabited by a entities that not only kept them alive, but shared with them ways to continue to live, befriended them, and accepted them. These terrors were arranged partly because of this acceptance and trust and partly because these entities were not seen as real people in the eyes of many. They were savages, but the white man has proved who the true savages are over and over. Their lies, cheating, and abuses, were minor to there complete and utter genocide of many tribes and the near genocide of many more. Their determination to obliterate the native peoples was ruthless in that if they could not kill them,they tried to destroy their culture, they tried to remove their children and make them whitish, they tried to remove their food source, then they moved them into barren spots of land and when gold and oil was found there they tried to move them and take it too. The government needs to make restitution to the natives of this land long before it does so to any others. Fortunately some of the natives survived, though many tribes and cultures are forever lost. I would not be here if all of the native people were destroyed, but I wold not have such trouble finding my ancestors if they had not tried to wipe out the cukture and beliefs of my people by stealing their children.
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Old 03-31-2010, 02:58 AM   #9
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Okay, now you kind of lost me.

I know what you are saying. I go to colleges with a good friend of mine who was part of the relocation act and we discuss the relocation and all of that other stuff. But you were asking for help. We are giving you help and now you go on about how the gov distroyed Native people's. That really has nothing to do with you finding your relations.

And I'm not sure what you mean by "I agree with you". I didn't say anything about any of that in this thread. Unless you've read some of my other posts, but this is about helping you get where you are wanting to go. And for that we have to stick to the subject at hand and that is WHERE to look.
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Old 03-31-2010, 03:27 AM   #10
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I did spend a lot of time combing through the info. I do not have the info about the search in front of me so I could have put down the wrong census year. I actually think that it may have been the 1900 one as I know that me gr-grand sire was in it as well, it was just before they had married. The 4th child's dead now, but as I do not know where she died and her family is apparently still keeping the birth date private on ancestry.com, I have not managed to get it.
The name is Minnie Lee Smith, AR is the state and the area could be one of a few counties, but I cannot get to my info right now so I cannot give any other specifics. I must admit it has been a few years since I actually tried to look her up and I know that it is possible that I may be able to find a little more information now.
As I said before, I am not sure at what point the Smith name was applied to the family, but this is not the ancestor with ties to the John Smith I referred to before. The census entry that I found that I think may be her also did not get me too far, but I cannot remember why now. I am still baffled over the lack of marriage and death records for her. I am relatively sure about the area where she died and have even searched areas around where I know her daughter was born. I searched over a number of years, but focused more on 1908 & 09 as I know about how old my grandfather was.

On the adopted gr-grandmother I have been able to find out some information that was supplied by a descendant of one of her sisters that was not put in the same family as my gr-grand mother, and only on one side. It was in the 1880-90's and again I do not have the records to look at right now. I am just trying to find where else to look.
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Old 03-31-2010, 03:37 AM   #11
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Well, I happen to have my sites open right now as I was working on another research project that I have. So if you want to give me a county in Ark or who you show her brother to be, I might be able to find the one grandmother you are questioning. Minnie Lee Smith. I'm already in one of the sites that I work really well in. What was her married name? What was your grandfather's name?
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Old 03-31-2010, 03:53 AM   #12
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How about was it:

John Anderson Broadaway b. dec 18, 1867 and he died mar 20, 1920? In Craighead Co, AR

And she died while having Bertha?

He was married for a second time and the name Minnie was originally put in as his wife and then crossed off and the name Nannie was put in, she was 24 years older then he was at that time. This is all according to the 1920 Census records.
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Old 03-31-2010, 04:02 AM   #13
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Okay: John A. Broadaway was born Dec. 18, 1867 and he died Mar 20, 1920 in Craighead Co, AR. He is buried in the Old Enterprise Cemetery in Craighead Co. His only wife listed on his burial info says he was married to an Elsie Watkins Broadaway and that she died in 1958. But based on the 1920 Census we do know that this is incorrect.

So now, that's where to start and is that the same county that you found Minnie living with her brother in? The next step would be to visit the nearby cemeteries if the county says that they don't have a death cert on her, but I bet they do. I'm going to look a little more and see if I can find something more on either of them.

Okay I have the right people. More burial info shows that he was the son of James Madison Broadaway and Nancy Ann Margaret Bishop and that he was first married to Minnie Smith. And 2nd to Marzee Eliza Watkins who he married on april 4, 1912 in Craighead Co, AR.

Both his parents are also buried in that same Cemetery and so is his second wife, but no listing, so far, of his first wife being buried there. It's a possibility that she was but that it just hasn't been listed, yet, or that she was buried somewhere else. But that's them.

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Old 03-31-2010, 09:17 AM   #14
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Sorry I thought I was replying to a different post that some one had as a reply to my original post. I am not sure that I understand exactly how the post reply button works. I had clicked on the reply from another person and do not know how I thought it would post, but I apologize for the way it turned out. I will have to get more familiar with the way this works.
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Old 03-31-2010, 09:53 AM   #15
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These are the correct ones and I have information on both the Broadaway & the Bishop families going way back. Minnie Lee actually died during the birth of Retha not Bertha. Bertha was the daughter before, My grandfather is Ammon, the first born, then his brother Oliver, Bertha, & Retha. Oliver dies either the same year or the year before Minnie. I cannot get to my information as it is currently on a computer that has to be repaired, so I cannot get to the information with the area where I found the Minnie Lee that I think MAY be my gr-grandmother. I really appreciate your looking into this for me.

