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Old 09-14-2011, 12:22 PM   #21
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Fiduciary pie.

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Old 09-14-2011, 12:30 PM   #22
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Now you're getting it Zeke...lol... we truck out that term every time we take on INAC no DIAND.. wait...AAND... yes that's it now...AAND. It all blurs into a yes you do, no we don't debate.
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Old 09-14-2011, 05:49 PM   #23
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Treaty of 1866

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/44516027.../#.TnEFsE_ZdUy

Cherokee Indians: We are free to oust blacks

US government wants second-largest Indian tribe to recognize as citizens 2,800 descendants of slaves that were held by Cherokees



updated 9/14/2011 9:00:20 AM ET 2011-09-14T13:00:20

OKLAHOMA CITY The nation's second-largest Indian tribe said on Tuesday that it would not be dictated to by the U.S. government over its move to banish 2,800 African Americans from its citizenship rolls.


"The Cherokee Nation will not be governed by the BIA," Joe Crittenden, the tribe's acting principal chief, said in a statement responding to the U.S. Bureau of Indian Affairs.

Crittenden, who leads the tribe until a new principal chief is elected, went on to complain about unnamed congressmen meddling in the tribe's self-governance.

The reaction follows a letter the tribe received on Monday from BIA Assistant Secretary Larry Echo Hawk, who warned that the results of the September 24 Cherokee election for principal chief will not be recognized by the U.S. government if the ousted members, known to some as "Cherokee Freedmen," are not allowed to vote.

The dispute stems from the fact that some wealthy Cherokee owned black slaves who worked on their plantations in the South.

By the 1830s, most of the tribe was forced to relocate to present-day Oklahoma, and many took their slaves with them. The so-called Freedmen are descendants of those slaves.

After the Civil War, in which the Cherokee fought for the South, a treaty was signed in 1866 guaranteeing tribal citizenship for the freed slaves.
The U.S. government said that the 1866 treaty between the Cherokee tribe and the U.S. government guaranteed that the slaves were tribal citizens, whether or not they had a Cherokee blood relation.

The African Americans lost their citizenship last month when the Cherokee Supreme Court voted to support the right of tribal members to change the tribe's constitution on citizenship matters.

The change meant that Cherokee Freedmen who could not prove they have a Cherokee blood relation were no longer citizens, making them ineligible to vote in tribal elections or receive benefits.

Besides pressure from the BIA to accept the 1866 Treaty as the law of the land, the U.S. Department of Housing and Urban Development is withholding a $33 million disbursement to the tribe over the Freedmen controversy.

Attorneys in a federal lawsuit in Washington are asking a judge to restore voting rights for the ousted Cherokee Freedmen in time for the September 24 tribal election for Principal Chief.
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Old 09-14-2011, 09:05 PM   #24
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In sum, the Feds hold all the cards.

Gee, who reported that YEARS ago? :)
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Old 09-16-2011, 01:03 PM   #25
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It's STILL a load of CRAP

My grandmother said it like this.

"When we as a people and a nation (meaning Cherokee) take on the same atrocities, and sins of the whites, then we have no other option but to make right the very wrongs we complained about. When we were taken from our lands and place in boundaries, we were at least still in our nation. Our place was to stand beside the blacks in their oppression, because we knew first hand what was done to them, and then we did it to them ourselves. It is only right that we bring them into our tribe as a welcomed member, because we brought them into our encampments, as a slave. They did for us the things that we made them, it is only right that we offer them a chance to be a part of us. We brought them here without their consent, we made a life for then none of them would have chosen, we mixed their bloodlines by our lust for strange flesh, and we now have a chance to offer some sort of peace to their ancestors and descendants. We should have known better, we watched our men die in battle, our elders and women and children slaughtered, if we do nothing to make right, in even the slightest, then we have no room to complain of the atrocities that we have faced ourselves."
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Old 09-20-2011, 11:46 PM   #26
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And, as predicted...

Cherokees cave...

So, knowing this was the likely endgame, how intelligent was it to light the fire? (I'm thinking "not very.") All that has been effectively proven is who actually runs the show and it's NOT the Indians.

We knew that already.

The leviathan will only stand for so much annoyance before waking...
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Old 09-21-2011, 11:02 AM   #27
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Excuse my ignorance about Cherokee politics, but:

What started the whole "kick the Freedmen out" issue to begin with? I'm not talking about pies; I mean the official reasoning. Why, almost 150 years after the 1866 treaty did the status of the Freedmen become an issue for the Cherokee? Was it all of a sudden? Has the issue been simmering since 1866? Were the Freedmen specifically targeted by the constitutional changes, or were they collateral damage in a general constitutional "clean up?"

Just curious.
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Old 09-23-2011, 01:02 AM   #28
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Excuse my ignorance about Cherokee politics, but:

What started the whole "kick the Freedmen out" issue to begin with?

"$$$."

It truly does distill to pie and the size of the slices.

Less slices means more pie per slice.
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Old 03-18-2013, 07:13 AM   #29
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Old 03-18-2013, 07:33 AM   #30
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Old 03-18-2013, 11:27 AM   #31
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Quote:
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...In a lot of cases you only have to be 1/4 blood which is not asking much in my opinion...
The Cherokee work from roll lineage. In theory, you can be 1/∞ blood but have ancestors exist on one of the few inherently flawed rolls and you're Cherokee.

From above: "After the Civil War, in which the Cherokee fought for the South, a treaty was signed in 1866 guaranteeing tribal citizenship for the freed slaves.

The U.S. government said that the 1866 treaty between the Cherokee tribe and the U.S. government guaranteed that the slaves were tribal citizens, whether or not they had a Cherokee blood relation."

Sum? The Freedmen, by criteria, are as Cherokee as anyone else in the tribe. In the California cases you mention -- likely via leadership's legal wrangling devoted to money -- those expelled do NOT meet criteria for tribal membership.

It's not the same thing at all.

1. The Freedmen ARE tribal members by definition.
2. Those expelled you mention are NOT.

Do you know why "nobody cares?"

Because there's no argument to be had.
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Old 03-18-2013, 11:33 AM   #32
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Old 03-18-2013, 12:13 PM   #33
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Thumbs up

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Old 03-18-2013, 01:52 PM   #34
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I'm already off the scale

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Old 03-19-2013, 08:23 AM   #35
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Whats the Buzz tell me what's a happening??

Lol

So whats the deal here I only can read what Zeke says...

I do enjoy reading his retorts but when they are not accompanied by the original post its like watching somebody play tennis by themselves!!
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Old 03-19-2013, 09:31 AM   #36
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Whats the Buzz tell me what's a happening??

Lol

So whats the deal here I only can read what Zeke says...

I do enjoy reading his retorts but when they are not accompanied by the original post its like watching somebody play tennis by themselves!!
What happened to 'anewbeginning'? She/he had 9 posts and erased 8 of them!
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Old 03-19-2013, 11:00 AM   #37
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I guess I have that effect on people?
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Old 03-19-2013, 01:45 PM   #38
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Old 03-19-2013, 01:47 PM   #39
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Old 03-19-2013, 03:35 PM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by anewbeginning88 View Post
It wasn't that. You didn't seem very open to discussion, kinda lika you had already made your mind up. With new developments in the case it should be open to discussion, you came off like a douchey grumpy old man so I said f*** it
As I said: I have that effect on people.

It's called being right.

New development? Only if the Feds cease to control tribes through the BIA.
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