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Old 09-01-2014, 08:38 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by Maize-Grower View Post

but we've been living away from there for over 90 years now. I have been there when my grandma took me down there before, but I don't really know anybody very well .
So .....just how old are you ? You say your grandma took you there and you've been away from there 90 years ???

So , you are 94 +. I say 94 because most kids don't remember back farther than 4 or so.

Just askin"
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I believe blood quantums are the governments way to breed us out of existance !


They say blood is thicker than water ! Now maple syrup is thicker than blood , so are pancakes more important than family ?

There are "Elders" and there are "Olders". Being the second one doesn't make the first one true !

Somebody is out there somewhere, thinking of you and the impact you made in their life.
It's not me....I think you're an idiot !





There's a chance you might not like me ,

but there's a bigger

chance I won't care
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Old 09-01-2014, 08:42 PM   #22
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Originally Posted by Josiah View Post
Non Government Enrolled is a meaningless term...

Here is Why, The three Federally Recognized tribes of the Cherokees all Self Determine who is a Citizen.
Not the Federal Government.
The Federal Government only Recognizes the Tribe, not who is a member of that tribe...

Even when the Rolls were formed those rolls were received from the Cherokees themselves and were used to determine by the FEDERAL GOVERNMENT who was RECOGNIZED by THE TRIBE to be a CITIZEN!
In the Case of the Cherokees in Oklahoma over 200,000 people applied for Land only 43,000 were granted allotment and over 5000 of that number (Fullbloods called Nighthawks) refused,protested and were still enrolled by the Dawes Commission!!
The Eastern Cherokees had several citizen rolls and use the Baker Roll and for that matter even refer to the Guion Miller Roll for Guidance...

But Josiah , it sounds so much more official when you say it that way. That's to impress those who don't know and are easily impressed by that sort of official "indianess"!
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__________________
I believe blood quantums are the governments way to breed us out of existance !


They say blood is thicker than water ! Now maple syrup is thicker than blood , so are pancakes more important than family ?

There are "Elders" and there are "Olders". Being the second one doesn't make the first one true !

Somebody is out there somewhere, thinking of you and the impact you made in their life.
It's not me....I think you're an idiot !





There's a chance you might not like me ,

but there's a bigger

chance I won't care
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Old 09-01-2014, 11:47 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wardancer View Post
So .....just how old are you ? You say your grandma took you there and you've been away from there 90 years ???

So , you are 94 +. I say 94 because most kids don't remember back farther than 4 or so.

Just askin"
We, as in, My family. I'm only 25.
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Old 09-02-2014, 12:03 AM   #24
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At this point, I'm pretty sure you guys are just messing with me. Nitpicking every little thing is fairly trollish. I've already explained why I said what I did, and answering further is beating a dead horse.
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Old 09-02-2014, 10:06 AM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Maize-Grower View Post
At this point, I'm pretty sure you guys are just messing with me. Nitpicking every little thing is fairly trollish. I've already explained why I said what I did, and answering further is beating a dead horse.
Yep
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Old 09-02-2014, 11:20 AM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Maize-Grower View Post
Tribal governments are governments too dude.
Sure and that Tribal Governmentstill determines who is a Tribal Member.

You can say you have Heritage just like people say they have Irish Heritage or Italian even Slavic
But to say I am a "NGE Cherokee" makes it sound like you are claiming that is a Status or some sort of State of Citizenship.

It would be the same as saying I am a Non British Citizen while in a sense true in reality a meaningless term
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Old 09-02-2014, 09:37 PM   #27
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Originally Posted by Josiah View Post
Sure and that Tribal Governmentstill determines who is a Tribal Member.

You can say you have Heritage just like people say they have Irish Heritage or Italian even Slavic
But to say I am a "NGE Cherokee" makes it sound like you are claiming that is a Status or some sort of State of Citizenship.

It would be the same as saying I am a Non British Citizen while in a sense true in reality a meaningless term
I was straight up saying I wasn't a citizen. And I explained that when you got confused.

