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Old 08-24-2011, 11:57 AM   #1
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Freedmen Decision Ruled Proper

http://news.yahoo.com/second-largest...011650136.html
YAHOO! NEWS

Second-largest U.S. Indian tribe expels slave descendants

By Steve Olafson | Reuters – 13 hrs ago


OKLAHOMA CITY (Reuters) - The nation's second-largest Indian tribe formally booted from membership thousands of descendants of black slaves who were brought to Oklahoma more than 170 years ago by Native American owners.
The Cherokee nation voted after the Civil War to admit the slave descendants to the tribe.
But on Monday, the Cherokee nation Supreme Court ruled that a 2007 tribal decision to kick the so-called "Freedmen" out of the tribe was proper.
The controversy stems from a footnote in the brutal history of U.S. treatment of Native Americans. When many Indians were forced to move to what later became Oklahoma from the eastern U.S. in 1838, some who had owned plantations in the South brought along their slaves.
Some 4,000 Indians died during the forced march, which became known as the "Trail of Tears." "And our ancestors carried the baggage," said Marilyn Vann, the Freedman leader who is a plaintiff in the legal battle.
Officially, there are about 2,800 Freedmen, but another 3,500 have tribal membership applications pending, and there could be as many as 25,000 eligible to enter the tribe, according to Vann.
The tribal court decision was announced one day before absentee ballots were to be mailed in the election of the Cherokee Principal Chief.
"This is racism and apartheid in the 21st Century," said Vann, an engineer who lives in Oklahoma City. Spokesmen for the tribe did not respond when asked to comment.
The move to exclude the Freedmen has rankled some African American members of Congress, which has jurisdiction over all Native American tribes in the country.
A lawsuit challenging the Freedman's removal from the tribe has been pending in federal court in Washington, for about six years.
As a sovereign nation, Cherokee Nation officials maintain that the tribe has the right to amend its constitutional membership requirements.
Removal from the membership rolls means the Freedmen will no longer be eligible for free health care and other benefits such as education concessions.
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Old 08-24-2011, 12:56 PM   #2
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You know, this is a public board and my identity isn't difficult to discern. I, nearly universally, make someone upset and/or worried about my public perception whenever I offer an opinion on this issue.

Oh, well.

This is dumb.

For approximately 6k people, you have just invited the Feds to "assist" you (pending Fed court case which, likely, was ONLY pending this internal decision) in determining precisely who your members are. In sum, you're begging someone to actually define an area of "limited sovereignty," rolling the dice that you'll be empowered instead of limited.

Sure, we've gotten away with it before. Gaming, car tags, tobacco taxes, etc., are all examples of either areas where positive legal precedent has been set or negative precedent enforcement has been ignored.

Why ignored? In many cases, Native casinos prey upon Natives (nobody cares about that). In many cases, the fee and taxation issues impact only states who possess not the ability (for a variety of reasons) to effectively enforce matters. Answer? Convenience and $$$.

But this Federal case, for every tribe, opens the Pandora's Box of what is -- or is not -- an American Indian, retroactively, within a jurisdiction that actually has the power (limited sovereignty, recall?) and $$$ to make it stick, all for a maximum and likely HIGHLY inflated impact of adding 25k members (making you STRONGER unless this is about entitlements) to your ranks.

Plus, there's just the hypocrisy of the whole idea. These folks traveled with, lived amongst, married into (come on, be intellectually honest), and otherwise were accepted by the tribe for generations. NOW, some Cherokees are upset because it makes their slice of any internal/external service pie smaller? Or, even better, is this to purify the bloodline?

BLECH.

1. I wonder what folks would think if the United States decided to retroactively make the Irish non-citizens?

2. Or, determined that anyone whose ancestors arrived here on ships stacked as cordwood are no longer citizens because they, you know, "never really were, anyway?"

Somehow, I think that would be -- correctly -- universally scorned.

I guess, theoretically, someone could say that the Cherokee never wanted the Freedman with or in the tribe. That's not impossible but, were it the case, why did they bring the population with them?

If they accepted their presence then, they're duty bound to do so, now: even if some don't like it.

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Old 08-24-2011, 02:05 PM   #3
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Ahhhh, just because my great grandfather loved huckleberry pie does not mean I love it.

In fact, I love apple pie, and i do not want to share it, and since I can only think about apple pie, that is all I can think about, and I do not want to share it, so the more people I can get to leave this picnic, that means the less people I have to share my pie with. Who cares about the Lemonade or the goat bbq, its all about the pie to me. And I am not worrying about tomorrow, if I eat all the pie today, I will be happy today, I will deal with tomorrow when it gets here. Today is all that matters, and pie.
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Old 08-24-2011, 02:21 PM   #4
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Originally Posted by iowa_boy View Post
ahhhh, just because my great grandfather loved huckleberry pie does not mean i love it.

