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Apache_Fancy_Shawl 04-02-2006 07:42 PM

chamber's farm
 
Hello, was at chamber's farm last night for a so called pow-wow.
In my opinion, they needed to call it a white man trying to have a Native American gathering. sevral of the dancers were walking across the circle with food and drinks, just so they didn't have to go around the circle. they had people smoking joints at the circle, and drinking all kinds of alcohol. :sad_smile The drums had all of the dancers confused :confused: about the songs they were dancing to. they called grass, and gave them a fancy shawl, called fancy shawl, and gave them more of a duck & dive song. They put down a few dancers. One a Woman Grass Dancer. They said no problem, we welcome you into our circle with open arms, then chased her out and told her she was a disgrace to her family. They said no dancing bare foot in the circle, they had sevral people in there without shoes, and said they were okay. It was funny, the AD tried to line the women and the men by age, not category, your age. They had some young lady dancing in a prom dress that was just about see through, and a short shawl. I don't know how pow-wow's are out west and up north, but I was brought up, you don't cut across the circle, you don't eat in the circle. And you don't drink alcohol or smoke joints at pow-wow around the circle or any place on pow-wow grounds.

tipis 04-03-2006 02:05 AM

Did you complain or at least let the committe in on these problems? This dance has a checkered past and is at least better this year than it has been in the last 8 or so. But I do agree with you, it does need to improve.

hobbs49 04-03-2006 08:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tipis
Did you complain or at least let the committe in on these problems? This dance has a checkered past and is at least better this year than it has been in the last 8 or so. But I do agree with you, it does need to improve.

As a hobbs myself, I generally bail on threads where hobbs come under attack. It's easier to survive here :-) and anyway, who am I to try to say what's right and wrong. The culture isn't mine, I'm just trying to borrow a piece of it while I exist here. I grew up in the midwest and have been spectating, dancing and singing (or trying to) since about 1968 when I was but a wee lad. Until adulthood, most of my activity was at hobbs powwows. Once I started living out west, I got a lot more opportunity to attend native dances in CA, CO, WY, MO, MI, and now NC (lots of powwows in NC!). I've never been to the dance in question, but I will say, that even as a hobbs, if the dance doesn't meet my expectations (native or hobbs powwow); if they aren't even trying to do things right; if they have no clue; well, even I know when to leave. Now, if I can easily tell who's on the committee, I might make an effort to tell them why I'm leaving. However, I'm not likely to go too far out of my way to do that because if they really cared, they would have probably done a better job in the planning in the first place.

I will add that there is, in my mind, a difference between doing things wrong and doing things differently. I will admit that it seems that at some dances on the east coast, or at least NC and VA, I've seen some things done quite differently than I've ever seen before. But for the most part, I chalk that up to the old "the farther away, the more they stray" philosophy, meaning that the east coast is pretty far from the plains and thus those things that I've seen or heard of being done out there have undergone some change by the time they reach here.

I will also add here that at the NC and VA powwows that I've been at for the past couple of years that I've been here, I've never, and that's never, seen any drugs nor alcohol use anywhere near the circle. Heck, I hardly see any cigarette smoking even! So either it's very well hidden or not a problem as it seems to be in other locations.

Sorry for the ramble, but my point was really meant to be that regardless if it's a native powwow or a hobbs powwow, it can be done wrong. If you're not comfortable with what is happening, then I would suggest leaving or as Tipis above suggests, working with the committee to fix it.

Lazy Is Unacceptable 04-03-2006 11:05 AM

Hum...
 
I was there. Did not see any dancers cross the circle with food or drink, but there were some spectators, and the emcee called them down. Of course, I only have two eyes and may have missed seeing things you saw.

Did not see or smell any alcohol. Not saying it was NOT there, just didn't "see" it -- maybe I was sitting with a better crowd.

Danced all of Friday and Saturday, never smelled or saw anyone smoking pot. DID see some of the drummers, when the drum was in the center of the circle, smoking cigarettes, but not pot. As a matter of fact, didn't smell pot at all in or out of the circle.

The front AD put blankets out for drum songs and left them unattended...money blowing off the blankets and people (head man and other dancers) stopping to gather and put it back on the blanket. He apparently missed the woman at the front end of the circle (his end) with the 2 triangle swimsuit top going in the circle, but several women traditional dancers caught and got her out. I have seen him dance before, and he is fantastic. Ashamed not to see him dance.

The girl grass dancer -- she was a problem in November with rudeness to an elder during lineup for one of the grand entries. Paybacks can be hard and you never know when Creator will teach you that lesson.

I was disappointed during the Saturday fancy shawl that a couple of traditional women went in the circle to put down money, and then proceded to the east gate to "whoop and holler" over the song like white folks at a football game. I was just glad they were not of my nation. I was also disappointed in the jingle dress dancer. No fan, no footwork, no honoring the drum. She was young and will no doubt improve greatly.