Chill homie.
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Old 09-02-2014, 09:48 PM   #28
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Originally Posted by Maize-Grower View Post
And I explained that when you got confused.

Chill homie.
We didn't get confused. We just weren't impressed. Josiah knows more about the People you claim to be a part of , than you could learn in 3 lifetimes.I would recommend a bit of respect , but that's up to you......homie

Oh yeah , and he IS a Tribally Recognized Member of The Cherokee Nation of Oklahomies !
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__________________
I believe blood quantums are the governments way to breed us out of existance !


They say blood is thicker than water ! Now maple syrup is thicker than blood , so are pancakes more important than family ?

There are "Elders" and there are "Olders". Being the second one doesn't make the first one true !

Somebody is out there somewhere, thinking of you and the impact you made in their life.
It's not me....I think you're an idiot !





There's a chance you might not like me ,

but there's a bigger

chance I won't care

Last edited by wardancer; 09-02-2014 at 09:51 PM..
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Old 09-02-2014, 11:06 PM   #29
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Originally Posted by wardancer View Post
We didn't get confused. We just weren't impressed. Josiah knows more about the People you claim to be a part of , than you could learn in 3 lifetimes.I would recommend a bit of respect , but that's up to you......homie

Oh yeah , and he IS a Tribally Recognized Member of The Cherokee Nation of Oklahomies !
Saying "I'm Native" in a room full of Natives isn't impressive, just introductory. I hope you, he, and I will get along in the future; but I think we need to just stop with the strife first. I should have phrased stuff differently, and you guys shouldn't make assumptions about people you've just met. We're equally at fault for this.

I can't say I'm envious of anyone stuck out in the desert either. Sorry to hear that.

<< Josaiah, teh grumpy cacti

"Oklahomies"
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Old 09-03-2014, 12:54 AM   #30
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Desert?

The Springfield Plateau and the Boston Mnts in Northeast OK are pretty country. Not desert like at all. I'm told the fishing on Tenkiller Lake is pretty good. The area is hickory oak forest like much of the Tennessee Valley. The understory and floor growth is different.

But you come out here to TX. We'll take you down to Big Bend and show you some desert :)
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Last edited by OLChemist; 09-03-2014 at 12:55 AM.. Reason: Grammar
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Old 09-03-2014, 01:55 AM   #31
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Well , you know , once again he speaks of something he knows nothing about , with an attitude nobody likes. But , I'm not strifin' !
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__________________
I believe blood quantums are the governments way to breed us out of existance !


They say blood is thicker than water ! Now maple syrup is thicker than blood , so are pancakes more important than family ?

There are "Elders" and there are "Olders". Being the second one doesn't make the first one true !

Somebody is out there somewhere, thinking of you and the impact you made in their life.
It's not me....I think you're an idiot !





There's a chance you might not like me ,

but there's a bigger

chance I won't care
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Old 09-03-2014, 01:57 AM   #32
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Oh , maybe he meant desert....I saw a recipe for some blueberry pie ??? Hmmm..........
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__________________
I believe blood quantums are the governments way to breed us out of existance !


They say blood is thicker than water ! Now maple syrup is thicker than blood , so are pancakes more important than family ?

There are "Elders" and there are "Olders". Being the second one doesn't make the first one true !

Somebody is out there somewhere, thinking of you and the impact you made in their life.
It's not me....I think you're an idiot !





There's a chance you might not like me ,

but there's a bigger

chance I won't care
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Old 09-03-2014, 07:08 AM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Maize-Grower View Post
Saying "I'm Native" in a room full of Natives isn't impressive, just introductory. I hope you, he, and I will get along in the future; but I think we need to just stop with the strife first. I should have phrased stuff differently, and you guys shouldn't make assumptions about people you've just met. We're equally at fault for this.

I can't say I'm envious of anyone stuck out in the desert either. Sorry to hear that.