Nannie was one of the names that Marzee Elsa Watkins went by, she is no relation to me though she bore several children to John.

I checked on both the marriage and the death certificates for Minnie, but found neither. I have checked for them in several counties in AR, besides the area where they were believed to live.
I used the information from the Census to search for birth records for the Minnie and her brother in the state that was listed as their birth place, but could not find anything.
Thank you for the help.

The strange posts were replies to the first and second replies I had to my original post and I do not know why they did not show that.
Again, I am sorry that it appeared to be replies to you.
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Old 03-31-2010, 11:58 AM   #16
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Okay.

Well, I found some more info last night that I didn't get posted.

I figured that it was Reatha that she died with.

Bertha was born sept 7, 1904 and she died oct 18, 2003 in Craighead, Ar. She married James H. Cox. I would get her death cert and see if it shows where she was born, her birth info might give you some leads.

Did you ever get Ammons birth info? That should give you leads as to where he was born and if all the kids were born in the same county then it would stand to reason that Minnie died there and that's where to start looking. It might be misspelled or Minnie might have been a nick name and she might have had a different actual first name.

Reatha married Cecil E. Coleman and i found death info on him as being sept 1974 in Hempstead, AR. But I didn't find any death info on her at all. Unless she remarried after his death and I didn't find that at all, doesn't meant it didn't happen. But you could look for their marriage record in Craighead Co, AR and that should lead you to where she was born and if Minnie died in Childbirth with her, then that's where Minnie Died as well. You would just have to look for it.

Do you remember Minnie's brother's name?
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Old 03-31-2010, 01:58 PM   #17
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Pocohantas never married John Smith, so that's not your line at all.
Don't worry you mite not be as fubar as you think! While Pocohantas never married John Smith, legends say they most certainly snagged. They met at the Blue Corn Moon powwow, and ledgend says they had a love child. The child stayed with the people when Pocahantes went over the big water. So while they may have never married, don't sweat hearing they did'nt have a child. At least this is what I've heard, I wasn't there at the time. There are also many movies that document their love.
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Old 03-31-2010, 02:19 PM   #18
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Don't worry you mite not be as fubar as you think! While Pocohantas never married John Smith, legends say they most certainly snagged. They met at the Blue Corn Moon powwow, and ledgend says they had a love child. The child stayed with the people when Pocahantes went over the big water. So while they may have never married, don't sweat hearing they did'nt have a child. At least this is what I've heard, I wasn't there at the time. There are also many movies that document their love.
Yep, I've heard the same rumors that you are speaking of.

But then, also, in England the historians there have found a ledger that they claim is John Smith's original events and accounts of his time with her people and supposedly it states taht they were just friends and that nothing ever happened romantically between them and where he supposedly admits that he made all that stuff up himself after she passed away to regain favor with the English people 'cause he was loosing the favor of the people and they loved her so much that he used his friendship with her to advance his political career.

But hey that could have all been made up too.

As you said I wasn't around back then either. But proving it would be another task all togerher.LOL

I think we'd need the aliens for that one.
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Old 03-31-2010, 02:36 PM   #19
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Yep, I've heard the same rumors that you are speaking of.

But then, also, in England the historians there have found a ledger that they claim is John Smith's original events and accounts of his time with her people and supposedly it states taht they were just friends and that nothing ever happened romantically between them and where he supposedly admits that he made all that stuff up himself after she passed away to regain favor with the English people 'cause he was loosing the favor of the people and they loved her so much that he used his friendship with her to advance his political career.

.
It's all man's basic nature. John boy had a wife back home in jolly old england. So of course his ledgers were doctored. "Dear diary, today I met this lil girl named Pocahontas, she was really tryin to snag me but all I could think of was my Bessie back home. Plus she was too young for me, immature and all. She was real ugly and acted all stank, so I hooked her up with ol' Rolfie (I hate that guy). Boy, I sure do miss my wife".

Of course after ol Bessie died and John Smith was old and couldn't pull hot chicks anymore, he got to thinking of the fine native women he saw from back in his younger days on turtle island he started braggin around about that one time at the blue corn moon powwow.
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Old 03-31-2010, 04:57 PM   #20
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It's all man's basic nature. John boy had a wife back home in jolly old england. So of course his ledgers were doctored. "Dear diary, today I met this lil girl named Pocahontas, she was really tryin to snag me but all I could think of was my Bessie back home. Plus she was too young for me, immature and all. She was real ugly and acted all stank, so I hooked her up with ol' Rolfie (I hate that guy). Boy, I sure do miss my wife".

Of course after ol Bessie died and John Smith was old and couldn't pull hot chicks anymore, he got to thinking of the fine native women he saw from back in his younger days on turtle island he started braggin around about that one time at the blue corn moon powwow.



Now that was a good one.

Hmm but it makes me wonder what her diary would read if she wrote one.

Something like:

"Dear Diary. I met some old white dude today from England. He has an old hag of a wife and showed me her picture. He was coming on to me pretty hard and I just wasn't interested in his oldness. Oh but he has a friend named Rolf. Oh now he's choice and I wouldn't mind getting jiggy with him any time any place. He can light my tee pee fire any time he wants.":



I guess I should think twice about going to a corn moon pow wow. Wouldn't want some old guy thinking of me that way when he can't give change anymore.
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