Not all pow wows are going to be perfect. Those putting on a pow wow have no control over who shows up in the crowd or how people "perform" or "behave" when they get there. Some are rude, some are hateful, some are looking for an excuse to whine, some are looking to berate, and some, oh then there are those precious few, who go looking to dance for Creator. If you are there for the right reason, others will follow and this event will improve. Not addressing the issue when it happens and then putting this type message out on the web helps nothing, and what you claim (and what I claim) is only hearsay because there is no proof of it.

Negativity breeds negativity. Help instead of whine.

Ask yourself, what was YOUR contribution to this event? Did you put your best foot forward for Creator and for your people? Did you help anyone while you were there? If you failed in these areas, part of the blame for the event going the way it did is yours.

And yes, I ask myself these questions -- on a daily basis. It is a difficult way to live.

Lastly, if you get to an pow wow and do not like what is going on, PACK AND LEAVE!!! Nobody forces you to stay.

MayChe 04-03-2006 11:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Apache_Fancy_Shawl
Hello, was at chamber's farm last night for a so called pow-wow.
In my opinion, they needed to call it a white man trying to have a Native American gathering. sevral of the dancers were walking across the circle with food and drinks, just so they didn't have to go around the circle. they had people smoking joints at the circle, and drinking all kinds of alcohol. :sad_smile The drums had all of the dancers confused :confused: about the songs they were dancing to. they called grass, and gave them a fancy shawl, called fancy shawl, and gave them more of a duck & dive song. They put down a few dancers. One a Woman Grass Dancer. They said no problem, we welcome you into our circle with open arms, then chased her out and told her she was a disgrace to her family. They said no dancing bare foot in the circle, they had sevral people in there without shoes, and said they were okay. It was funny, the AD tried to line the women and the men by age, not category, your age. They had some young lady dancing in a prom dress that was just about see through, and a short shawl. I don't know how pow-wow's are out west and up north, but I was brought up, you don't cut across the circle, you don't eat in the circle. And you don't drink alcohol or smoke joints at pow-wow around the circle or any place on pow-wow grounds.

I was there and I will admit, during an intertribal I did smell something out of the ordinary in the circle. I totally put all the blame on the AD (not Clint, the other guy. I think his name is Rick Shawnee), who was also grabbing people to line them up for GE.

I wasn't confused by the songs. Some of them were pretty long, but other than that no problems.

The Shawl dancers got 2 songs, a regular song and a crow hop. Some of them didn't know what a crow hop was lol.

I don't know who the girl was with the prom dress (mom called it an After 5 dress) other than she's from Oklahoma and I think she came with some people from off the drum. They crowned her the Southeastern War Veteran Princess.

It was a weird experience but I really don't expect much from Chambers.

stomp 04-03-2006 03:01 PM

Chambers farm
 
Apache,

If you had asked about the place before you went, those of us who have gone could've told you not to waste your time going to a place that is like a cross between Holloween and Rainbow people fun fest.

Wakalapi 04-03-2006 03:09 PM

ROFL ... lining up women by age... bet that went over like a lead balloon.

MayChe 04-03-2006 09:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lazy Is Unacceptable
I was there. Did not see any dancers cross the circle with food or drink, but there were some spectators, and the emcee called them down. Of course, I only have two eyes and may have missed seeing things you saw.

Did not see or smell any alcohol. Not saying it was NOT there, just didn't "see" it -- maybe I was sitting with a better crowd.

Danced all of Friday and Saturday, never smelled or saw anyone smoking pot. DID see some of the drummers, when the drum was in the center of the circle, smoking cigarettes, but not pot. As a matter of fact, didn't smell pot at all in or out of the circle.

The front AD put blankets out for drum songs and left them unattended...money blowing off the blankets and people (head man and other dancers) stopping to gather and put it back on the blanket. He apparently missed the woman at the front end of the circle (his end) with the 2 triangle swimsuit top going in the circle, but several women traditional dancers caught and got her out. I have seen him dance before, and he is fantastic. Ashamed not to see him dance.

The girl grass dancer -- she was a problem in November with rudeness to an elder during lineup for one of the grand entries. Paybacks can be hard and you never know when Creator will teach you that lesson.

I was disappointed during the Saturday fancy shawl that a couple of traditional women went in the circle to put down money, and then proceded to the east gate to "whoop and holler" over the song like white folks at a football game. I was just glad they were not of my nation. I was also disappointed in the jingle dress dancer. No fan, no footwork, no honoring the drum. She was young and will no doubt improve greatly.

Not all pow wows are going to be perfect. Those putting on a pow wow have no control over who shows up in the crowd or how people "perform" or "behave" when they get there. Some are rude, some are hateful, some are looking for an excuse to whine, some are looking to berate, and some, oh then there are those precious few, who go looking to dance for Creator. If you are there for the right reason, others will follow and this event will improve. Not addressing the issue when it happens and then putting this type message out on the web helps nothing, and what you claim (and what I claim) is only hearsay because there is no proof of it.