<< Josaiah, teh grumpy cacti

"Oklahomies"
Its Josiah pronounced Jo-si-ah
I was named for my grandpa who did not runaway...
Call me the Myth Buster
You Say NGE Cherokee, I say no such thing
You say Desert, I say Trees and streams what is called Green Country.
You are not the first to come to these forums and say Cherokee something or another
You will not be the last,

No, I write these posts for other people to read for they may think there is such a thing as a Desert in Oklahoma or such a thing as a NGE Cherokee
You will always believe what you want to, my writings wont change that. But for those that dont know anything about our people perhaaps they will come away with a better understanding.
If not that is there business and what I write wont change things...

I find it fascinating however that these kinds threads follow a predictable pattern.
Being called Grumpy is a new one though
LoL
Its usually stronger language
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Last edited by Josiah; 09-03-2014 at 08:17 AM.. Reason: Clarify
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Old 09-03-2014, 09:21 AM   #34
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Originally Posted by Josiah View Post
Its Josiah pronounced Jo-si-ah
I was named for my grandpa who did not runaway...
Call me the Myth Buster
You Say NGE Cherokee, I say no such thing
You say Desert, I say Trees and streams what is called Green Country.
You are not the first to come to these forums and say Cherokee something or another
You will not be the last,

No, I write these posts for other people to read for they may think there is such a thing as a Desert in Oklahoma or such a thing as a NGE Cherokee
You will always believe what you want to, my writings wont change that. But for those that dont know anything about our people perhaaps they will come away with a better understanding.
If not that is there business and what I write wont change things...

I find it fascinating however that these kinds threads follow a predictable pattern.
Being called Grumpy is a new one though
LoL
Its usually stronger language
My bad on the misspelling. I must have read that wrong.

I've been to OK... There's a bunch of flat and brown. It's pretty dry too. Only nice place I saw was up in the mountains near Stigler, and that was my Great-great-Uncle's small-ish ranch.

"You are not the first to come to these forums and say Cherokee something or another"
I saw that one nut going on about a head-band and a DNA test... Doesn't he know DNA tests are pretty much useless for anything other than establishing probability of paternity/maternity? I can see why you'd be leery of people making a claim of the same tribe. I don't know why all the nuts pick the same one. But I'm not one of those... I actually have the genealogy papers to back my claim, the requisite blood quantum, and ancestors on the rolls before the Baker rolls. My only problem is that my family left before the Baker Rolls were taken, so we're not on the ones currently used for determining citizenship. If the internal law changed to descent from Guion Miller rolls for example, I would be down there filling out the paperwork in mere days. I'm not enrolled as a citizen. But that doesn't mean that I have no connection whatsoever. Family is family no matter what the law is.
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Old 09-03-2014, 10:10 AM   #35
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At the risk of thread highjacking....

It's funny how our experience the plants and topography surrounding us shape our expectations. I grew up going back and forth between NW Nebraska and SW Pennsylvania. Some black eyed susans, flowering spurge and ironweed growing the along the ditch or fence line, or some jewel weed, may apples and a beech tree or two and my internal compass says I know where I am. I didn't have to have a clear line of sight.

When I was an ungrad my roommate (soon to be best friend), raised within 1/4 mile of the Pacific Ocean in the wilds of Palos Verdes, commented as we were driving TN 73 through the mountains, that she felt a little claustrophobic. There could be anything lurking out there in those trees. I laughed at her. I loved the area, it felt homey.

After a decade and a half away from the area, living in NM and TX, I was able to start going back east. I was traveling with my former roommate down TN 73 heading into Townsend. I had been oddly tense since leaving the interstate. I realized I was missing my clear light of sight.

Well that was a lame observation on human nature.
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Old 09-03-2014, 01:35 PM   #36
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At the risk of thread highjacking....

It's funny how our experience the plants and topography surrounding us shape our expectations. I grew up going back and forth between NW Nebraska and SW Pennsylvania. Some black eyed susans, flowering spurge and ironweed growing the along the ditch or fence line, or some jewel weed, may apples and a beech tree or two and my internal compass says I know where I am. I didn't have to have a clear line of sight.