In fact, i love apple pie, and i do not want to share it, and since i can only think about apple pie, that is all i can think about, and i do not want to share it, so the more people i can get to leave this picnic, that means the less people i have to share my pie with. Who cares about the lemonade or the goat bbq, its all about the pie to me. And i am not worrying about tomorrow, if i eat all the pie today, i will be happy today, i will deal with tomorrow when it gets here. Today is all that matters, and pie.

pie
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Old 08-24-2011, 02:37 PM   #5
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Old 08-24-2011, 02:39 PM   #6
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And people always say, "Pie are squared!"
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Old 08-24-2011, 02:43 PM   #7
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And people always say, "Pie are squared!"
Square Pie!
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Old 08-24-2011, 03:01 PM   #8
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Chili Pie
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Old 08-24-2011, 03:27 PM   #9
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Chili Pie
dangit, now I'm hungry
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Old 09-01-2011, 05:06 PM   #10
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ya'll just wrong for that now...lol!!
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Old 09-01-2011, 08:47 PM   #11
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I think we -- starting with Iowa Boy -- did a GREAT job, with metaphor, of using ridicule to point out how incredibly DUMB this is. :)
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Old 09-01-2011, 11:22 PM   #12
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Oh No,Zeke, please don't misunderstand me, I am new, I know it takes a bit to get to know one another in this genre, I was merely teasing, ya'll with your pie , whether square or round, and then the addition of the In-famous, free-toe pie, you posted at a point when I had a rumbly in my tumbly, and. it was bad for me, in a giggly way....LOL....and at the same time, I agree, a wonderful job was done with the metaphor by all participants, ....LOL, I'm beginning to like the humor I find here...you guys make me giggle.....
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Old 09-02-2011, 01:18 AM   #13
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Still the biggest bunch of CRAP since Clinton tried to make us believe a Hummer isn't infidelity, at least the Hummer he was getting. And the biggest screw job since Roosevelt took the rivers.
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Old 09-10-2011, 02:36 AM   #14
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Freedmen Roles

http://http://youtu.be/ATvGEAVThro

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Old 09-10-2011, 02:49 AM   #15
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2,800 out of 300,000. Hmmm.

Didn't that happen with the Cabezon Band a few years back? Not the Freedmen, but expelling tribal members?
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Old 09-14-2011, 04:34 AM   #16
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http://www.washingtonpost.com/nation...LPK_story.html


Cherokees told to take back slaves’ descendants


By Associated Press, Published: September 13

TULSA, Okla. — A federal order for one of the nation’s largest American Indian tribes to restore voting rights and benefits to about 2,800 descendants of members’ former slaves threw plans for a special election for a new chief into turmoil Tuesday.

The federal government sent the sternly-worded letter to the Cherokee Nation after it sent letters last week kicking the descendants out of the tribe and stripping them of benefits including medical care, food stipends and assistance for low-income homeowners.

The tribe also barred the descendants from voting in a Sept. 24 special election for principal chief. The Cherokee Supreme Court ordered the special election after it said it could not determine with certainty the outcome of a close and hotly contested June election between incumbent Chad Smith and longtime tribal councilman Bill John Baker. The results had flip-flopped between the two during weeks of counts and recounts. Baker had twice been declared winner, but so had Smith.

The federal government said that unless the descendants, known as freedmen, were allowed to vote, the upcoming election wouldn’t be valid.

“I urge you to consider carefully the nation’s next steps in proceeding with an election that does not comply with federal law,” Assistant Secretary for Indian Affairs Larry Echo Hawk wrote in letter Friday to acting Chief S. Joe Crittenden. “The department will not recognize any action taken by the nation that is inconsistent with these principles and does not accord its freedmen members full rights of citizenship.”

Crittenden said the special election would take place as scheduled.

“The Cherokee Nation will not be governed by the (Bureau of Indian Affairs),” he said. “We will hold our election and continue our long legacy of responsible self-governance.”

The election has drawn national interest because while the tribe is based in Tahlequah, many of its 300,000 members live outside Oklahoma.

The freedmen have asked a federal judge to restore their voting rights before the special election, and a hearing is planned next week in federal court in Washington.

The tribe never owned black slaves, but some individual members did. They were freed after the Civil War, in which the tribe allied with the Confederacy. An 1866 treaty between the tribe and the federal government gave the freedmen and their descendants “all the rights of native Cherokees.”

More than 76 percent of Cherokee voters approved a 2007 amendment removing the freedmen and other non-Indians from the tribal rolls, but no action was taken until the tribe’s Supreme Court upheld the results of that special election last month. Cherokee leaders who backed the amendment, including Smith, said the vote was about the fundamental right of every government to determine its citizens, not about racial exclusion.

But the Department of the Interior said Tuesday that it still believes the expulsion is unconstitutional because it violates the 1866 treaty.

Marilyn Vann, president of the Descendants of Freedmen of the Five Civilized Tribes, said she hopes the federal order will result in the election being delayed.

“The freedmen people still have rights in the tribe such as voting,” Vann said Tuesday. “We’ll have our day in court.”
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Old 09-14-2011, 11:26 AM   #17
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http://www.washingtonpost.com/nation...LPK_story.html


More than 76 percent of Cherokee voters approved a 2007 amendment removing the freedmen and other non-Indians from the tribal rolls...
Kind of complicates the "who's NDN and who isn't" argument a little bit, doesn't it?
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Old 09-14-2011, 12:03 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NorthofAda
Kind of complicates the "who's NDN and who isn't" argument a little bit, doesn't it?
Only if they became "non-Indians" by virtue of the amendment.

Before that, it would have been pretty simple: if you're on the tribal roll, you're an Indian.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AmigoKumeyaay
Acting Chief S. Joe Crittenden: "The Cherokee Nation will not be governed by the (Bureau of Indian Affairs)."
WRONG.

1. As simply as I can put this, the Cherokee Nation is tugging on Superman's cape.
2. As politely as I can put this, that highlights an intelligence vacuum.

Did anybody else see this coming?

Last edited by Zeke; 09-14-2011 at 12:33 PM.. Reason: Fix Jim Croce lyric.
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Old 09-14-2011, 12:14 PM   #19
HUUUUUUUUUH!
 
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I like pie......
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Old 09-14-2011, 12:16 PM   #20
Sg̱aaga g̱uu hla.
 
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Interesting how the neither side used the term fiduciary duty. One would think that the duty is present and requires to be carried out by virtue of the treaty and custom and practice.
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