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-   -   Women On Drum? (http://forums.powwows.com/f45/women-drum-68654/)

AmigoKumeyaay 06-20-2014 01:42 PM

Women On Drum?
 
MIDNIGHT SUN POWWOW ALASKA
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White Powwow Dancer 06-20-2014 07:51 PM

By the way they would be shunned in Ojibwe areas.

milehighsalute 06-21-2014 03:46 AM

that would NEVER happen in tnbe southwest,,,,,,but canada and alaska they do things different

Zeke 06-23-2014 06:47 PM

Meh.

When in Rome...

Joe's Dad 06-23-2014 08:11 PM

Saw an all-women drum sitting next to Blacklodge up in the Northwest. Kenny Scabbyrobe didn't complain.

When in Rome or Washington state...

Grits & Beans 06-23-2014 09:41 PM

an all women's drum were denied entry to a powwow in st. paul several years back. they in turn sued the university and we now have one less winter powwow.

Zeke 06-24-2014 11:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Grits & Beans (Post 1601601)
an all women's drum were denied entry to a powwow in st. paul several years back. they in turn sued the university and we now have one less winter powwow.

1. That sucks.
2. I would have let them in.
3. Nobody forces anyone to dance when they sing.

Yes, yes. I get all the gender role stuff and all of the traditionalist BS claiming that adhering to such things is what makes us "who we are."

I reject that.

GROWING is what makes us who we are and you cannot control where that goes.

What I've never understood is why that threatens anyone or why short-sighted Neanderthals insist that's assimilation.

It's just not.

WhoMe 06-27-2014 07:04 PM

The Pacific Northwest has had all women drums since the 70's and maybe sooner. I asked a good friend of mine who has been singing a long time if this was always a part of their culture? He said, "no" but it is now accepted. So if you're going to travel to a Pacific Northwest powwow, expect to see all women drums as it is their way.

wanjica_the_one 06-28-2014 12:13 AM

I would like to see "Moontime Lady Warriors."

Elo Janis 01-15-2015 04:29 AM

I have come across a number of articles recently about how a number of our traditional beliefs and behavior are either changing or disappearing permanently in Native American circles. This has led myself and many others to wonder if this is a signal that Native American life is slowly coming to an end.
Things that were once considered sacred, are now nothing but memories to most of us older traditionalists. In their place, the current younger generation have been taking liberties with the handling of our traditions. While change is good for the most part, a mere 'update' would suffice in most of these situations as there are just some things that really have no need to be altered in any manner.
Using the fact that her advanced age and accumulated wisdom made her one of the last of the last of traditionalists, my Unci told a number of us many of the things that were meant to remain as they were, never to be changed regardless of how the world was changing at a rapid pace all around us and how people would start to view the remainder of the Native population.
In order for our way of life to remain as close to what it was before the European Invasion and subsequent American Holocaust, it was up to the elders, now more than ever, to instill in us the original practices of our tribe so that our way of life would remain as close as possible to what it has always been.
One of the issues Unci made perfectly clear was that in the Sioux tribe, women would forever be forbidden from leading a drum group. Instead, their role at powwows was to sing only back up, and of course, wechagalante at the end of honoring songs.
Her reasoning was that there always had been and always would be set in stone traditional roles that Indian men and women adhered to in order for our way of life to continue on for generations, unfazed by the white mans culture of change. She based this on the premise that since we never had a universally accepted written language as our primary form of communication, the only way to pass down our traditions for the survival of our descendants depended on verbal story telling.
Since the beginning of our history, it had always been the male's duty to be the primary story teller of their group and that women would not be expected to participate in any of these story telling sessions. So it just seemed logical that since many of our songs reflect the state of our tribe, it would be the men who would take the responsibility to pass down these thoughts and words. For that reason alone I personally do not think it is a good idea to have exclusively women's drum groups. Even though music of all venues are changing constantly, Native American music is one style of music that would best be left as it was handed down to us.
And for Zeke and all the others who think that our much honored and always respected 'traditionalist views and values' are nothing but BS, may I remind you that had it not been for traditionalists holding their ground against many who think they have a better way of doing things among us, the Native American customs many of us hold close to our hearts today would not exist. WE would NOT exist. Show respect not only for your elders, the heart of our existence, but for yourself as well. By dissing those who gave their traditionalist lives so YOU might have the pleasure of being here shows great disrespect for the grandparents and parents who put you on this Earth.
Instead of attending a powwow, the dancers of this generation would be holding raves with singing what were once traditional native songs in hip hop, Blues and rap style renditions. Our regalia would be nothing more than thongs and bra tops for women covered by transparent mini skirts and the men would be making their rounds in pants sagging under butt cheeks, backwards baseball hats and cigars being the costume of the day.
I understand progress and a need to change who we are to fit the standards imposed by white led media and a handful of trendy, of the moment style of fashionistas like the KKK...Kim, Khloe and Kourtney.
But is this what we want our descendants to do to carry on our once proud and beautiful culture? Is this what we are descending into? If so, what is the point?
And please, for respect for elders and respect for your race, refrain from stating traditionalists are nothing but bull****. Had it not been for our ancestors' traditional bull****, none of us would be here today living what many would call decent, respectable lives. Lives that were made possible because some people cared enough to make sure traditional ways and beliefs are all we have to remember a life that is now gone...a life that might soon be totally and completely gone with rap stations playing the newest remix of Sioux favorites just as Kanye and Fifty cent would do them.