Negativity breeds negativity. Help instead of whine.

Ask yourself, what was YOUR contribution to this event? Did you put your best foot forward for Creator and for your people? Did you help anyone while you were there? If you failed in these areas, part of the blame for the event going the way it did is yours.

And yes, I ask myself these questions -- on a daily basis. It is a difficult way to live.

Lastly, if you get to an pow wow and do not like what is going on, PACK AND LEAVE!!! Nobody forces you to stay.

Well excuse me! LOL no your entitled to your own opinion. I was the jingle dancer and I was doing old style. That is why I did not have a fan and was not doing fancy steps. Also I'm not that young for your info.

We were honoring a fancy shawl dancer becuz she is insecure about here dancing. Excuse us for doing that also.

MayChe 04-03-2006 09:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lazy Is Unacceptable
I was there. Did not see any dancers cross the circle with food or drink, but there were some spectators, and the emcee called them down. Of course, I only have two eyes and may have missed seeing things you saw.

Did not see or smell any alcohol. Not saying it was NOT there, just didn't "see" it -- maybe I was sitting with a better crowd.

Danced all of Friday and Saturday, never smelled or saw anyone smoking pot. DID see some of the drummers, when the drum was in the center of the circle, smoking cigarettes, but not pot. As a matter of fact, didn't smell pot at all in or out of the circle.

The front AD put blankets out for drum songs and left them unattended...money blowing off the blankets and people (head man and other dancers) stopping to gather and put it back on the blanket. He apparently missed the woman at the front end of the circle (his end) with the 2 triangle swimsuit top going in the circle, but several women traditional dancers caught and got her out. I have seen him dance before, and he is fantastic. Ashamed not to see him dance.

The girl grass dancer -- she was a problem in November with rudeness to an elder during lineup for one of the grand entries. Paybacks can be hard and you never know when Creator will teach you that lesson.

I was disappointed during the Saturday fancy shawl that a couple of traditional women went in the circle to put down money, and then proceded to the east gate to "whoop and holler" over the song like white folks at a football game. I was just glad they were not of my nation. I was also disappointed in the jingle dress dancer. No fan, no footwork, no honoring the drum. She was young and will no doubt improve greatly.

Not all pow wows are going to be perfect. Those putting on a pow wow have no control over who shows up in the crowd or how people "perform" or "behave" when they get there. Some are rude, some are hateful, some are looking for an excuse to whine, some are looking to berate, and some, oh then there are those precious few, who go looking to dance for Creator. If you are there for the right reason, others will follow and this event will improve. Not addressing the issue when it happens and then putting this type message out on the web helps nothing, and what you claim (and what I claim) is only hearsay because there is no proof of it.

Negativity breeds negativity. Help instead of whine.

Ask yourself, what was YOUR contribution to this event? Did you put your best foot forward for Creator and for your people? Did you help anyone while you were there? If you failed in these areas, part of the blame for the event going the way it did is yours.

And yes, I ask myself these questions -- on a daily basis. It is a difficult way to live.

Lastly, if you get to an pow wow and do not like what is going on, PACK AND LEAVE!!! Nobody forces you to stay.

Well excuse me! LOL no your entitled to your own opinion. I was the jingle dancer and I was doing old style. That is why I did not have a fan and was not doing fancy steps. Also I'm not that young for your info.

We were honoring a fancy shawl dancer becuz she is insecure about her dancing. Excuse us for doing that also. Dang can't we have alittle fun? Geez...

kgirl7 04-03-2006 10:28 PM

Yeah I was about to say, no fan and overly fancy footworks sounds like old-style jingle to me. I like seeing old-style jingle, it's very graceful.

suthernwaterbird 04-04-2006 08:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TradJingle
I was there and I will admit, during an intertribal I did smell something out of the ordinary in the circle.

Quote:

they had people smoking joints at the circle, and drinking all kinds of alcohol.
It was called Hennessey Tobacco. Not weed, dope, crack or anything else you guyz are assuming. Just because you don't recognize a scent, dosen't mean it's drugs. I was singing with the host drum, and not 1 person was doing drugs, or drinking while singing. Now whatever happened after the powwow was over, I don't believe that is anyone's business but the singers'.
Quote:

The drums had all of the dancers confused about the songs they were dancing to. they called grass, and gave them a fancy shawl, called fancy shawl, and gave them more of a duck & dive song.
I'm sorry that you feel this way, perhaps our head singers judgment was compromized by the drugs he was taking.
Also, I request on how you may have confused a Women's Fancy song composed for Women's Fancy, with a Duck-n-Dive Song. It must have been the speakers, right? Or do you even know the difference?