When I was an ungrad my roommate (soon to be best friend), raised within 1/4 mile of the Pacific Ocean in the wilds of Palos Verdes, commented as we were driving TN 73 through the mountains, that she felt a little claustrophobic. There could be anything lurking out there in those trees. I laughed at her. I loved the area, it felt homey.

After a decade and a half away from the area, living in NM and TX, I was able to start going back east. I was traveling with my former roommate down TN 73 heading into Townsend. I had been oddly tense since leaving the interstate. I realized I was missing my clear light of sight.

Well that was a lame observation on human nature.
Reminds me of a story about Topography:
I started a job in Washington State some years ago and upon hearing I was from Oklahoma a coworker tells me:
"we once drove thru Oklahoma"... it was nothing but Sagebrush and Sand!!
I asked them what part of the State did they drive thru and what time of the Year and they said: Well I-40 of course and it was May...
So then I asked what towns did they remember passing thru and they said well it was the middle of the night mostly, but they do remember stopping in a little town to get gas early in the morning and it was called Tucumcari! I said well you do realize that is in New Mexico right?? They said no waaay! They thought the Dust Bowl was still in full force and just assumed that all of Oklahoma looked that way!!

I have traveled from Coast to Coast and I still hear the Dust Bowl story and when I tell them no we do have trees I am told they don't believe me!!

BTW Most of the effects of the Dust Bowl were to the West of Oklahoma in the Panhandle of Texas, New Mexico, Kansas and Colorado but because of the Movie the Grapes of Wrath people still believe that Oklahoma is a Dust Bowl and a Desert
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Old 09-03-2014, 01:41 PM   #37
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Desert?

The Springfield Plateau and the Boston Mnts in Northeast OK are pretty country. Not desert like at all. I'm told the fishing on Tenkiller Lake is pretty good. The area is hickory oak forest like much of the Tennessee Valley. The understory and floor growth is different.

But you come out here to TX. We'll take you down to Big Bend and show you some desert :)
I am from around Lake Tenkiller and I can say that is some of the prettiest places I have ever been. (I lived in Western Washington for 20 years)
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Old 09-03-2014, 03:11 PM   #38
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This thread was hijacked very early on.


Whenever anyone brings up the topic of driving across country I always hear "Avoid Oklahoma, it is the most boring state to drive though". I completely disagree with them, Indiana and Illinois are the most boring states to drive though - if you only stick to the interstates that is. Oklahoma is a really nice drive and there is plenty of pretty sights especially the prairie. Maybe he is referring to the red dirt as being desert like? The dry heat in some areas is something to be envious of especially given that the humidity here has been awful this week.

It is all about perspective. I like where I live, between the largest city and the 5th largest city in the US. We have a lot within only a few hours drive - large cities, infrastructure, lakes, streams, rivers, parks, woodlands, mountains, and beaches/ocean. Some people like the big city life and some people like the small town. Personally I prefer the suburbs, it's quiet and between the big city and the country side - and we just got symmetrical fiber which is awesome for nerds like me.
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Old 09-03-2014, 03:36 PM   #39
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I am from around Lake Tenkiller and I can say that is some of the prettiest places I have ever been. (I lived in Western Washington for 20 years)
That is a pretty area - back in the day Tenkillers BBQ was a good place to eat, too bad it closed down. I also like going to Stillwell for the strawberry festival and Cherokee National Holiday during labor day weekend. I miss canoeing down the Illinois river too. And Missionary Ridge is an awesome sight in the fall with the trees changing colors - desert my @.SS I have no idea wut that fool is talking about. But I have since moved back to my Rez which is just as beautiful
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Old 09-03-2014, 04:11 PM   #40
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Oh, I don't want to hear about boring drives. Try the wide part of TX -- I-10 or I-20 to I-10. Just in case you needed a reference for infinity. There is a lot of pretty scenery, but you're in wall to wall trucks going 75mph. You don't dare look at the scenery.

Nashville to Cincinnati can be pretty grim too.
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