bahnisiain 08-01-2015 07:55 PM

about 2 years ago I went to a native social that had two drums, one was a traditional drum (all male) and the other was an all female drum. the all female drum was a lot better than the all male drum. one of the elders who attended the social, a full blood Lakota and vet, went to the all female drum and offered tobacco to the drum and the ladies. did not do the same to the all male drum.

Jack Anderson 08-04-2015 02:55 AM

I was at the Kalispel Pow Wow the last three days and there was quite a few women drummers with and without the boys. They were fantastic!

lclbcook 12-07-2017 12:29 PM

Hope this never comes around my area...smh

LeviScott39 04-26-2018 12:12 PM

Things are changing with gender equality.

ches 09-25-2018 09:55 AM

Seen lady drums at Rockport, Ind this year “dragonfly wing” ; cookeville, Tenn last year; one other somewhere. They do a good job. Not sure they are supposed to touch a drum though. So far, as a man, I am not dancing women’s buckskin————-yet LOL

Joe's Dad 09-25-2018 06:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ches (Post 1637305)
Seen lady drums at Rockport, Ind this year “dragonfly wing” ; cookeville, Tenn last year; one other somewhere. They do a good job. Not sure they are supposed to touch a drum though. So far, as a man, I am not dancing women’s buckskin————-yet LOL

I'm probably going to get in trouble, but I'm going to ask...

Were there any Natives attending?

ches 09-25-2018 06:54 PM

Natives there?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Joe's Dad (Post 1637309)
I'm probably going to get in trouble, but I'm going to ask...

Were there any Natives attending?

Joe’s notha I am pigment challenged and East of the father of waters so our pow wows are 90% populated by pigment challenged people with varying amounts of the genetically perfect indigenous denizens of turtle island.

Joe's Dad 09-26-2018 08:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ches (Post 1637310)
Joe’s notha I am pigment challenged and East of the father of waters so our pow wows are 90% populated by pigment challenged people with varying amounts of the genetically perfect indigenous denizens of turtle island.

I try to be politically correct, also.

I use the description, 'complexion challenged'. :laughing:

ches 09-26-2018 09:19 PM

Like
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Joe's Dad (Post 1637318)
I try to be politically correct, also.

I use the description, 'complexion challenged'. :laughing:

Joe’s dad. I like you. That makes two people I have said that to. The other is my wife’s retina specialist at Vanderbuilt Eye Institute. He is a very business-like Korean by heritage. I like your “complexion challenged”. Hope you don’ t mind if I stick with my pigment challenged. Also I suffer from the disorder that woman drums do not have to worry about but Europeans suffer. That is follicularly challenged. I understand that the creator blessed the Native with Hair that lasted as long as he did.

ches 09-30-2018 10:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joe's Dad (Post 1637309)
I'm probably going to get in trouble, but I'm going to ask...

Were there any Natives attending?

We are in the Kentucky area of states 5 to 7% might look like a native. The rest look like me Scottsirish and who knows what else besides some mixed Native in there. Then, there will be 7 to 10 African heritage persons. My feeling is that probably half to two thirds of non-native appearing have Native in them and their spirit draws them there to help in their humble way to perpetuate the culture.


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