MayChe 04-04-2006 10:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by suthernwaterbird
It was called Hennessey Tobacco. Not weed, dope, crack or anything else you guyz are assuming. Just because you don't recognize a scent, dosen't mean it's drugs. I was singing with the host drum, and not 1 person was doing drugs, or drinking while singing. Now whatever happened after the powwow was over, I don't believe that is anyone's business but the singers'.

I'm sorry that you feel this way, perhaps our head singers judgment was compromized by the drugs he was taking.
Also, I request on how you may have confused a Women's Fancy song composed for Women's Fancy, with a Duck-n-Dive Song. It must have been the speakers, right? Or do you even know the difference?

I wasn't implying that it was drugs, I just never smelled anything like that before.

suthernwaterbird 04-04-2006 10:48 PM

I know you weren't, the other person was.

Lazy Is Unacceptable 04-05-2006 08:51 AM

It did not happen. I danced 3 of the 4 sessions (1-Friday and 2-Saturday) -- the AD never asked for lining up by age, only by category. On Sunday, even though I did not dance, I DID videotape as they were lining up and clearly have the AD only lining up people by category.

Again I ask, those whining, what was YOUR contribution to this event?

Comanche74 04-05-2006 12:56 PM

Chamber's farm
 
I was unable to make the spring powwow...However.

Chamber's Farm is improving as I have seen over the four years I have attended as a spectator....If these things come about that people are doing things wrong..maybe instead of whining you should confront the people or tell the commitee what you say you saw...If someone is not dancing correctly give them advice instead of ridicule....perhaps they are just learning or dancing old style.....if they are learning how... will they learn if we as a people don't teach them the way????
And yes there are people there that do not understand the customs and etiquette of the powwow. But if you are there for the right reason then help someone who might be a little off track.... I am planning to start dancing there as soon as I complete my NTD regalia as I don't want to go into the circle incomplete....

In 2001 I found my Biological father (after 27 years of not knowing) and discovered that he is of Comanche blood. The Cherokee comes from my mother. A friend of mine (Alan) dances Fancy here at Chamber's and has for a long time. So he is helping me with what I need, He was taught by Wayne Moon (Kiowa) as many who attend should know Wayne, he is a great man who has a lot of knowledge....Alan is helping me rediscover what I did not know about being a dancer since I had no previous experience inside the circle and until recently didn't know the extent of my Comanche heritage.

My mother had always taken me to Powwow's as a kid in Asheville, N.C., Missouri and Iowa only as spectator. But never danced...regalia is expensive! (especially for 6 kids).

So now that I have the resources and I know my heritage I will dance and teach my sons the heritage. I dance not for myself but for the creator and my family and those ancestors long since past....this is one way I stay connected to them.

Chamber's is a good place as long as the good people lead by example. Most people can't travel the powwow circuit so Chamber's is a good place that they can attend and maybe the only powwow that they can attend....So why not help those that are there; to learn...help one another... remember:

Mitaku Oyasin
(We are all related)

Kiwehnzii 04-05-2006 01:50 PM

Sounds like a swell time. I'm going next year! Ayeeee.

I find it strange that a man of Commanche and Cherokee heritage uses Lakota language at the end of his post. Not criticizing. Just a bit unusal to me, okay?

Have fun next year!!!!

Comanche74 04-05-2006 02:11 PM

Chamber's farm
 
I know it's a bit strange to use Lakota,
But unfortunately I don't know Comanche as I just met my dad who is in Az. long distance commute. And the little Cherokee I know my grandpa taught me but haven't been around others that speak it to keep it up...I'm losing it before I get a chance to use it...but relearning through some books...and audio....living and working in Tallahasse doesn't allow me to interact with other Indians. I spend most of my time with my kids when not working...
My family has been away from the Cherokee traditions since being in military and moving around a lot.

Anyway Chamber's is a fun place. I like it.
Thanks

MayChe 04-05-2006 05:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lazy Is Unacceptable
It did not happen. I danced 3 of the 4 sessions (1-Friday and 2-Saturday) -- the AD never asked for lining up by age, only by category. On Sunday, even though I did not dance, I DID videotape as they were lining up and clearly have the AD only lining up people by category.

Again I ask, those whining, what was YOUR contribution to this event?

Not that I was whining, but I feel that my contribution to the event was me even showing up.

tipis 04-06-2006 01:27 PM

If you just showing up is the thing, then you do not know what a dance is all about and it is more than just one dancer showing up.

You were not charged addmission to this dance or camping fees. If this were a full blown competition dance, which is not a Powwow to me, then you might get away saying making that statement.

How many dances have you been too? :eyebrow2:

Wojapi4Me 04-06-2006 01:49 PM

Isn't this the same pow wow where they spread that guy's ashes in the arena a few years ago? How is it dancing on a graveyard?


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